Anonymous
Post 09/18/2020 14:36     Subject: ST Math
My child gets a "must do/may do" board and ST Math is on the "may do" side. After having used it twice this week, I decided I'd rather have her read or do a math workbook during her asynchronous time. She's doing all the required work and some of the optional work.
Anonymous
Post 09/18/2020 13:31     Subject: ST Math
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I emailed my child's teacher and cc'd the principal letting her know that my child is opting out of any ST Math, Imagine Reading and I-ready assignments. So freeing!


It's public school. It's not an al a carte menu.


It's on the optional side of my child's task board.


Actually, since they require our signature permitting them to access these 'extras," it is in fact a la carte menu.
Anonymous
Post 09/18/2020 13:28     Subject: Re:ST Math
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My daughter and her classmates in first grade love ST Math. Many of them have been mentioning it as a highlight of their day in their closing meeting. Of course it’s only the third day they’ve used it. Hopefully it stays fun for them.


Of course they like it - it is mindless clicking on a crazy penguin. But they also like ice cream for dinner and unlimited movie time. Did you look at it? Do you think it is adding to their understanding of math?


Take some time to understand Spatial Temporal reasoning and why ST Math was designed the way it is. If you think it's "Mindless clicking" you're the one who doesn't understand mathematics or how to develop conceptual understanding.


I am the PP you are responding to. I have a Ph.D., a degree in math, and have taught math at the doctoral level, so I think I know a little bit about math. The problem with ST math isn't the activities themselves, but in the adaptive part - it is either too slow or not working at all. And yes, I know every one of the activities has a purpose, like getting a kid accustomed to using a mouse/trackpad, etc. but they need to progress at a speed and with variety that keeps them engaged, not be so mindlessly repetitive it turns them off. It comes across as designed by a computer programmer who never saw children (and I am sure it was designed by "education specialists".)


the length of time spend on repetitive unstoppable animations and cut sequences seems to support that threory
Anonymous
Post 09/18/2020 13:02     Subject: Re:ST Math
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My daughter and her classmates in first grade love ST Math. Many of them have been mentioning it as a highlight of their day in their closing meeting. Of course it’s only the third day they’ve used it. Hopefully it stays fun for them.


Of course they like it - it is mindless clicking on a crazy penguin. But they also like ice cream for dinner and unlimited movie time. Did you look at it? Do you think it is adding to their understanding of math?


Take some time to understand Spatial Temporal reasoning and why ST Math was designed the way it is. If you think it's "Mindless clicking" you're the one who doesn't understand mathematics or how to develop conceptual understanding.


I am the PP you are responding to. I have a Ph.D., a degree in math, and have taught math at the doctoral level, so I think I know a little bit about math. The problem with ST math isn't the activities themselves, but in the adaptive part - it is either too slow or not working at all. And yes, I know every one of the activities has a purpose, like getting a kid accustomed to using a mouse/trackpad, etc. but they need to progress at a speed and with variety that keeps them engaged, not be so mindlessly repetitive it turns them off. It comes across as designed by a computer programmer who never saw children (and I am sure it was designed by "education specialists".)


Yes! Totally agree. The repetitiveness of simple material turns the kids off so it doesn’t matter what it is supposed to do - they’ve already lost the kids.

Signed, another PhD who understands math
Anonymous
Post 09/18/2020 12:49     Subject: Re:ST Math
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My daughter and her classmates in first grade love ST Math. Many of them have been mentioning it as a highlight of their day in their closing meeting. Of course it’s only the third day they’ve used it. Hopefully it stays fun for them.


Of course they like it - it is mindless clicking on a crazy penguin. But they also like ice cream for dinner and unlimited movie time. Did you look at it? Do you think it is adding to their understanding of math?


Take some time to understand Spatial Temporal reasoning and why ST Math was designed the way it is. If you think it's "Mindless clicking" you're the one who doesn't understand mathematics or how to develop conceptual understanding.


I am the PP you are responding to. I have a Ph.D., a degree in math, and have taught math at the doctoral level, so I think I know a little bit about math. The problem with ST math isn't the activities themselves, but in the adaptive part - it is either too slow or not working at all. And yes, I know every one of the activities has a purpose, like getting a kid accustomed to using a mouse/trackpad, etc. but they need to progress at a speed and with variety that keeps them engaged, not be so mindlessly repetitive it turns them off. It comes across as designed by a computer programmer who never saw children (and I am sure it was designed by "education specialists".)
Anonymous
Post 09/18/2020 12:39     Subject: ST Math
Anonymous wrote:It doesn't make sense to me that a 1st grader and an AAP 6th grader are both starting with the petals.


I can see everyone starting the same, but it should be adaptive. If the kids are flying though and immediately jump to the correct answers, the program should recognize it and advance until they slow down or have problems. I realize that's a huge ask for a $1.99 app, but ST math isn't a $1.99 app- it's a highly funded and purchased at district levels
Anonymous
Post 09/18/2020 12:28     Subject: ST Math
It doesn't make sense to me that a 1st grader and an AAP 6th grader are both starting with the petals.
Anonymous
Post 09/18/2020 10:41     Subject: Re:ST Math
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My daughter and her classmates in first grade love ST Math. Many of them have been mentioning it as a highlight of their day in their closing meeting. Of course it’s only the third day they’ve used it. Hopefully it stays fun for them.


Of course they like it - it is mindless clicking on a crazy penguin. But they also like ice cream for dinner and unlimited movie time. Did you look at it? Do you think it is adding to their understanding of math?


Take some time to understand Spatial Temporal reasoning and why ST Math was designed the way it is. If you think it's "Mindless clicking" you're the one who doesn't understand mathematics or how to develop conceptual understanding.


Different poster here but I agree it is mindless clicking and I do under the concept they were trying to achieve. I have a PhD in curriculum and development and my dissertation was test development. I’ve talked to many parents and regardless of the developers intent, it isn’t doing what they intended when the kids are this bored. It has become a measure of sustained attention not spatial temporal reasoning.
Anonymous
Post 09/18/2020 10:05     Subject: Re:ST Math
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My daughter and her classmates in first grade love ST Math. Many of them have been mentioning it as a highlight of their day in their closing meeting. Of course it’s only the third day they’ve used it. Hopefully it stays fun for them.


Of course they like it - it is mindless clicking on a crazy penguin. But they also like ice cream for dinner and unlimited movie time. Did you look at it? Do you think it is adding to their understanding of math?


Take some time to understand Spatial Temporal reasoning and why ST Math was designed the way it is. If you think it's "Mindless clicking" you're the one who doesn't understand mathematics or how to develop conceptual understanding.
Anonymous
Post 09/18/2020 09:30     Subject: ST Math
It is horrible and my kids hate it. I hate seeing my kid who loves math sit there and mindlessly click for an hr because it is so simple and nothing changes. The other reads a book while doing it while waiting for the penguin to walk across. They are so bored.
Anonymous
Post 09/18/2020 08:54     Subject: ST Math
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Mindless clicking would mean they’re just clicking and getting it wrong or hoping they get lucky. If they’re consistently getting it right and progressing, there is thinking involved.


Nope. My daughter, who is in 9th grade, took over the clicking and it still took almost an hour to get thru ONE "puzzle" iof the same exact thing, and she didn't miss any questions. That might be their marketing pitch but it's not the reality.


I played it last night- it took forever to get to the blocks. After the blocks, there are more petals. I think it's set to prevent a kid from advancing too fast and outpacing their classroom lessons. If you expect them to play for 20 minutes a week as part of a computer lab, that makes sense. If you want them to play for an hour on Mondays, and a half hour Tues-Thurs during their asynchronous blocks, it doesn't work
Anonymous
Post 09/18/2020 08:51     Subject: Re:ST Math
Anonymous wrote:Why are all you parents doing this with/for your kids anyway? You wouldn't be helping them if they were doing it at school.

I will supplement in other ways that are organic to our home life, but I'm not helping either my 5th or 2nd grader with ST math. The whole point is for them to be able to balance the logic and the math skills on their own. My second graders who is great and memorizing and following directions finds the logic portion/deciphering rules without words challenging, and my 5th grader who has great large concept skills finds the method easy but sometimes the skills hard.

Seems like that's the point of the program. To challenge kids to think a different way than their natural preference.


The "point" of the program is fine and good; my first impression was "oh, this is so clever." Unfortunately, the implementation is a freaking nightmare. It could have been a good program, but it is truly bad. Once you realize it has absolutely no value and will turn your kid away from math and school (and penguins), you will literally do anything just to make the dang penguin die. I am a huge rule follower, but I finally told the teacher the mindless repetition was not worth my the time suck it became. As another DCPS parent with way too many years of the ST Math hell under my belt, I think the ABANDON ALL HOPE poster was right about this one.
Anonymous
Post 09/18/2020 08:41     Subject: ST Math
Anonymous wrote:My theory is that the older FCPS laptops the younger kids got are slower and are registering correct clicks as wrong answers due to lag.


I think its this, plus the program uses a level of repetition that might be ideal for slower learners but frustrating for kids who already know the material PLUS some schools seem to have started everyone in first grade.
Anonymous
Post 09/18/2020 08:39     Subject: ST Math
Anonymous wrote:Dude if your kid is stuck on the petals it’s not a glitch- it’s that they haven’t mastered it. It’s not place value only, it’s estimating. Once they figure it out, they will move on.


No, the user interface sucks.
Anonymous
Post 09/18/2020 08:34     Subject: ST Math
My theory is that the older FCPS laptops the younger kids got are slower and are registering correct clicks as wrong answers due to lag.