Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You realize that well over half of Americans do not possess a bachelor’s degree, right?

OP. I know. I also don't personally know many people who fall in that category, so was just curious.

I don't think most people I know are aware that I haven't finished college. A lot of of people just assume I did.

Believe me, if they finished college, they know you did not. There are little tell-tale signs that reveal someone does not have a degree.

If someone went to Yale for 3 years, a person who graduated Fairleigh Dickinson will pick up some subtle clues that the other person dropped out?

Probably only if they went to Loyola.

Me. I started and never finished. I'm 50, a single mom of 2, and I own a home in DC. I've worked at my job for 20+ years and I make just under 6 figures. My ex has a master's level degree and my oldest is finishing up junior year of college and plans to go to grad school. My youngest is in high school.

Me.

I tried college several times.

First at 18 for a subject that was my passion and dream job (still is, at 50). Was completely unprepared emotionally, did nothing but drink and skip class and basically threw my dream away with both hands.

Was successful at community college, then transferred to a state college and same story as the first time, just wasn't into trying to "make the grade". I was more interested in my jobs and sports and experiencing the world.

Many years later pursued certification in my field through a university extension and got all As. It was a choice point for me as to whether I wanted to go back to school and pursue a degree - and the answer was no.

Am now a program manager with the state, regarded as a bright, thoughtful, respected, and valued part of a team, and making decent money. More importantly, I am simultaneously laying the foundation for and looking forward to the day that I can retire and enjoy the passion that never left me on a full time basis.

It's been a long road, and it took many stumbles and failures and a lot of introspection and maturation to get where I am - but that was the path I came here to take, and I am grateful for who I am and what I have.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My brother dropped out of college. He works in IT and has done well.

FWIW, I have a relative with multiple graduate degrees who has done absolutely nothing with his life.

I have met several billionaires who either dropped out of college or never went, one of which is Bill Gates. The others are in the real estate, coal, and oil businesses. That doesn't count Ted Turner, who was thrown out of Brown (and who I have never met). Smart, hardworking risk-takers, all. In a way, I think it's probably easier to build a huge business like that when you don't have a college degree. College makes it easier to settle into a cushy, medium to high-wage job that will make you comfortable enough to be afraid to gamble everything on a dream.

I dislike these examples, b/c the vast majority of college dropouts aren't going to be Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg. Also, both those men dropped out of Harvard. They had to have the qualifications to get into Harvard in the first place. Not most college dropouts.

exactly. nearly everyone i know with an entrepreneurial spirit has done largely fine, but those w/o (look, I don't have it and is part of the reason why i went to college) have generally struggled. Knew a lot of guys who graduate HS and had a job on a Big 3 auto assembly line. Nearly all of them lost those jobs due to downsizing within ten years of HS graduation. And many of them have been flailing around for the next thirty years.

+1 When the Big 3 line was going it was really going, and those guys were making BANK. I went to Michigan State. Two of my roommates had boyfriends who worked for one of the Big 3 and those guys were making money hand over fist. They looked like a sure thing and my roommates were thrilled to have such great catches. Ten to fifteen years later, when the auto industry tanked, the guys couldn't / wouldn't flex enough to change industries. They're still flailing (love that word cuz it is a perfect description) around now thirty years later.

OTH my husband and I have a best friend who dropped out of college because it just wasn't working for him. He moved around between all sorts of jobs for maybe five or six years before hooking up with us in our business renovating houses. He worked for us for a while and eventually moved into real estate. He now owns a real estate company, and he and his husband have a thriving business.

It is hard without a degree, though. It gets your foot in the door for a lot of things. My real estate friend would be the first to tell you to get a degree. You don't have to love the process of school - too many people think "oh, I don't love it so I'll stop..." - but do it for the piece of paper so the door opens for you just a crack.

I graduated from a HS that sent 40% of its students on to higher ed in 2000. As an earlier graduate the number was probably closer to 25 to 30% so I know many folks who didn't go to or complete college. Most of them are fine.

Maybe not DCUM fine but owning their homes, driving mid level cars, taking an annual vacation, hanging with family and friends. What I consider a middle class lifestyle. Addiction and mental illness are no more rampant than in my college or law school graduating classes. I think most like their lives and as most haven't moved far, enjoy having family around.

They work in all industries and some trades but no one is C suite or anything unless it's their own business. They send their kids to state schools and local private schools that aren't worth the money. It's either those or mentioning Harvard. The in between doesn't exist.

They tend to be politically conservative but as a default because if you scratch the surface they don't really know. But also don't really care.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My brother dropped out of college. He works in IT and has done well.

FWIW, I have a relative with multiple graduate degrees who has done absolutely nothing with his life.

I have met several billionaires who either dropped out of college or never went, one of which is Bill Gates. The others are in the real estate, coal, and oil businesses. That doesn't count Ted Turner, who was thrown out of Brown (and who I have never met). Smart, hardworking risk-takers, all. In a way, I think it's probably easier to build a huge business like that when you don't have a college degree. College makes it easier to settle into a cushy, medium to high-wage job that will make you comfortable enough to be afraid to gamble everything on a dream.

I dislike these examples, b/c the vast majority of college dropouts aren't going to be Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg. Also, both those men dropped out of Harvard. They had to have the qualifications to get into Harvard in the first place. Not most college dropouts.

exactly. nearly everyone i know with an entrepreneurial spirit has done largely fine, but those w/o (look, I don't have it and is part of the reason why i went to college) have generally struggled. Knew a lot of guys who graduate HS and had a job on a Big 3 auto assembly line. Nearly all of them lost those jobs due to downsizing within ten years of HS graduation. And many of them have been flailing around for the next thirty years.

Detroit area? Michigan has never recoverd from losing those jobs. Combine that with few people wanting to leave the area and you have that situation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My brother dropped out of college. He works in IT and has done well.

FWIW, I have a relative with multiple graduate degrees who has done absolutely nothing with his life.

I have met several billionaires who either dropped out of college or never went, one of which is Bill Gates. The others are in the real estate, coal, and oil businesses. That doesn't count Ted Turner, who was thrown out of Brown (and who I have never met). Smart, hardworking risk-takers, all. In a way, I think it's probably easier to build a huge business like that when you don't have a college degree. College makes it easier to settle into a cushy, medium to high-wage job that will make you comfortable enough to be afraid to gamble everything on a dream.

I dislike these examples, b/c the vast majority of college dropouts aren't going to be Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg. Also, both those men dropped out of Harvard. They had to have the qualifications to get into Harvard in the first place. Not most college dropouts.

They also came from UMC families from which they had a safety net

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Growing up, I knew hundreds of people who dropped out/didn’t go. Most weren’t economically successful; it was/is a “dead” city. As an adult, I know people who are economically successful and are in a trade, but they usually had at least an AA degree. I was a first gen college student.

This is my experience as well. I grew up in Western PA and know of quite a few former classmates who didn't go to college. They were from poor families, with parents who had low expectations and were not good role models. Similarly, I know of quite a few who were kind of bumped along a college path by teachers, went to mediocre in-state schools like Clarion, Pitt, etc, and partied until they dropped out. I tink this is also because there just wasn't the expectation in their families that finishing college or attending college was a hallmark of a successful person. These people are mostly poor and live in their hometowns now, and many developed drug problems; several have died of overdose or are/were in legal trouble. Super grim. I never go back there because it is just so depressing.

Pitt is a mediocre school? Clarion, yes, but Pitt?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My brother dropped out of college. He works in IT and has done well.

FWIW, I have a relative with multiple graduate degrees who has done absolutely nothing with his life.

I have met several billionaires who either dropped out of college or never went, one of which is Bill Gates. The others are in the real estate, coal, and oil businesses. That doesn't count Ted Turner, who was thrown out of Brown (and who I have never met). Smart, hardworking risk-takers, all. In a way, I think it's probably easier to build a huge business like that when you don't have a college degree. College makes it easier to settle into a cushy, medium to high-wage job that will make you comfortable enough to be afraid to gamble everything on a dream.

I dislike these examples, b/c the vast majority of college dropouts aren't going to be Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg. Also, both those men dropped out of Harvard. They had to have the qualifications to get into Harvard in the first place. Not most college dropouts.

exactly. nearly everyone i know with an entrepreneurial spirit has done largely fine, but those w/o (look, I don't have it and is part of the reason why i went to college) have generally struggled. Knew a lot of guys who graduate HS and had a job on a Big 3 auto assembly line. Nearly all of them lost those jobs due to downsizing within ten years of HS graduation. And many of them have been flailing around for the next thirty years.

Anonymous wrote:Of course there are success stories everywhere.

But the truth is it's hard to make it if you don't go to college, especially if the reason is you aren't a hard worker or you aren't motivated.

(which is markedly different from someone who is going to be an amazing chef, plumber or car mechanic or someone who is going to be a successful musician or actor and doesn't attend or finish school).

Getting a degree gets you in the door at some entry level jobs and the chance to prove yourself, move up, etc.

My kids don't have to go to college, but if they don't have another good path, I will help them go and try to encourage because it's something you can never take away from them and you can always start over if you have a degree.

So this. Grew up blue collar and had a laser focus on college from around 4th grade, basically because nearly everyone I knew who lived in a nice house had parents who went to college. And they didn't seem stressed about money. I was acutely aware that if our car broke down, everything could unravel. As I got older I grasped that I might change/lose jobs, but I would always have my degree.

I know three dropouts.

One is a highly successful businessman who makes boutique specialty lawyer money.

One is an acclaimed novelist.

The third got into drugs and got hit with mental illness, despite being very talented and working very hard never achieved any real success.

Yes, several. All very successful nos, but because they are highly technically skilled. One of them founded a company that he sold well. Others work for FAANG. It's not uncommon in high tech.

They tended to drop out because they found college just busywork with no point.

One of my friends kids dropped out and became a hairstylist. She's doing fine and it suits her better than college. She was not a studier.

Anonymous wrote:My brother dropped out of college. He works in IT and has done well.

FWIW, I have a relative with multiple graduate degrees who has done absolutely nothing with his life.

I have met several billionaires who either dropped out of college or never went, one of which is Bill Gates. The others are in the real estate, coal, and oil businesses. That doesn't count Ted Turner, who was thrown out of Brown (and who I have never met). Smart, hardworking risk-takers, all. In a way, I think it's probably easier to build a huge business like that when you don't have a college degree. College makes it easier to settle into a cushy, medium to high-wage job that will make you comfortable enough to be afraid to gamble everything on a dream.

I dislike these examples, b/c the vast majority of college dropouts aren't going to be Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg. Also, both those men dropped out of Harvard. They had to have the qualifications to get into Harvard in the first place. Not most college dropouts.

Anonymous wrote:Just curious

Lots!
DH and I are from mostly working class families, which aren’t nearly as dysfunctional as DCUM would have you believe. There’s a lot of relatives who work retail, the military as enlisted, or in the medical field, and a few who have trades or primary (extractive) sector jobs. DH has cousins who work in the fishing and oil industries.

As for how they are doing:

Pre-pandemic, not as bad as you might think.
Less home ownership. Lots of older vehicles.
Very little debt compared to my middle class friends and what I read about on DCUM, but it can also be hard to get fair credit for big things like mortgages, a new roof or a loan to start a business. Very inexpensive, but not necessarily small weddings and funerals. We see a lot of borrowed dresses and suits and potluck or barbecue.
Their kids may or may not go to college, but those who do are picking state institutions or using the GI Bill or having Amazon, FedEx, or McDonald’s pay their tuition as an employment benefit.

The pandemic was hard as a lot of work dried up, but there was a redistribution of funds within the extended families for over a year.