This is why parents push for AAP. They don't want their kids distracted by these elements in the classroom. Fairfax had so many ESOL kids dumped in the schools that parents with high performing students need an outlet where that wont hinder their kid's learning experience.

My white kids were in LLIV in a school in which white kids are in the minority. Their classrs included high performing students who also happened to be ESOL or the first-generation children of immigrants. Their learning experience was enhanced by having these kids in their class. The kids are not "dumped" in the schools. They reside in the county and go to the assigned school.

I hope you aren't passing these values on to your kids.

Of course the purpose of the AAP isnt to boost high school scores but that doesnt preclude AAP from doing just that

Anonymous wrote:Where are all the Loudoun County gifted elementary students eventually going to high school? They all just be going to that one high school that made the list.

Seems like Fairfax County is turning out higher quality high schoolers than Loudoun which at least in part is due to AAP. What's the point of a great gifted program in elementary if it doesn't yield results in high schools?

And come on, the more wealth you have in an area, the better schools are. That is almost always true. So why does Loudoun not get the benefit of better schools than Fairfax even though they have higher average household income?

The point of programs like AAP is to provide kids who need more advanced work a place to learn. It isn't about boosting high school results. There are plenty of kids in FCPS who take AP and IB classes that were never in AAP and they do just fine.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If the rankings had anything to do with elementary gifted programs, perhaps they would. But alas, that is not the criteria on which US News and World Reports has based its high school rankings.

The rankings are very easily gamed, and Fairfax is better at gaming them than Loudoun. For those stats, AP classes and AP exams are the most important factor. AP participation, especially among URMs is ranked very heavily, and AP pass rates are not so heavily rated. So FCPS schools encourage a bunch of URMs to sit in the AP class and take the exam, even though they'll fail it, to boost their stats. AP classes are also open enrollment at FCPS, which boosts participation (but not necessarily pass rates). Other school systems require you to be recommended for the AP class to even be eligible to take it.

Yes, thank you!!

Anonymous wrote:

If the rankings had anything to do with elementary gifted programs, perhaps they would. But alas, that is not the criteria on which US News and World Reports has based its high school rankings.

The rankings are very easily gamed, and Fairfax is better at gaming them than Loudoun. For those stats, AP classes and AP exams are the most important factor. AP participation, especially among URMs is ranked very heavily, and AP pass rates are not so heavily rated. So FCPS schools encourage a bunch of URMs to sit in the AP class and take the exam, even though they'll fail it, to boost their stats. AP classes are also open enrollment at FCPS, which boosts participation (but not necessarily pass rates). Other school systems require you to be recommended for the AP class to even be eligible to take it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where are all the Loudoun County gifted elementary students eventually going to high school? They all just be going to that one high school that made the list.

Seems like Fairfax County is turning out higher quality high schoolers than Loudoun which at least in part is due to AAP. What's the point of a great gifted program in elementary if it doesn't yield results in high schools?

And come on, the more wealth you have in an area, the better schools are. That is almost always true. So why does Loudoun not get the benefit of better schools than Fairfax even though they have higher average household income?

Well, clearly it's because if this stellar AAP program you are all glowing and raving about all of the time. I've already answered your questions above and am not going to keep repeating myself if you cannot read.

Your post makes no sense. How can you look at McLean and Langley and know that wealth has a lot to do with their high marks but somehow that doesn't apply to the wealth in Loudoun? Those are only 2 high schools in Fairfax. What accounts for the others that made the list? According to your criteria Loudoun with it's greater wealth and fewer ELL should have more schools on the list than Fairfax but somehow doesn't.

And high school students in Fairfax don't just magically make stellar scores in high school to get ranked this high. These students have built their knowledge up to that point in the FCPS in elementary and middle schools.

Anonymous wrote:My dd was in AAP at Haycock and Longfellow and is in college now. Honestly, if I could go back, I wouldn’t have done it. They were pushed ahead for what? So they could take the same exact classes in high school as the kids who weren’t in AAP (with the exception of some math classes)? So they can feel smarter/superior/more capable than the general public and struggle with the idea that some things are still difficult, even when your ES teachers always told you that you guys were smarter than the gen ed kids? (Two actually did this on a regular basis) It all seemed great at the time to be getting something others were not, and she was honestly very bright and scored extremely high on everything...but the outcome was no different than it would have been in a regular classroom.

At Haycock this was (and probably still is) true that her experience and outcome was likely not that much different than staying in a general Ed classroom. But not every school is Haycock. In fact, most in FCPS are decidedly NOT Haycock, PP.
as the AAP teacher responder explained, her experience was night and day between gen ed and AAP bc kids were all at or above reading level, and were quick to catch in in math, were engaged learners, etc. I know this probably describes the gen ed AND AAP populations at Haycock, but.... yeah. That’s not universal.

An interesting article to add to this discussion, ironically found in Loudoun Now: https://loudounnow.com/2017/03/23/croll-the-truth-about-gifted-versus-high-achieving-students/

The Truth About ‘Gifted’ Versus High-Achieving Students

High achievers are students who perform at peak academic levels. They take the hardest classes and ace them all. They are tenacious. They have grit. Teachers love them because they eagerly engage with whatever material is presented in class. Peers admire their academic success and look up to them. High achievers often take on leadership roles in extracurricular activities. They play sports and an instrument and they are leaders in clubs. High achievers have excellent study skills and social skills and they go on to excel at elite colleges.

Gifted students, on the other hand, may or may not earn high marks in school depending on a host of factors including their interest in the subject being taught, their respect for the depth of knowledge the teacher possesses and even their level of physical comfort in the classroom. Gifted students often frustrate teachers because they don’t quite live up to their potential, especially in classes that are too easy for them. Gifted children often have poor executive function skills so they lose homework and don’t know how to study for exams. Many gifted children have few friends because of their esoteric interests. Sometimes these students feel so isolated that they become depressed … even suicidal. A surprisingly large number of gifted students drop out of high school and never make it to college, despite their high innate intelligence.

Anonymous wrote:Where are all the Loudoun County gifted elementary students eventually going to high school? They all just be going to that one high school that made the list.

Seems like Fairfax County is turning out higher quality high schoolers than Loudoun which at least in part is due to AAP. What's the point of a great gifted program in elementary if it doesn't yield results in high schools?

And come on, the more wealth you have in an area, the better schools are. That is almost always true. So why does Loudoun not get the benefit of better schools than Fairfax even though they have higher average household income?

Well, clearly it's because if this stellar AAP program you are all glowing and raving about all of the time. I've already answered your questions above and am not going to keep repeating myself if you cannot read.

Where are all the Loudoun County gifted elementary students eventually going to high school? They all just be going to that one high school that made the list.

Seems like Fairfax County is turning out higher quality high schoolers than Loudoun which at least in part is due to AAP. What's the point of a great gifted program in elementary if it doesn't yield results in high schools?

And come on, the more wealth you have in an area, the better schools are. That is almost always true. So why does Loudoun not get the benefit of better schools than Fairfax even though they have higher average household income?

Anonymous wrote:Loudoun county is currently the richest county in the U.S. according to U.S. News.

No reason they shouldnt have more top schools with their fancy gifted programs and all...

If the rankings had anything to do with elementary gifted programs, perhaps they would. But alas, that is not the criteria on which US News and World Reports has based its high school rankings.

I think you make a fair point in general that with a higher average HHI, Loudoun brings in more money as a county. However, you can't look at average HHI for an entire county and make assumptions about the demographics of the high schools in that county. You can, however, look at the ranking of McLean and Langley and know that wealth has a lot to do with why the graduation rates are so high, why the AP exam passage rates are so high, etc. because the vast majority of those students have parents who can afford tutors, test prep, and those schools have fewer ELL students. Loudoun does not have any equivalent high school like that in our county, where there is such a concentration of wealth that the number of kids from low income are so low.

Loudoun county is currently the richest county in the U.S. according to U.S. News.

No reason they shouldnt have more top schools with their fancy gifted programs and all...

Anonymous wrote:Fcps has a lot more poor/ELL kids then Loudoun...

That's true, and overall it has a much higher population than Loudoun. I don't think that's the point. The point is that FCPS has several areas where there is a concentration of wealth... Langley and McLean, for example, but they are not the only ones. Loudoun's demographics aren't arrayed the same way, so drawing a comparison between the two via these rankings doesn't make any sense.

Fcps has a lot more poor/ELL kids then Loudoun...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s look at results. Of the top 10 schools in VA, eight are in FCPS and only one is in LCPS. Given HHIs in Loudoun, LCPS under-performs.

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/virginia/rankings

Not really. FCPS has twice as many HS as Loudoun, and all of the schools ranked high on the list are from the most affluent areas in all of Virginia.

Kinda silly anyway, because the discussion was about elementary school gifted programs.

Those school rankings are based on factors that are heavily influenced by household income. As was pointed out, the wealthiest areas in VA are in FCPS. The same holds for MCPS in MD. LCPS serve rural areas in western Loudoun. Factors like graduation rates and AP exam numbers just won't be the same as wealthier areas. Really, though, that has nothing to do with the quality of education available. If anything, it just means that there is more competition in FCPS. Maybe that pushes and motivates some kids, maybe that's a bad environment for others. It definitely makes it harder to stand out for college applications.