Anonymous wrote:This thread has helped me to understand that most of the people pushing for long-term DL (perhaps forever DL) lack the intelligence to have gainful employment outside of the house and/or are socially stunted, possibly sociopaths, for who isolation is welcome.

I...I love you.

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Anonymous wrote:^Give me my tax money back and I’ll educate my kids on my own. Dh and I each pay 10k+ in state taxes and more than half of that goes to the schools.

Well, sweetie, not everyone can do that.

Do you want to just shut down public schools entirely because you can homeschool?

DP here, but this is basically the argument the "you don't want to parent your kids" people are making, that any decent parent SHOULD be able to spend every day focused on hands-on involvement in their kid's education, and any flaws in DL are due to parental failure. I don't think they understand that this is an argument against public schools.

Right that’s my point.

The logical endpoint to their argument is shutting down public schools and putting them all out of jobs.

Ironic, eh?

You don’t need to spend 8 hours a day to keep kids up in school. A few hours every night will do.

And what, pray tell, will my child do during the day?

I do have a job, you know.

There is child care for parents that are required to go to work.

What do you do with them now?

Oh yeah of course — the teachers won’t teach now and call us lazy, but it’s fine for childcare workers to take care of the kids, right? Just offload what the teachers don’t want to do.

At least we’re all being honest now.

Actually, FCPS teachers are 80% white and by definition making a good salary, for all their whining.

Vs. childcare workers, who are often black and brown and get paid a fraction of teachers.

It’s much uglier than what you are suggesting. Teachers think their lives are worth more. Wonder why?

In related news, guess which group got the vaccine ticket?

It kinda makes me want to find a BLM March when I piece it together.

One of the absolutely ugliest aspects of this is seeing the outright disdain that presumably white pro-DL people have for mostly black and brown childcare workers. There have been disgusting racist posts about childcare workers from pro-DL posters here on DCUM (which Jeff deleted quickly).

There is so much evidence about how much institutional racism there is in public schools, how teachers treat black and brown kids worse, etc. The pro-DL posts here on DCUM have provided some awful insight into that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the “you just don’t want to parent your kids” posters are:

1) teachers who want to work from home longer....and look I get it, I’m a teacher. It was pretty nice working from home in the spring. I’m a private school teacher so I’m back now

Or

2) hyper competitive mommies who a few years back were bragging on their EBF or sleep trained babies

I actually have two students in an online private high school and I do not believe for a second that 2) is broadly realistic at all. I have been a learning coach for my two children for two years before the pandemic. I know well how this arrangement is not right for many families. I work from home, part time, and have the education and time to provide learning coach support to my children. They are also highly motivated, like DL, do activities outside of school that require some flexibility in their schedules, and this works for them, but it would not be right for every solid student. We also move for my DH's work every few years, so we like the consistency of keeping them at one school with a strong curriculum while we move from one city to another. It's a lifestyle and it's not a judgement that one student thrives in it and one does not. I would be the first person to say that it is not right for everyone.

Not the PP, but I don't think the PP was talking about a parent who is supporting a student who opted for a private DL arrangement. There are plenty of reasons why DL might work for some students, especially for motivated students, including moves, physical or medical issues, extensive extra curricular activities, etc. You choose that option to fit a child's interests and lifestyle. In addition, you have opted in to being a learning coach and committed to provide that support.

DL as provided in public school is not giving families a choice. It tends to not work well for younger learners and older students lacking in intrinsic motivation. I've got one kid for who it works fine and another who struggles. It is more about the kid than the parent.

For anyone interested in the expectations for an online learning coach, I urge you to look at some examples, like the one below. These spell out the difference between being an involved parent and being a learning coach for an online learner. Public school DL uses a DL model without any choice for parents and without providing support for parents in their role as learning coach. Perhaps if public schools had done a better job assisting parents in their roles as learning coaches or providing resources to obtain a third-party learning coach for those who need them, DL would be much more effective. If private online DL schools acknowledge that DL is not effective without a learning coach, why do we pretend that public DL would be?

https://www.k12.com/parent-student-resources/succeed-with-online-learning/learning-coach.html

Anonymous wrote:I think the “you just don’t want to parent your kids” posters are:

1) teachers who want to work from home longer....and look I get it, I’m a teacher. It was pretty nice working from home in the spring. I’m a private school teacher so I’m back now

Or

2) hyper competitive mommies who a few years back were bragging on their EBF or sleep trained babies

I actually have two students in an online private high school and I do not believe for a second that 2) is broadly realistic at all. I have been a learning coach for my two children for two years before the pandemic. I know well how this arrangement is not right for many families. I work from home, part time, and have the education and time to provide learning coach support to my children. They are also highly motivated, like DL, do activities outside of school that require some flexibility in their schedules, and this works for them, but it would not be right for every solid student. We also move for my DH's work every few years, so we like the consistency of keeping them at one school with a strong curriculum while we move from one city to another. It's a lifestyle and it's not a judgement that one student thrives in it and one does not. I would be the first person to say that it is not right for everyone.

Oh man I have been defending teachers like crazy during the pandemic but my faith is wavering.

I totally understand a teacher refusing to work in a small classroom where social distancing is challenging, where ventilation isn’t ideal, where there is no guarantee people are properly quarantining after exposure, etc. I cannot argue with the idea that a teacher shouldn’t have to risk death to educate my child. I think it’s safe to open schools, but I don’t blame teachers for wanting to be cautious.

But when they say that distance learning is fine and if kids are struggling it’s the fault of the parent, their motives become suspect. If they want any credibility, they need to acknowledge that distance learning needs to end as soon as possible.

And it’s totally irrelevant why a parent wants their kid to go back to school. Maybe it is just because the parent wants the kid out of their hair. That doesn’t mean the kid shouldn’t go back! It’s just a cheap shot and a red herring.

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Anonymous wrote:I work out of the house full time. So does my husband. My kids are 11 and 14 - they handle distance learning by themselves. Every day. Even though they are “doing well”, I, like most, realize the material they are covering and their methods of assessment are pretty sub par with DL. I want my kids back in school ASAP.
I’m parenting them exactly as I would have during “normal” times, if they were in person in school. So please please stop with the nonsense that people only want kids in school because they can’t/don’t want to parent them, or are sick of them, or want someone else to parent them. It’s just a stupid baseless so called argument.

Sure, as soon as entitled parents stop calling teachers lazy and endlessly bleating that they just want to work in their pajamas.

x1 million

I think the “you just don’t want to parent your kids” posters are:

1) teachers who want to work from home longer....and look I get it, I’m a teacher. It was pretty nice working from home in the spring. I’m a private school teacher so I’m back now

Or

2) hyper competitive mommies who a few years back were bragging on their EBF or sleep trained babies

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Anonymous wrote:As long as we can also stop the "teachers are lazy" posts.

You’re unwilling to do your jobs.

Teachers are doing their kids. Their jobs have change and instead of complaining, they adapted. You now need to adapt.

I need to adapt? No.

I’m an essential worker who has been working this entire time. Unlike you, her teachers have been working in person. That means she can attend school and I can earn money to put a roof over her head.

My job cannot be done from home.

What do you propose I do, since you apparently know everything and it’s all so easy?

Have your spouse or partner or family members or friends provide childcare. If you have made life choices not to live in proximity.with any of those people, use some of the money earned from your oh so important in person job to hire childcare. Reduce other expenses as needed to facilitate this. If you are truly low income (not house poor, etc by choice), financial aid options exist if you ivestigate them.

You're welcome.

Surely you understand that this is not always a matter of “life choices”. Is it a life choice to have parents who fall ill or die? Is it a life choice to have to move for a job offer when you are laid off? Or to have two working parents in an economy explicitly designed around two-income families? Have you met... people? I guess if you are middle income and made the bad choice of having one set of parents die and the other dealing with a chronic health condition, you just shouldn’t have kids. Then, of course, there would be almost no kids and those no need for schools at all!

Oh, and my friends can’t watch my kids because they also have jobs and kids and are in the same bind I’m in.

What planet do you live on?

THANK you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The craziest thing about this sentiment is that the people that say it think they are protecting teachers but they are actually insulting them.

Absolutely. Add to that when teachers say it, and say that they are doing their jobs in accordance with their jobs descriptions as if this is perfectly fine for the kids, they sound uncaring, detached, and ill-informed. Every education expert says that in person education is preferred, so what does that say about individual teachers who say DL is equivalent?

+2

I understand why many professionals want to WFH. I actually chose a career and made a series of key job decisions in order to ensure WFH because it was really important for my family and my own mental health.

But I think teachers arguing that they can do their jobs *just as well* from home is going to backfire. I do actually think that for older grades, there are administrators right now looking at remote options for at least some aspects of middle school and high school. But I think what that will mean is not that all high school teachers now have the option of working from home. It will mean the same thing it means in my field -- fewer teachers overall and greater competition for remote teaching jobs because the population who can fill those jobs is so much larger.

And for younger grades where DL is clearly a terrible alternative to in-person, I can't imagine arguing that the years of in-person skills ECE and early elementary teachers have, which are essential to providing a rich learning environment for kids PK-5, are simply not needed. Do teachers really understand what that would mean if it were true? (it's not true) ECE and early elementary are generally the teachers I admire the most because it's the job I know I would find most challenging. I know how these grades get denigrated by people who don't understand education, but anyone who actually understands know that the job these teachers do paves the way a child's entire learning experience and can play a huge role in a child's personality, demeanor, and attitude toward school. I wish that teacher's unions had used Covid as an opportunity to get higher pay and more respect for this cohort specifically, instead of arguing the obviously insane idea that Kindergarten and 1st or 2nd grade can be done remotely. It's crazy! I don't believe a single parent or teacher of kids in those grades who say DL has been "just as good" or is "working out fine". That's either delusion or a blatant lie.

Anonymous wrote:The craziest thing about this sentiment is that the people that say it think they are protecting teachers but they are actually insulting them.

Absolutely. Add to that when teachers say it, and say that they are doing their jobs in accordance with their jobs descriptions as if this is perfectly fine for the kids, they sound uncaring, detached, and ill-informed. Every education expert says that in person education is preferred, so what does that say about individual teachers who say DL is equivalent?

The craziest thing about this sentiment is that the people that say it think they are protecting teachers but they are actually insulting them.