Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I remember when it was preferred to refer to folks as black. Then it was changed to african-american. Than, apparently, we went to black again. I guess BIPOC is the latest iteration.

I'm happy to call people whatever they prefer, but if wish folks would settle on one term.

Only whites are privileged enough to have one term for themselves.

That's a very stupid statement.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hate crime data:

https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/new-2018-fbi-data-jews-were-2-7x-more-likely-than-blacks-2-2x-more-likely-than-muslims-to-be-hate-crime-victim/

Of course our everyday experience is nothing like Black Americans, but to say we’re essentially white people is tremendously ignorant and dismissive.

You’re not getting it and frankly, it’s embarrassing.

-Fellow Jew

Classic. yada yada yada...BUT....

If there's a but, I stop reading. You really aren't getting it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a person descended from european immigrants (with classically "white" skin that sunburns) ….

Many posters are making me ridiculously uncomfortable because they are basically advocating for the Paper Bag Test, 2.0 They don't say that of course, but in effect that's how they select who gets to self identify as a "POC" and who doesn't.

Basically, a rule out / rule in test on the explicit basis of physiological features, starting with skin tone. (super pale skinned Egyptian woman with thin nose and wavy, shiny hair? Nope. Dark olive skinned Egyptian woman — say, the color of a PAPER BAG — with 4c curls and a wide nose bridge? YES.).

Yes I understand that this is about self identity, but, it's undeniable that there are multiple posters who want to act as the hall monitor for others' racial labels

I 100% agree.

- The multi-racial Jewish poster who has been told a million times that I’m white

I know this has been said before, but you can self-identify however you'd like! Really, nobody is stopping you. The reality of our socialized world in which your body exists in, however, is that people will group and label you whether you like it or not. It doesn't really matter how you see yourself out in the world. In terms of how you are treated due to socialized and ingrained collective behaviors, what matters is how the majority of other people (e.g. strangers) group you.

We ALL work off a variety of factors when we categorize others: skin-color, age, gender, weight, etc. This happens in fractions of milliseconds when we encounter someone new. The human brain evolved to efficiently distill and categorize information- that approach is how we managed to stay alive back when rustling leaves could be categorized as "extreme danger" mammoth approaching, or just the sound of a potential rabbit for dinner.

The paper bag test actually refers to colorism, a discriminatory hierarchy existing within the black community. It was originally used as a tool to segregate lighter skinned blacks from darker skinned blacks in fraternities and churches throughout much of the 20th century. It's basically just an extreme exaggeration of what humans already do implicitly in terms of grouping.

You should be uncomfortable! Implicit biases are really, really tough to combat for the very reason that they are so deeply socialized and perpetuated based on our evolution (humans' categorization skills). This is a really fascinating tool that you can use to start testing and combating those implicit racial biases if you're interested: https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/user/agg/blindspot/tablet.htm

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a person descended from european immigrants (with classically "white" skin that sunburns) ….

Many posters are making me ridiculously uncomfortable because they are basically advocating for the Paper Bag Test, 2.0 They don't say that of course, but in effect that's how they select who gets to self identify as a "POC" and who doesn't.

Basically, a rule out / rule in test on the explicit basis of physiological features, starting with skin tone. (super pale skinned Egyptian woman with thin nose and wavy, shiny hair? Nope. Dark olive skinned Egyptian woman — say, the color of a PAPER BAG — with 4c curls and a wide nose bridge? YES.).

Yes I understand that this is about self identity, but, it's undeniable that there are multiple posters who want to act as the hall monitor for others' racial labels

Appearance - yes, skin color - is important because it often dictates how you get treated. You can identify as a POC or BIPOC or whatever, but it’s by and large visibly darker skinned minorities who are profiled and discriminated against.

Yes, but as other have said, there are extremely violent people—Neo-Nazis in particular—who don’t give 2 shts about your skin color. If they know you’re a Jew, they’ll kill you.

This! This is exactly it - you phrased it well. "IF" they know you're Jewish. I am acknowledging that I am generalizing, and that there are many exceptions to the lighter skinned Jewish person (I am good friends with two black Americans who are Jewish, for example). But because we are speaking in generalizations, as one must when it comes to systemic racism (not to be confused with individualized racism), implicit in your sentence framing is the notion that the odds are decent and/or at the very least - the odds exist - that the hypothetical Neo-Nazi will not know you are Jewish *unless* you tell them. Can you try to distance yourself from the pain of your plight temporarily, and see that black Americans do not have this option when it comes to revealing the color of their skin to equally hateful strangers?

I said multiple times that Black people have it worse.

But you also need to realize that Jews have hidden our religion for centuries because of multiple genocides against us.

Also, you should know that outside America, many people can pick out a Jew pretty quickly. I lived in Russia and people there knew immediately that I’m Jewish. There was no hiding it. Same when I visited Germany.

We are talking about the US. Try to stay on topic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a person descended from european immigrants (with classically "white" skin that sunburns) ….

Many posters are making me ridiculously uncomfortable because they are basically advocating for the Paper Bag Test, 2.0 They don't say that of course, but in effect that's how they select who gets to self identify as a "POC" and who doesn't.

Basically, a rule out / rule in test on the explicit basis of physiological features, starting with skin tone. (super pale skinned Egyptian woman with thin nose and wavy, shiny hair? Nope. Dark olive skinned Egyptian woman — say, the color of a PAPER BAG — with 4c curls and a wide nose bridge? YES.).

Yes I understand that this is about self identity, but, it's undeniable that there are multiple posters who want to act as the hall monitor for others' racial labels

Appearance - yes, skin color - is important because it often dictates how you get treated. You can identify as a POC or BIPOC or whatever, but it’s by and large visibly darker skinned minorities who are profiled and discriminated against.

Yes, but as other have said, there are extremely violent people—Neo-Nazis in particular—who don’t give 2 shts about your skin color. If they know you’re a Jew, they’ll kill you.

This! This is exactly it - you phrased it well. "IF" they know you're Jewish. I am acknowledging that I am generalizing, and that there are many exceptions to the lighter skinned Jewish person (I am good friends with two black Americans who are Jewish, for example). But because we are speaking in generalizations, as one must when it comes to systemic racism (not to be confused with individualized racism), implicit in your sentence framing is the notion that the odds are decent and/or at the very least - the odds exist - that the hypothetical Neo-Nazi will not know you are Jewish *unless* you tell them. Can you try to distance yourself from the pain of your plight temporarily, and see that black Americans do not have this option when it comes to revealing the color of their skin to equally hateful strangers?

I said multiple times that Black people have it worse.

But you also need to realize that Jews have hidden our religion for centuries because of multiple genocides against us.

Also, you should know that outside America, many people can pick out a Jew pretty quickly. I lived in Russia and people there knew immediately that I’m Jewish. There was no hiding it. Same when I visited Germany.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a person descended from european immigrants (with classically "white" skin that sunburns) ….

Many posters are making me ridiculously uncomfortable because they are basically advocating for the Paper Bag Test, 2.0 They don't say that of course, but in effect that's how they select who gets to self identify as a "POC" and who doesn't.

Basically, a rule out / rule in test on the explicit basis of physiological features, starting with skin tone. (super pale skinned Egyptian woman with thin nose and wavy, shiny hair? Nope. Dark olive skinned Egyptian woman — say, the color of a PAPER BAG — with 4c curls and a wide nose bridge? YES.).

Yes I understand that this is about self identity, but, it's undeniable that there are multiple posters who want to act as the hall monitor for others' racial labels

Appearance - yes, skin color - is important because it often dictates how you get treated. You can identify as a POC or BIPOC or whatever, but it’s by and large visibly darker skinned minorities who are profiled and discriminated against.

Yes, but as other have said, there are extremely violent people—Neo-Nazis in particular—who don’t give 2 shts about your skin color. If they know you’re a Jew, they’ll kill you.

This! This is exactly it - you phrased it well. "IF" they know you're Jewish. I am acknowledging that I am generalizing, and that there are many exceptions to the lighter skinned Jewish person (I am good friends with two black Americans who are Jewish, for example). But because we are speaking in generalizations, as one must when it comes to systemic racism (not to be confused with individualized racism), implicit in your sentence framing is the notion that the odds are decent and/or at the very least - the odds exist - that the hypothetical Neo-Nazi will not know you are Jewish *unless* you tell them. Can you try to distance yourself from the pain of your plight temporarily, and see that black Americans do not have this option when it comes to revealing the color of their skin to equally hateful strangers?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I remember when it was preferred to refer to folks as black. Then it was changed to african-american. Than, apparently, we went to black again. I guess BIPOC is the latest iteration.

I'm happy to call people whatever they prefer, but if wish folks would settle on one term.

The way that we think and talk about race has always and will continue to evolve. Black people endured hundreds of years being defined by white people. Please allow us our nuance now.

And this is where people like my family give a hard NO.

We are a multi-racial family. We find the term BIPOC incredibly offensive. Like only our black children may be discriminated against? Really? Since when did discrimination and racism become a contest?

This new term BIPOC reflects a bad turn for the protest movement.

I didn't create the term lady. But I think that people of color should generally get to control the language around how they are identified. That is the point that I was making to PP, and I believe you should call yourself and have others call you whatever you like.

Well we resent this new term BIPOC and will renounce it if we hear it applied to us. We should all be preaching MORE tolerance, not becoming more INTOLERANT. This smacks of closing the loop and leaving others out. We will NOT be any part of it.

Anonymous wrote:Do you remember the good old days when white people defined who everyone was? It was, after all, the white Johann Friedrich Blumenbach who divided the humans into five classes of race. Which race did he say was the most superior? the Caucasoid race. Before Johann came along, there was the other white guy, Pope Nicholas V, who granted Portugal and Spain the right to use Africans as slaves because the pope determined that Blacks were inferior. All this race shit was created by whites. Since most of the people who post on this site clam to be ivy league or some other elite college educated, you should have the ability to comprehend the historical documents about race that was produced by your white forebears.

I don’t know who the fk are my forebearers. I mean, hell, in the Russo-Japanese war my people killed my people.

It’s a whole crapload of confusing.

Do you remember the good old days when white people defined who everyone was? It was, after all, the white Johann Friedrich Blumenbach who divided the humans into five classes of race. Which race did he say was the most superior? the Caucasoid race. Before Johann came along, there was the other white guy, Pope Nicholas V, who granted Portugal and Spain the right to use Africans as slaves because the pope determined that Blacks were inferior. All this race shit was created by whites. Since most of the people who post on this site clam to be ivy league or some other elite college educated, you should have the ability to comprehend the historical documents about race that was produced by your white forebears.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I remember when it was preferred to refer to folks as black. Then it was changed to african-american. Than, apparently, we went to black again. I guess BIPOC is the latest iteration.

I'm happy to call people whatever they prefer, but if wish folks would settle on one term.

Only whites are privileged enough to have one term for themselves.

LOL. I am from West Virginia. I've been called white trash, hillbilly, cracker, peckerwood, trailer trash, inbred (x1000), and all sorts of other unflattering things.

I do my best to call people of any race, gender, etc. whatever they prefer to be called. If you want BIPOC, BIPOC it is. I do find the indigenous part confusing because only Native Americans are indigenous here. the rest of us are immigrants, forced or unforced.

My family started out as "indentured servants" here.

At what point are people no longer immigrants? How many generations or years have to pass?

The sad reality is that if you are black or white looking, you can pass as being from here. If your visibly Asian or Latino (Latinx??), you’re not from here.

Because of all the former Spanish colonies and territories including Florida, California, Nevada, New Mexico, and Texas, latinos have long been "from here".

I mean, if you’re posting from Texas or Florida, I’m really not talking about your area. Any area that’s almost majority Hispanic is obviously going to be hospitable to those who look Hispanic. Just like as an Asian American, I’d feel more accepted in California.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hate crime data:

https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/new-2018-fbi-data-jews-were-2-7x-more-likely-than-blacks-2-2x-more-likely-than-muslims-to-be-hate-crime-victim/

Of course our everyday experience is nothing like Black Americans, but to say we’re essentially white people is tremendously ignorant and dismissive.

You’re not getting it and frankly, it’s embarrassing.

-Fellow Jew

So you think we are just white people? You’re dismissing anti-Semitism as a problem? I’m not drawing an equivalency. I’m saying for the people who despise us, we are not white and will never be white.

Yes, I think we are “just” white people who happen to be persecuted on the basis of our religion (and also to many our ethnicity - but we are discussing race). No, no one is dismissing anti-Semitism as a problem. We have all faced plenty of discrimination for being Jewish.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I remember when it was preferred to refer to folks as black. Then it was changed to african-american. Than, apparently, we went to black again. I guess BIPOC is the latest iteration.

I'm happy to call people whatever they prefer, but if wish folks would settle on one term.

Only whites are privileged enough to have one term for themselves.

LOL. I am from West Virginia. I've been called white trash, hillbilly, cracker, peckerwood, trailer trash, inbred (x1000), and all sorts of other unflattering things.

I do my best to call people of any race, gender, etc. whatever they prefer to be called. If you want BIPOC, BIPOC it is. I do find the indigenous part confusing because only Native Americans are indigenous here. the rest of us are immigrants, forced or unforced.

My family started out as "indentured servants" here.

At what point are people no longer immigrants? How many generations or years have to pass?

The sad reality is that if you are black or white looking, you can pass as being from here. If your visibly Asian or Latino (Latinx??), you’re not from here.

Because of all the former Spanish colonies and territories including Florida, California, Nevada, New Mexico, and Texas, latinos have long been "from here".

Preach!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I remember when it was preferred to refer to folks as black. Then it was changed to african-american. Than, apparently, we went to black again. I guess BIPOC is the latest iteration.

I'm happy to call people whatever they prefer, but if wish folks would settle on one term.

Only whites are privileged enough to have one term for themselves.

LOL. I am from West Virginia. I've been called white trash, hillbilly, cracker, peckerwood, trailer trash, inbred (x1000), and all sorts of other unflattering things.

I do my best to call people of any race, gender, etc. whatever they prefer to be called. If you want BIPOC, BIPOC it is. I do find the indigenous part confusing because only Native Americans are indigenous here. the rest of us are immigrants, forced or unforced.

My family started out as "indentured servants" here.

At what point are people no longer immigrants? How many generations or years have to pass?

The sad reality is that if you are black or white looking, you can pass as being from here. If your visibly Asian or Latino (Latinx??), you’re not from here.

Because of all the former Spanish colonies and territories including Florida, California, Nevada, New Mexico, and Texas, latinos have long been "from here".

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hate crime data:

https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/new-2018-fbi-data-jews-were-2-7x-more-likely-than-blacks-2-2x-more-likely-than-muslims-to-be-hate-crime-victim/

Of course our everyday experience is nothing like Black Americans, but to say we’re essentially white people is tremendously ignorant and dismissive.

You’re not getting it and frankly, it’s embarrassing.

-Fellow Jew

So you think we are just white people? You’re dismissing anti-Semitism as a problem? I’m not drawing an equivalency. I’m saying for the people who despise us, we are not white and will never be white.

Anonymous wrote:Hate crime data:

https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/new-2018-fbi-data-jews-were-2-7x-more-likely-than-blacks-2-2x-more-likely-than-muslims-to-be-hate-crime-victim/

Of course our everyday experience is nothing like Black Americans, but to say we’re essentially white people is tremendously ignorant and dismissive.

You’re not getting it and frankly, it’s embarrassing.

-Fellow Jew