Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can we please go back to the topic? The lack of response makes me think a lot of people don’t have enough understanding about this.

Because trans women are women, they should play women’s sports. Basic human rights here. Not much to debate. Sorry not sorry.

How do you know they are women?

That’s the big question. Did Caitlin Jenner only become a transgender woman once other people knew she was one? Or was she a transgender woman even back when she won a gold medal at the Olympics in the decathlon under the name Bruce Jenner? Back then, when she had all of the physical advantages of having the male physiology, would it have been a-okay for her to complete against women? Where do we draw the line?

The existential questions of her identity then aside, high level athletic competitions like Olympics have rules about hormone levels, so the answer is no.

For high school sports, I think it's worth asking what the purpose of the competition is, and whether that changes how we feel about trans athletes. I think the answer there is that high school sports should not be centered around strict competition like that Olympics and should err on the side of encouraging participation without those kinds of requirements.

High school teams that cut people are focused more on being competitive than on encouraging participation. If someone is biologically male, then you’re not excluding them from participating in sports by having them compete against other biological males. They don’t have to be on the women’s teams to participate. Putting them on the women’s team is about recognizing their gender, but we don’t organize sports by gender. We organize them by the two most dominant biological sexes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This just in!!

You can love and respect someone, and want them to have dignity and safety, but doing so doesn’t mean having to give them everything they want, or that it is a good thing for everyone to have what they want, at all times.

Also: Even though someone does not agree with everything you believe, that does not make them hateful or a bigot.

The major problem I see is the definition of “woman” being changed and erased.

I also don’t think it is a coincidence that every person I know who wants transwomen competing in women’s sports has never played a sport themselves. It’s easy to tell other people what to do when you have no skin in the game and never have.

Is it not telling that the people who tend to be the most vocal and act so entitled about these things are transwomen and not transmen? Is it just coincidence that men, particularly white men, are accustomed to being heard and getting their way? Is it just a coincidence that a much higher percentage of transwomen identify as “lesbian” than typically found among cis women?

+1. I voted for Biden. I want people to have equal rights. But I also played hockey from age 5 until I went to college. In high school, I did a coed development program and oh boy. That was a very unsafe concept. I could have been severely injured if an 18yo guy decided not to go easy on my 15yo petite self. And I was one of the top players on my boarding school team and was recruited by Div 1 schools before I unfortunately got injured my junior year.

Welcome to America, 2021. The boys’ feelings take precedence over the girls’ feelings/safety/rights.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No society in history has prospered by elevating trans people. It’s bad for the group.

Non-western societies have allowed there to be a third gender, which is sort of catchall for all the gender nonconforming, but seems the most fair. Still a challenge for sports, but in most cases it would work out.

Non-western failed states.

I don’t see the need for this bill. In my surely unpopular opinion, way too much of the public conversation is spent on this fringe issue.

Is it not telling that the people who tend to be the most vocal and act so entitled about these things are transwomen and not transmen? Is it just coincidence that men, particularly white men, are accustomed to being heard and getting their way? Is it just a coincidence that a much higher percentage of transwomen identify as “lesbian” than typically found among cis women?

Kind of lost me here. Not sure this is correct. And, what does color have to do with it? There are lots of transwomen of color.

Anonymous wrote:This just in!!

You can love and respect someone, and want them to have dignity and safety, but doing so doesn’t mean having to give them everything they want, or that it is a good thing for everyone to have what they want, at all times.

Also: Even though someone does not agree with everything you believe, that does not make them hateful or a bigot.

The major problem I see is the definition of “woman” being changed and erased.

I also don’t think it is a coincidence that every person I know who wants transwomen competing in women’s sports has never played a sport themselves. It’s easy to tell other people what to do when you have no skin in the game and never have.

Is it not telling that the people who tend to be the most vocal and act so entitled about these things are transwomen and not transmen? Is it just coincidence that men, particularly white men, are accustomed to being heard and getting their way? Is it just a coincidence that a much higher percentage of transwomen identify as “lesbian” than typically found among cis women?

+1. I voted for Biden. I want people to have equal rights. But I also played hockey from age 5 until I went to college. In high school, I did a coed development program and oh boy. That was a very unsafe concept. I could have been severely injured if an 18yo guy decided not to go easy on my 15yo petite self. And I was one of the top players on my boarding school team and was recruited by Div 1 schools before I unfortunately got injured my junior year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of the arguments about sports are clearly fearmongering. Renee Richards played women's tennis over 40 years ago, with some success. Did that lead to a surge in men "pretending" to be transgender women in order to win tennis tournaments? Of course not. Yes, there are likely to be a more transgender women athletes at various levels as transgender people become more accepted in society, but there will never be a large number. The idea that men or boys will "fake" being transgender in order to win trophies is ridiculous.

No one thinks boys are going to fake being trans to win a trophy. That’s ridiculous and not what people are concerned about.
But There aren’t many people at the highest levels of sports.
There is only one winner in many sports. There only has to be one.

Look what’s happened on CT high school track and field.....female trans athletes are dominating. I believe the olympics has a testosterone threshold.....perhaps something like that should be implemented.

NCAA requires hormone therapy. CT does not require it.

But let's put things in perspective. There are two trans athletes in CT track and field that people complain about. Two. Has anyone even asked how many trans athletes compete and how the rest of them place? No.

They won because they are males. That is outrageous. I don’t care if there’s two or two thousand.

I'd bet money that those guys would not have decided they're girls if they knew they wouldn't be allowed to race track against girls.

Anonymous wrote:No society in history has prospered by elevating trans people. It’s bad for the group.

Non-western societies have allowed there to be a third gender, which is sort of catchall for all the gender nonconforming, but seems the most fair. Still a challenge for sports, but in most cases it would work out.

They won because they are males. That is outrageous. I don’t care if there’s two or two thousand.

This is happening in other places, as well. This just happens to be the most egregious one--so far.

I agree with PP that trans women will not be a problem in bathrooms, etc. The problem could be with men who are not trans but may claim that as a defense. But, as PP says, it is already illegal and I don't foresee it being that much of a problem. But, I'm sure that defense could be used from time to time--likely unsuccessfully.

And, changing the bodies of kids is troubling. After watching Sleeping Beauty, DD talked incessantly about her "golden curls." FWIW, she did not have golden curls and I didn't dye her hair in order for her to have them.
What adults choose to do is different.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of the arguments about sports are clearly fearmongering. Renee Richards played women's tennis over 40 years ago, with some success. Did that lead to a surge in men "pretending" to be transgender women in order to win tennis tournaments? Of course not. Yes, there are likely to be a more transgender women athletes at various levels as transgender people become more accepted in society, but there will never be a large number. The idea that men or boys will "fake" being transgender in order to win trophies is ridiculous.

No one thinks boys are going to fake being trans to win a trophy. That’s ridiculous and not what people are concerned about.
But There aren’t many people at the highest levels of sports.
There is only one winner in many sports. There only has to be one.

Look what’s happened on CT high school track and field.....female trans athletes are dominating. I believe the olympics has a testosterone threshold.....perhaps something like that should be implemented.

NCAA requires hormone therapy. CT does not require it.

But let's put things in perspective. There are two trans athletes in CT track and field that people complain about. Two. Has anyone even asked how many trans athletes compete and how the rest of them place? No.

They won because they are males. That is outrageous. I don’t care if there’s two or two thousand.

So many things about this don’t make sense.

If innate and immutable gender identity is what makes someone a man or woman, then why all the medicalization and plastic surgery?

I understand why transwomen want surgery to “pass” or look like their ideal version of themselves. But if gender is innate, they are women no matter what, right? Regardless of surgery or hormones? Am I, a cis woman, entitled to plastic surgery to enhance my flat chest and decrease bone mass in my jawline so that I can be “the woman I was meant to be?”

I’m not worried about trangendered people taking advantage of restrooms to commit crimes that are already illegal. I don’t think the “equality” act is going to result in significant numbers of boys identifying as girls just to get top spots in sports.

My daughter is a competitive swimmer. She has put in thousands of hours of practice and I have encouraged her. We have taken for granted that she she will compete against other females - if she was competing against males then of course she would not have a chance at winning or a scholarship. If she works this hard all of her life only to get beat by a biological male, then no I am not ok with it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of the arguments about sports are clearly fearmongering. Renee Richards played women's tennis over 40 years ago, with some success. Did that lead to a surge in men "pretending" to be transgender women in order to win tennis tournaments? Of course not. Yes, there are likely to be a more transgender women athletes at various levels as transgender people become more accepted in society, but there will never be a large number. The idea that men or boys will "fake" being transgender in order to win trophies is ridiculous.

No one thinks boys are going to fake being trans to win a trophy. That’s ridiculous and not what people are concerned about.
But There aren’t many people at the highest levels of sports.
There is only one winner in many sports. There only has to be one.

Look what’s happened on CT high school track and field.....female trans athletes are dominating. I believe the olympics has a testosterone threshold.....perhaps something like that should be implemented.

NCAA requires hormone therapy. CT does not require it.

But let's put things in perspective. There are two trans athletes in CT track and field that people complain about. Two. Has anyone even asked how many trans athletes compete and how the rest of them place? No.

Anonymous wrote:What about women’s prisons? Some men will take advantage, rape will go up.

Oh dear Lord the excuses never end!! You obviously don't know the first thing about trans women, and you sure as hell don't care about prisoners.

What about women’s prisons? Some men will take advantage, rape will go up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All of the arguments about sports are clearly fearmongering. Renee Richards played women's tennis over 40 years ago, with some success. Did that lead to a surge in men "pretending" to be transgender women in order to win tennis tournaments? Of course not. Yes, there are likely to be a more transgender women athletes at various levels as transgender people become more accepted in society, but there will never be a large number. The idea that men or boys will "fake" being transgender in order to win trophies is ridiculous.

No one thinks boys are going to fake being trans to win a trophy. That’s ridiculous and not what people are concerned about.
But There aren’t many people at the highest levels of sports.
There is only one winner in many sports. There only has to be one.

Look what’s happened on CT high school track and field.....female trans athletes are dominating. I believe the olympics has a testosterone threshold.....perhaps something like that should be implemented.