Anonymous wrote:

Then she will hate engineering school and working as an engineer. If she's actually passionate about engineering she won't care.

DP here.

You might be shocked to know that many engineers did not graduate from TJ. Hard to believe, isn't it? And, some engineers actually lead a balanced life. I know this for a fact. I am married to one. Masters from what is widely considered the top engineering school in the country.

Engineering schools tend to be overwhelmingly male and the majority of students are white and asian. The PP said that her daughter wants to be an engineer. TJ is just a sample of what her future college experience and workplace will be like along with what the workload is like in engineering school.

I'm an engineer myself and while I didn't attend TJ, I attended a top engineering school that the average person doesn't know by name, but other engineers highly respect. Top engineering schools, have some "normal" people, and a lot of shall we say, unusual and colourful people. Yes there are engineers who live a balanced life, and quite a few who are incredibly passionate about their work and never leave the campus they work at.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I predict not. I believe the root of the issue is lack of interest, so a lottery, or even an open admissions policy, won't fix that.

What you don't understand is that many highly qualified URMs don't want to attend TJ because they think they won't fit in. DD is a straight A student in AAP at a TJ feeder and she refuses to apply to TJ because she thinks she will not fit into the culture (a culture of cheating, racism, few minorities, few girls, etc...). This is sad considering that she loves STEM and wants to be an engineer.

Then she will hate engineering school and working as an engineer. If she's actually passionate about engineering she won't care.

Yes. Good luck in the real world for the above girl. All this talk about how one has to be in a "diverse" environment, "diverse" environment is essential for schools etc. and then turns around and says I don't want to attend that school because I don't like dealing with Asians. So the only minority group that counts for the right "diversity" is the one with the "favored" minority.

Computer programmer who works with a ton of engineers here - I was actively discouraged away from MIT back in the day for environment concerns (though at that time it was just about few girls). Majored in computer science at a small liberal arts school where despite being the only girl in the major some years I was always treated with respect. Have always done fine in the work force. Engineering doesn't have to be a pressure cooker.

I didn't read the whole thing but I wanted to ask whether people think TJ is even a "goal" for high-achieving URMs here? I am not as familiar with the NOVA population but in NYC, where I have many friends who teach or are school administrators, I know that for many URM families there (who are Dominican and/or Puerto Rican, so the population in NOVA is a little different) they are very Catholic and the end goal or dream is not the STEM public magnets but rather getting a scholarship or aid or saving enough for getting into Catholic school. To them, that is the American Dream or end goal, not Stuy or Bronx Science. My friend taught in Queens and that is what all the top kids in her classes and their families talked to her about, not Stuy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I predict not. I believe the root of the issue is lack of interest, so a lottery, or even an open admissions policy, won't fix that.

What you don't understand is that many highly qualified URMs don't want to attend TJ because they think they won't fit in. DD is a straight A student in AAP at a TJ feeder and she refuses to apply to TJ because she thinks she will not fit into the culture (a culture of cheating, racism, few minorities, few girls, etc...). This is sad considering that she loves STEM and wants to be an engineer.

Then she will hate engineering school and working as an engineer. If she's actually passionate about engineering she won't care.

THIS IS THE PROBLEM

The lottery sounds like an excellent idea. There are plenty of qualified kids who don’t get selected for this school. Having a GPA cutoff is a great way to make sure kids are up to snuff. Now parents will have less opportunities to game the system.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The way I see it, the current holistic process yields an exceptionally strong student body which results in the #1 school in America. We shouldn't just throw the entire process away because it's not perfect. We should just tweak it to achieve the desired results. The problem is lack of diversity, right? Why don't we do the current admissions process to identify the first 300 or so admittees. Then, assess the racial composition of that group, and then make the remaining selections with an eye toward balancing out the racial composition. At least this way there's more of a chance that we'll capture those prodigies out there who really need a school like TJ. If there's a legal issue with taking race into account, then we could just hold a lottery for the applicants who didn't make the first cut.

+1

If the goal is to increase URM enrollment while still aiming for being #1 in the country, FCPS should keep the current process but admit all of URM applicants who pass the first-round test. It will increase URM enrollment and still have enough slots left for high-achieving applicants.

This new proposal will only increase White enrollment and decrease Asian percentage. TJ will become irrelevant quickly. It will be just another Chantilly academy but located in Alexandria. Meanwhile wealthy high schools such as Maddison, McLean, Oakton, and Langley will get a boost. I can't believe the school board and SP are that stupid.

Yeah it will just drive up test scores and real estate in McLean and the Oakton/Vienna area. Those schools will start to look like the elite high schools in the bay area (e.g., Gunn, with it's stellar academics, high pressure, and affluent white/Asian populations), where they have no true magnet system.

Anonymous wrote:The way I see it, the current holistic process yields an exceptionally strong student body which results in the #1 school in America. We shouldn't just throw the entire process away because it's not perfect. We should just tweak it to achieve the desired results. The problem is lack of diversity, right? Why don't we do the current admissions process to identify the first 300 or so admittees. Then, assess the racial composition of that group, and then make the remaining selections with an eye toward balancing out the racial composition. At least this way there's more of a chance that we'll capture those prodigies out there who really need a school like TJ. If there's a legal issue with taking race into account, then we could just hold a lottery for the applicants who didn't make the first cut.

+1

If the goal is to increase URM enrollment while still aiming for being #1 in the country, FCPS should keep the current process but admit all of URM applicants who pass the first-round test. It will increase URM enrollment and still have enough slots left for high-achieving applicants.

This new proposal will only increase White enrollment and decrease Asian percentage. TJ will become irrelevant quickly. It will be just another Chantilly academy but located in Alexandria. Meanwhile wealthy high schools such as Maddison, McLean, Oakton, and Langley will get a boost. I can't believe the school board and SP are that stupid.

Anonymous wrote:

Then she will hate engineering school and working as an engineer. If she's actually passionate about engineering she won't care.

DP here.

You might be shocked to know that many engineers did not graduate from TJ. Hard to believe, isn't it? And, some engineers actually lead a balanced life. I know this for a fact. I am married to one. Masters from what is widely considered the top engineering school in the country.

DP here. Ditto.

But I think changing the admissions to TJ will ruin the school and make it fall drastically in national rankings which has disastrous effects on grants and our ability to justify our taxes, so I’d rather have a bunch of stressed out Asians at the school and keep my kids at their base school.

Not racist here. Just noting that the numbers will suck.

It’s not worth destroying the crown to let the people touch it.

Statistically a lottery doesn’t guarantee higher URM enrollment. It will increase white enrollment- and when that happens it will be huge lawsuit that every asian will chip in for.

The problem with the application problem isn’t that TJ is difficult to get into. It’s hard to get to and it’s hard to put in the time and energy to helping your kids at the school. A lot of parents are happy with their home schools. If they weren’t- they would move to another county.

Then she will hate engineering school and working as an engineer. If she's actually passionate about engineering she won't care.

DP here.

You might be shocked to know that many engineers did not graduate from TJ. Hard to believe, isn't it? And, some engineers actually lead a balanced life. I know this for a fact. I am married to one. Masters from what is widely considered the top engineering school in the country.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I predict not. I believe the root of the issue is lack of interest, so a lottery, or even an open admissions policy, won't fix that.

What you don't understand is that many highly qualified URMs don't want to attend TJ because they think they won't fit in. DD is a straight A student in AAP at a TJ feeder and she refuses to apply to TJ because she thinks she will not fit into the culture (a culture of cheating, racism, few minorities, few girls, etc...). This is sad considering that she loves STEM and wants to be an engineer.

Then she will hate engineering school and working as an engineer. If she's actually passionate about engineering she won't care.

Yes. Good luck in the real world for the above girl. All this talk about how one has to be in a "diverse" environment, "diverse" environment is essential for schools etc. and then turns around and says I don't want to attend that school because I don't like dealing with Asians. So the only minority group that counts for the right "diversity" is the one with the "favored" minority.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The most beneficiary is white according to the graph which they showed us. Not black or Hispanics.

Yep. It’s to help white people game the system.

And screw over blacks and hispanics and Asians all at the same time.

Why we can’t make a humanities magnet for them is beyond me.

Oh you mean a school that’s separate? That sounds rational. As long as it’s equal too though right? smdh

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The most beneficiary is white according to the graph which they showed us. Not black or Hispanics.

Yep. It’s to help white people game the system.

And screw over blacks and hispanics and Asians all at the same time.

Why we can’t make a humanities magnet for them is beyond me.

Whites can't stomach that Asians are excelling above and beyond white kids.

False. We’re cool with it actually. (See how I just spoke for my entire race because apparently we are all homogenous and align our thoughts and opinions according to skin color?
In all seriousness though, my family is completely fine with it. We’re a bit too lazy to compete at that level of intensity. And I think the prize should go to the kids/families who are dedicated and committed to doing the work. You’ve earned it. Period.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I predict not. I believe the root of the issue is lack of interest, so a lottery, or even an open admissions policy, won't fix that.

I think it will increase white kid enrollment, which is the real goal.

That may actually be one potential outcome—though I would counter that it isn’t the “real goal”. It is interesting that white kids seem to be underrepresented at TJ (when measured against the percentage of the white population in fcps, but I’ve not heard noise about that. I think people just accept that not everyone finds the pressure cooker environment all that appealing). But for those who ARE interested, at least the five zones thing may give kids from all races who are in low socio-economic areas a better shot at being admitted. I wouldn’t worry too much about an explosion in white students admitted over other groups because I would say if the application process yields a disproportionate number of whites applying they will stop that in its tracks and figure out how to mitigate that potential PR disaster before the lottery.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The most beneficiary is white according to the graph which they showed us. Not black or Hispanics.

Yep. It’s to help white people game the system.

And screw over blacks and hispanics and Asians all at the same time.

Why we can’t make a humanities magnet for them is beyond me.

Whites can't stomach that Asians are excelling above and beyond white kids.