Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a country of OLD PEOPLE. Maybe it's time to die: peacefully, at home.

Who really wants their last gasp to be on a respirator in a hospital bed anyway?

You have to die eventually. Do it surrounded by family.

It's not just old people who are dying. But let them eat cake, right Trumpsters?

Most of the younger people who have died from this had other underlying conditions. And even at this it is still mostly old people dying on that manner. Average age reports of over 80. Very very few healthy young people with no other underlying conditions have died from this.

You know people with underlying conditions can hear you, right?

Sure, the point is not to diminish the deaths. It is that the scare factor is greatly exaggerated. If we didn’t have every tom, dick and harry with a minor cough running to hospitals thinking they’re going to die, they might be better positioned to serve the elderly and those with underlying conditions who are actually at threat from this virus.

"Everyone dies alone"

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-everyone-dies-alone-heartbreak-at-the-italian-hospital-on-the-brink-of-collapse-11961130

If that video doesn't scare you, PP above, then you are not human.

The excess mortality rate for many of the “hardest hit” countries in Europe show negligible if any uptick in deaths vis a vis similar periods in previous years. We just didn’t have video and imagery blasts from hospitals during those periods. This is a sad situation, for sure. But it’s maddening that the hype has made it much much worse than it needed to be and contributed to overwhelming some hospital systems.

Can you provide data to back it up? Since this is a new disease, those are all new deaths. You need to carry a form to go out buy groceries in Italy. Without this type of lockdown, the number of deaths could be even higher. The death rate for Covid-19 is 1.3% for USA and 8.5% for Italy. The flu has a death rate of 0.1%.

New disease does not necessarily mean new death (i.e. death that would not have happened but for corona) because there are confounders. In one Italian study 99% of deaths were patients that had one or more comorbidities.

The rates you cite are far too high. Remember, only the symptomatic and worst cases are even being tested right now due to short supply of tests. There are plenty of people walking around with CV who have not been tested for it and probably never will be. Positive tests are over represented currently, and probably rightly so.

These are released weekly. Nothing is airtight with ANY data set coming out right now, because of the mania, but this does give some pause.

https://www.euromomo.eu/index.html

The death rate is from the official numbers released. We have enough sample size -- 20,000 for US and 48,000 for Italy -- that the death rate calculated has a high confidence of being accurate. If we have more testing, we will also have more deaths that were attributed to 'flu' or 'pneumonia'. There is no dispute Covid-19 is more contagious and deadly than regular flu. The key failure for the US government is the leadership believed this is just another glorified flu and wasted two months to not act.

Yes and the “official” numbers released all have massive problems and biases. Don’t appeal to authority. You are acting like these are data sets from journals in peer reviewed articles lol, please. Everything is a rush job right now.

The actual fatality of COVID 19 vis a vis common flu actually IS under dispute. More commentators and analyses are coming out crunching numbers and questioning the mainstream narrative.

This is real life. We make decisions on the fly with messy data. Just like war. In real life, we are generals, not historians. We don't have the luxury of waiting for better information.

ALL of the evidence is that this is more deadly than the flu. All of it. Even accounting for the uncertainties (there are methods for dealing with that). But even with years of well-established data, many people still don't get a flu shot. Why should this be different?

You can say it as many times as you like, that does not make it true. And even if so, the question remains whether it will be worth this MASSIVE overreaction. I wager the answer is no. And it will become increasingly clear as time passes. The need to take ANY kind of action is not the same as the need to take THIS action. We have let fear win.

Swear to god, some people just like being contrary.

It’s not a matter of being contrary. It’s a matter of calibrating the response to the scale of the threat. I fear we have badly missed it here and will be paying for it for a while. [b]No one is saying this isn’t serious.

That's exactly what you are saying, without actually saying it.

Up your reading comprehension. There are levels to serious. A broken bone might be serious, but you don’t cut your leg off because of it! Also, part of the “seriousness” of this is because of the hysteria, rather than the potency of the disease itself. Genie is out of the bottle.

My reading comprehension is very good. You aren't taking coronavirus seriously. End of story.

I’ve read and heard stories of many, many small business owners who were doing well and lost everything in a matter of weeks. I take those seriously too. Get off of your high horse 🙄.

Just context for what is and is not being emphasized in the media. Have you seen much about countries returning to normal in MSM? It’s vastly outweighed by hype and hysteria. Stay woke.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a country of OLD PEOPLE. Maybe it's time to die: peacefully, at home.

Who really wants their last gasp to be on a respirator in a hospital bed anyway?

You have to die eventually. Do it surrounded by family.

It's not just old people who are dying. But let them eat cake, right Trumpsters?

Most of the younger people who have died from this had other underlying conditions. And even at this it is still mostly old people dying on that manner. Average age reports of over 80. Very very few healthy young people with no other underlying conditions have died from this.

You know people with underlying conditions can hear you, right?

Sure, the point is not to diminish the deaths. It is that the scare factor is greatly exaggerated. If we didn’t have every tom, dick and harry with a minor cough running to hospitals thinking they’re going to die, they might be better positioned to serve the elderly and those with underlying conditions who are actually at threat from this virus.

"Everyone dies alone"

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-everyone-dies-alone-heartbreak-at-the-italian-hospital-on-the-brink-of-collapse-11961130

If that video doesn't scare you, PP above, then you are not human.

The excess mortality rate for many of the “hardest hit” countries in Europe show negligible if any uptick in deaths vis a vis similar periods in previous years. We just didn’t have video and imagery blasts from hospitals during those periods. This is a sad situation, for sure. But it’s maddening that the hype has made it much much worse than it needed to be and contributed to overwhelming some hospital systems.

so you just don't care that people are being turned away from hospitals because there aren't enough beds. And those beds are NOT being taken by people with a cough. The doctors would not allow that. It is a problem when the number of people who need ventilators is larger than then number available. How can you not see this?

I do. Italy is particularly bad for a number of reasons: average age, tactile culture, air pollution and attendant respiratory problems. That being said, there is still no evidence that “more people than usual” are dying because of this in Italy. Much of the same holds for Wuhan and Iran. You cannot apply that to the rest of the world. Why is the media not using Germany as a benchmark?

Because German deaths are the epitome of fake news. Germany does not do post mortem testing and routinely attributes deaths to an underlying condition instead of coronavirus.

Every time a Reddit post appears on Germany, all the Germans pile in about how misleading their death statistics are.

Switzerland is very similar. It has the second highest per capita rate in the world after Italy (excluding the tiny nation states) and the death rate is also relatively low (but not as low as Germany). It also has a very deliberate policy of prioritizing treatment of Swiss nationals over foreign legal residents despite being home to several international organizations, as well as large pharmaceutical companies that have multinational work forces.

They’re all off the mark because there is no “mark” currently, so it becomes a matter of perspective. There is no uniform
methodology between the data sets. More and more experts are coming out saying that Corona virus should not be blamed as the cause of these incremental deaths. Why run with the boogeyman scariest sounding data set and methodology? Many have already said that Italy is not a good comp because of the poor air quality and the old age. China, South Korea, Japan are all back on the path to normal life...

China put 800 million people on lockdown for 2 months and you think we are overreacting?

Yes. China acted under different circumstances. China also reportedly detained 1 million Muslim Uighurs to stem terrorist uprisings. Should we have followed that example as well?

Why do you keep raising other countries as examples only to deny their validity as examples? Either China is an example or it isn't. I didn't bring them up, you did.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a country of OLD PEOPLE. Maybe it's time to die: peacefully, at home.

Who really wants their last gasp to be on a respirator in a hospital bed anyway?

You have to die eventually. Do it surrounded by family.

It's not just old people who are dying. But let them eat cake, right Trumpsters?

Most of the younger people who have died from this had other underlying conditions. And even at this it is still mostly old people dying on that manner. Average age reports of over 80. Very very few healthy young people with no other underlying conditions have died from this.

You know people with underlying conditions can hear you, right?

Sure, the point is not to diminish the deaths. It is that the scare factor is greatly exaggerated. If we didn’t have every tom, dick and harry with a minor cough running to hospitals thinking they’re going to die, they might be better positioned to serve the elderly and those with underlying conditions who are actually at threat from this virus.

"Everyone dies alone"

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-everyone-dies-alone-heartbreak-at-the-italian-hospital-on-the-brink-of-collapse-11961130

If that video doesn't scare you, PP above, then you are not human.

The excess mortality rate for many of the “hardest hit” countries in Europe show negligible if any uptick in deaths vis a vis similar periods in previous years. We just didn’t have video and imagery blasts from hospitals during those periods. This is a sad situation, for sure. But it’s maddening that the hype has made it much much worse than it needed to be and contributed to overwhelming some hospital systems.

Can you provide data to back it up? Since this is a new disease, those are all new deaths. You need to carry a form to go out buy groceries in Italy. Without this type of lockdown, the number of deaths could be even higher. The death rate for Covid-19 is 1.3% for USA and 8.5% for Italy. The flu has a death rate of 0.1%.

New disease does not necessarily mean new death (i.e. death that would not have happened but for corona) because there are confounders. In one Italian study 99% of deaths were patients that had one or more comorbidities.

The rates you cite are far too high. Remember, only the symptomatic and worst cases are even being tested right now due to short supply of tests. There are plenty of people walking around with CV who have not been tested for it and probably never will be. Positive tests are over represented currently, and probably rightly so.

These are released weekly. Nothing is airtight with ANY data set coming out right now, because of the mania, but this does give some pause.

https://www.euromomo.eu/index.html

The death rate is from the official numbers released. We have enough sample size -- 20,000 for US and 48,000 for Italy -- that the death rate calculated has a high confidence of being accurate. If we have more testing, we will also have more deaths that were attributed to 'flu' or 'pneumonia'. There is no dispute Covid-19 is more contagious and deadly than regular flu. The key failure for the US government is the leadership believed this is just another glorified flu and wasted two months to not act.

Yes and the “official” numbers released all have massive problems and biases. Don’t appeal to authority. You are acting like these are data sets from journals in peer reviewed articles lol, please. Everything is a rush job right now.

The actual fatality of COVID 19 vis a vis common flu actually IS under dispute. More commentators and analyses are coming out crunching numbers and questioning the mainstream narrative.

This is real life. We make decisions on the fly with messy data. Just like war. In real life, we are generals, not historians. We don't have the luxury of waiting for better information.

ALL of the evidence is that this is more deadly than the flu. All of it. Even accounting for the uncertainties (there are methods for dealing with that). But even with years of well-established data, many people still don't get a flu shot. Why should this be different?

You can say it as many times as you like, that does not make it true. And even if so, the question remains whether it will be worth this MASSIVE overreaction. I wager the answer is no. And it will become increasingly clear as time passes. The need to take ANY kind of action is not the same as the need to take THIS action. We have let fear win.

Swear to god, some people just like being contrary.

It’s not a matter of being contrary. It’s a matter of calibrating the response to the scale of the threat. I fear we have badly missed it here and will be paying for it for a while. [b]No one is saying this isn’t serious.

That's exactly what you are saying, without actually saying it.

Up your reading comprehension. There are levels to serious. A broken bone might be serious, but you don’t cut your leg off because of it! Also, part of the “seriousness” of this is because of the hysteria, rather than the potency of the disease itself. Genie is out of the bottle.

My reading comprehension is very good. You aren't taking coronavirus seriously. End of story.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a country of OLD PEOPLE. Maybe it's time to die: peacefully, at home.

Who really wants their last gasp to be on a respirator in a hospital bed anyway?

You have to die eventually. Do it surrounded by family.

It's not just old people who are dying. But let them eat cake, right Trumpsters?

Most of the younger people who have died from this had other underlying conditions. And even at this it is still mostly old people dying on that manner. Average age reports of over 80. Very very few healthy young people with no other underlying conditions have died from this.

You know people with underlying conditions can hear you, right?

Sure, the point is not to diminish the deaths. It is that the scare factor is greatly exaggerated. If we didn’t have every tom, dick and harry with a minor cough running to hospitals thinking they’re going to die, they might be better positioned to serve the elderly and those with underlying conditions who are actually at threat from this virus.

"Everyone dies alone"

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-everyone-dies-alone-heartbreak-at-the-italian-hospital-on-the-brink-of-collapse-11961130

If that video doesn't scare you, PP above, then you are not human.

The excess mortality rate for many of the “hardest hit” countries in Europe show negligible if any uptick in deaths vis a vis similar periods in previous years. We just didn’t have video and imagery blasts from hospitals during those periods. This is a sad situation, for sure. But it’s maddening that the hype has made it much much worse than it needed to be and contributed to overwhelming some hospital systems.

so you just don't care that people are being turned away from hospitals because there aren't enough beds. And those beds are NOT being taken by people with a cough. The doctors would not allow that. It is a problem when the number of people who need ventilators is larger than then number available. How can you not see this?

I do. Italy is particularly bad for a number of reasons: average age, tactile culture, air pollution and attendant respiratory problems. That being said, there is still no evidence that “more people than usual” are dying because of this in Italy. Much of the same holds for Wuhan and Iran. You cannot apply that to the rest of the world. Why is the media not using Germany as a benchmark?

Because German deaths are the epitome of fake news. Germany does not do post mortem testing and routinely attributes deaths to an underlying condition instead of coronavirus.

Every time a Reddit post appears on Germany, all the Germans pile in about how misleading their death statistics are.

Switzerland is very similar. It has the second highest per capita rate in the world after Italy (excluding the tiny nation states) and the death rate is also relatively low (but not as low as Germany). It also has a very deliberate policy of prioritizing treatment of Swiss nationals over foreign legal residents despite being home to several international organizations, as well as large pharmaceutical companies that have multinational work forces.

They’re all off the mark because there is no “mark” currently, so it becomes a matter of perspective. There is no uniform
methodology between the data sets. More and more experts are coming out saying that Corona virus should not be blamed as the cause of these incremental deaths. Why run with the boogeyman scariest sounding data set and methodology? Many have already said that Italy is not a good comp because of the poor air quality and the old age. China, South Korea, Japan are all back on the path to normal life...

China put 800 million people on lockdown for 2 months and you think we are overreacting?

Yes. China acted under different circumstances. China also reportedly detained 1 million Muslim Uighurs to stem terrorist uprisings. Should we have followed that example as well?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a country of OLD PEOPLE. Maybe it's time to die: peacefully, at home.

Who really wants their last gasp to be on a respirator in a hospital bed anyway?

You have to die eventually. Do it surrounded by family.

It's not just old people who are dying. But let them eat cake, right Trumpsters?

Most of the younger people who have died from this had other underlying conditions. And even at this it is still mostly old people dying on that manner. Average age reports of over 80. Very very few healthy young people with no other underlying conditions have died from this.

You know people with underlying conditions can hear you, right?

Sure, the point is not to diminish the deaths. It is that the scare factor is greatly exaggerated. If we didn’t have every tom, dick and harry with a minor cough running to hospitals thinking they’re going to die, they might be better positioned to serve the elderly and those with underlying conditions who are actually at threat from this virus.

"Everyone dies alone"

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-everyone-dies-alone-heartbreak-at-the-italian-hospital-on-the-brink-of-collapse-11961130

If that video doesn't scare you, PP above, then you are not human.

The excess mortality rate for many of the “hardest hit” countries in Europe show negligible if any uptick in deaths vis a vis similar periods in previous years. We just didn’t have video and imagery blasts from hospitals during those periods. This is a sad situation, for sure. But it’s maddening that the hype has made it much much worse than it needed to be and contributed to overwhelming some hospital systems.

Can you provide data to back it up? Since this is a new disease, those are all new deaths. You need to carry a form to go out buy groceries in Italy. Without this type of lockdown, the number of deaths could be even higher. The death rate for Covid-19 is 1.3% for USA and 8.5% for Italy. The flu has a death rate of 0.1%.

New disease does not necessarily mean new death (i.e. death that would not have happened but for corona) because there are confounders. In one Italian study 99% of deaths were patients that had one or more comorbidities.

The rates you cite are far too high. Remember, only the symptomatic and worst cases are even being tested right now due to short supply of tests. There are plenty of people walking around with CV who have not been tested for it and probably never will be. Positive tests are over represented currently, and probably rightly so.

These are released weekly. Nothing is airtight with ANY data set coming out right now, because of the mania, but this does give some pause.

https://www.euromomo.eu/index.html

The death rate is from the official numbers released. We have enough sample size -- 20,000 for US and 48,000 for Italy -- that the death rate calculated has a high confidence of being accurate. If we have more testing, we will also have more deaths that were attributed to 'flu' or 'pneumonia'. There is no dispute Covid-19 is more contagious and deadly than regular flu. The key failure for the US government is the leadership believed this is just another glorified flu and wasted two months to not act.

Yes and the “official” numbers released all have massive problems and biases. Don’t appeal to authority. You are acting like these are data sets from journals in peer reviewed articles lol, please. Everything is a rush job right now.

The actual fatality of COVID 19 vis a vis common flu actually IS under dispute. More commentators and analyses are coming out crunching numbers and questioning the mainstream narrative.

This is real life. We make decisions on the fly with messy data. Just like war. In real life, we are generals, not historians. We don't have the luxury of waiting for better information.

ALL of the evidence is that this is more deadly than the flu. All of it. Even accounting for the uncertainties (there are methods for dealing with that). But even with years of well-established data, many people still don't get a flu shot. Why should this be different?

You can say it as many times as you like, that does not make it true. And even if so, the question remains whether it will be worth this MASSIVE overreaction. I wager the answer is no. And it will become increasingly clear as time passes. The need to take ANY kind of action is not the same as the need to take THIS action. We have let fear win.

Swear to god, some people just like being contrary.

It’s not a matter of being contrary. It’s a matter of calibrating the response to the scale of the threat. I fear we have badly missed it here and will be paying for it for a while. [b]No one is saying this isn’t serious.

That's exactly what you are saying, without actually saying it.

Up your reading comprehension. There are levels to serious. A broken bone might be serious, but you don’t cut your leg off because of it! Also, part of the “seriousness” of this is because of the hysteria, rather than the potency of the disease itself. Genie is out of the bottle.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a country of OLD PEOPLE. Maybe it's time to die: peacefully, at home.

Who really wants their last gasp to be on a respirator in a hospital bed anyway?

You have to die eventually. Do it surrounded by family.

It's not just old people who are dying. But let them eat cake, right Trumpsters?

Most of the younger people who have died from this had other underlying conditions. And even at this it is still mostly old people dying on that manner. Average age reports of over 80. Very very few healthy young people with no other underlying conditions have died from this.

You know people with underlying conditions can hear you, right?

Sure, the point is not to diminish the deaths. It is that the scare factor is greatly exaggerated. If we didn’t have every tom, dick and harry with a minor cough running to hospitals thinking they’re going to die, they might be better positioned to serve the elderly and those with underlying conditions who are actually at threat from this virus.

"Everyone dies alone"

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-everyone-dies-alone-heartbreak-at-the-italian-hospital-on-the-brink-of-collapse-11961130

If that video doesn't scare you, PP above, then you are not human.

The excess mortality rate for many of the “hardest hit” countries in Europe show negligible if any uptick in deaths vis a vis similar periods in previous years. We just didn’t have video and imagery blasts from hospitals during those periods. This is a sad situation, for sure. But it’s maddening that the hype has made it much much worse than it needed to be and contributed to overwhelming some hospital systems.

so you just don't care that people are being turned away from hospitals because there aren't enough beds. And those beds are NOT being taken by people with a cough. The doctors would not allow that. It is a problem when the number of people who need ventilators is larger than then number available. How can you not see this?

I do. Italy is particularly bad for a number of reasons: average age, tactile culture, air pollution and attendant respiratory problems. That being said, there is still no evidence that “more people than usual” are dying because of this in Italy. Much of the same holds for Wuhan and Iran. You cannot apply that to the rest of the world. Why is the media not using Germany as a benchmark?

Because German deaths are the epitome of fake news. Germany does not do post mortem testing and routinely attributes deaths to an underlying condition instead of coronavirus.

Every time a Reddit post appears on Germany, all the Germans pile in about how misleading their death statistics are.

Switzerland is very similar. It has the second highest per capita rate in the world after Italy (excluding the tiny nation states) and the death rate is also relatively low (but not as low as Germany). It also has a very deliberate policy of prioritizing treatment of Swiss nationals over foreign legal residents despite being home to several international organizations, as well as large pharmaceutical companies that have multinational work forces.

They’re all off the mark because there is no “mark” currently, so it becomes a matter of perspective. There is no uniform
methodology between the data sets. More and more experts are coming out saying that Corona virus should not be blamed as the cause of these incremental deaths. Why run with the boogeyman scariest sounding data set and methodology? Many have already said that Italy is not a good comp because of the poor air quality and the old age. China, South Korea, Japan are all back on the path to normal life...

China put 800 million people on lockdown for 2 months and you think we are overreacting?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a country of OLD PEOPLE. Maybe it's time to die: peacefully, at home.

Who really wants their last gasp to be on a respirator in a hospital bed anyway?

You have to die eventually. Do it surrounded by family.

It's not just old people who are dying. But let them eat cake, right Trumpsters?

Most of the younger people who have died from this had other underlying conditions. And even at this it is still mostly old people dying on that manner. Average age reports of over 80. Very very few healthy young people with no other underlying conditions have died from this.

You know people with underlying conditions can hear you, right?

Sure, the point is not to diminish the deaths. It is that the scare factor is greatly exaggerated. If we didn’t have every tom, dick and harry with a minor cough running to hospitals thinking they’re going to die, they might be better positioned to serve the elderly and those with underlying conditions who are actually at threat from this virus.

"Everyone dies alone"

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-everyone-dies-alone-heartbreak-at-the-italian-hospital-on-the-brink-of-collapse-11961130

If that video doesn't scare you, PP above, then you are not human.

The excess mortality rate for many of the “hardest hit” countries in Europe show negligible if any uptick in deaths vis a vis similar periods in previous years. We just didn’t have video and imagery blasts from hospitals during those periods. This is a sad situation, for sure. But it’s maddening that the hype has made it much much worse than it needed to be and contributed to overwhelming some hospital systems.

Can you provide data to back it up? Since this is a new disease, those are all new deaths. You need to carry a form to go out buy groceries in Italy. Without this type of lockdown, the number of deaths could be even higher. The death rate for Covid-19 is 1.3% for USA and 8.5% for Italy. The flu has a death rate of 0.1%.

New disease does not necessarily mean new death (i.e. death that would not have happened but for corona) because there are confounders. In one Italian study 99% of deaths were patients that had one or more comorbidities.

The rates you cite are far too high. Remember, only the symptomatic and worst cases are even being tested right now due to short supply of tests. There are plenty of people walking around with CV who have not been tested for it and probably never will be. Positive tests are over represented currently, and probably rightly so.

These are released weekly. Nothing is airtight with ANY data set coming out right now, because of the mania, but this does give some pause.

https://www.euromomo.eu/index.html

The death rate is from the official numbers released. We have enough sample size -- 20,000 for US and 48,000 for Italy -- that the death rate calculated has a high confidence of being accurate. If we have more testing, we will also have more deaths that were attributed to 'flu' or 'pneumonia'. There is no dispute Covid-19 is more contagious and deadly than regular flu. The key failure for the US government is the leadership believed this is just another glorified flu and wasted two months to not act.

Yes and the “official” numbers released all have massive problems and biases. Don’t appeal to authority. You are acting like these are data sets from journals in peer reviewed articles lol, please. Everything is a rush job right now.

The actual fatality of COVID 19 vis a vis common flu actually IS under dispute. More commentators and analyses are coming out crunching numbers and questioning the mainstream narrative.

This is real life. We make decisions on the fly with messy data. Just like war. In real life, we are generals, not historians. We don't have the luxury of waiting for better information.

ALL of the evidence is that this is more deadly than the flu. All of it. Even accounting for the uncertainties (there are methods for dealing with that). But even with years of well-established data, many people still don't get a flu shot. Why should this be different?

You can say it as many times as you like, that does not make it true. And even if so, the question remains whether it will be worth this MASSIVE overreaction. I wager the answer is no. And it will become increasingly clear as time passes. The need to take ANY kind of action is not the same as the need to take THIS action. We have let fear win.

Swear to god, some people just like being contrary.

It’s not a matter of being contrary. It’s a matter of calibrating the response to the scale of the threat. I fear we have badly missed it here and will be paying for it for a while. [b]No one is saying this isn’t serious.

That's exactly what you are saying, without actually saying it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a country of OLD PEOPLE. Maybe it's time to die: peacefully, at home.

Who really wants their last gasp to be on a respirator in a hospital bed anyway?

You have to die eventually. Do it surrounded by family.

It's not just old people who are dying. But let them eat cake, right Trumpsters?

Most of the younger people who have died from this had other underlying conditions. And even at this it is still mostly old people dying on that manner. Average age reports of over 80. Very very few healthy young people with no other underlying conditions have died from this.

You know people with underlying conditions can hear you, right?

Sure, the point is not to diminish the deaths. It is that the scare factor is greatly exaggerated. If we didn’t have every tom, dick and harry with a minor cough running to hospitals thinking they’re going to die, they might be better positioned to serve the elderly and those with underlying conditions who are actually at threat from this virus.

"Everyone dies alone"

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-everyone-dies-alone-heartbreak-at-the-italian-hospital-on-the-brink-of-collapse-11961130

If that video doesn't scare you, PP above, then you are not human.

The excess mortality rate for many of the “hardest hit” countries in Europe show negligible if any uptick in deaths vis a vis similar periods in previous years. We just didn’t have video and imagery blasts from hospitals during those periods. This is a sad situation, for sure. But it’s maddening that the hype has made it much much worse than it needed to be and contributed to overwhelming some hospital systems.

so you just don't care that people are being turned away from hospitals because there aren't enough beds. And those beds are NOT being taken by people with a cough. The doctors would not allow that. It is a problem when the number of people who need ventilators is larger than then number available. How can you not see this?

I do. Italy is particularly bad for a number of reasons: average age, tactile culture, air pollution and attendant respiratory problems. That being said, there is still no evidence that “more people than usual” are dying because of this in Italy. Much of the same holds for Wuhan and Iran. You cannot apply that to the rest of the world. Why is the media not using Germany as a benchmark?

Because German deaths are the epitome of fake news. Germany does not do post mortem testing and routinely attributes deaths to an underlying condition instead of coronavirus.

Every time a Reddit post appears on Germany, all the Germans pile in about how misleading their death statistics are.

Switzerland is very similar. It has the second highest per capita rate in the world after Italy (excluding the tiny nation states) and the death rate is also relatively low (but not as low as Germany). It also has a very deliberate policy of prioritizing treatment of Swiss nationals over foreign legal residents despite being home to several international organizations, as well as large pharmaceutical companies that have multinational work forces.

They’re all off the mark because there is no “mark” currently, so it becomes a matter of perspective. There is no uniform
methodology between the data sets. More and more experts are coming out saying that Corona virus should not be blamed as the cause of these incremental deaths. Why run with the boogeyman scariest sounding data set and methodology? Many have already said that Italy is not a good comp because of the poor air quality and the old age. China, South Korea, Japan are all back on the path to normal life...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a country of OLD PEOPLE. Maybe it's time to die: peacefully, at home.

Who really wants their last gasp to be on a respirator in a hospital bed anyway?

You have to die eventually. Do it surrounded by family.

It's not just old people who are dying. But let them eat cake, right Trumpsters?

Most of the younger people who have died from this had other underlying conditions. And even at this it is still mostly old people dying on that manner. Average age reports of over 80. Very very few healthy young people with no other underlying conditions have died from this.

You know people with underlying conditions can hear you, right?

Sure, the point is not to diminish the deaths. It is that the scare factor is greatly exaggerated. If we didn’t have every tom, dick and harry with a minor cough running to hospitals thinking they’re going to die, they might be better positioned to serve the elderly and those with underlying conditions who are actually at threat from this virus.

"Everyone dies alone"

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-everyone-dies-alone-heartbreak-at-the-italian-hospital-on-the-brink-of-collapse-11961130

If that video doesn't scare you, PP above, then you are not human.

The excess mortality rate for many of the “hardest hit” countries in Europe show negligible if any uptick in deaths vis a vis similar periods in previous years. We just didn’t have video and imagery blasts from hospitals during those periods. This is a sad situation, for sure. But it’s maddening that the hype has made it much much worse than it needed to be and contributed to overwhelming some hospital systems.

so you just don't care that people are being turned away from hospitals because there aren't enough beds. And those beds are NOT being taken by people with a cough. The doctors would not allow that. It is a problem when the number of people who need ventilators is larger than then number available. How can you not see this?

I do. Italy is particularly bad for a number of reasons: average age, tactile culture, air pollution and attendant respiratory problems. That being said, there is still no evidence that “more people than usual” are dying because of this in Italy. Much of the same holds for Wuhan and Iran. You cannot apply that to the rest of the world. Why is the media not using Germany as a benchmark?

Because German deaths are the epitome of fake news. Germany does not do post mortem testing and routinely attributes deaths to an underlying condition instead of coronavirus.

Every time a Reddit post appears on Germany, all the Germans pile in about how misleading their death statistics are.

Switzerland is very similar. It has the second highest per capita rate in the world after Italy (excluding the tiny nation states) and the death rate is also relatively low (but not as low as Germany). It also has a very deliberate policy of prioritizing treatment of Swiss nationals over foreign legal residents despite being home to several international organizations, as well as large pharmaceutical companies that have multinational work forces.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a country of OLD PEOPLE. Maybe it's time to die: peacefully, at home.

Who really wants their last gasp to be on a respirator in a hospital bed anyway?

You have to die eventually. Do it surrounded by family.

It's not just old people who are dying. But let them eat cake, right Trumpsters?

Most of the younger people who have died from this had other underlying conditions. And even at this it is still mostly old people dying on that manner. Average age reports of over 80. Very very few healthy young people with no other underlying conditions have died from this.

You know people with underlying conditions can hear you, right?

Sure, the point is not to diminish the deaths. It is that the scare factor is greatly exaggerated. If we didn’t have every tom, dick and harry with a minor cough running to hospitals thinking they’re going to die, they might be better positioned to serve the elderly and those with underlying conditions who are actually at threat from this virus.

"Everyone dies alone"

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-everyone-dies-alone-heartbreak-at-the-italian-hospital-on-the-brink-of-collapse-11961130

If that video doesn't scare you, PP above, then you are not human.

The excess mortality rate for many of the “hardest hit” countries in Europe show negligible if any uptick in deaths vis a vis similar periods in previous years. We just didn’t have video and imagery blasts from hospitals during those periods. This is a sad situation, for sure. But it’s maddening that the hype has made it much much worse than it needed to be and contributed to overwhelming some hospital systems.

Can you provide data to back it up? Since this is a new disease, those are all new deaths. You need to carry a form to go out buy groceries in Italy. Without this type of lockdown, the number of deaths could be even higher. The death rate for Covid-19 is 1.3% for USA and 8.5% for Italy. The flu has a death rate of 0.1%.

New disease does not necessarily mean new death (i.e. death that would not have happened but for corona) because there are confounders. In one Italian study 99% of deaths were patients that had one or more comorbidities.

The rates you cite are far too high. Remember, only the symptomatic and worst cases are even being tested right now due to short supply of tests. There are plenty of people walking around with CV who have not been tested for it and probably never will be. Positive tests are over represented currently, and probably rightly so.

These are released weekly. Nothing is airtight with ANY data set coming out right now, because of the mania, but this does give some pause.

https://www.euromomo.eu/index.html

The death rate is from the official numbers released. We have enough sample size -- 20,000 for US and 48,000 for Italy -- that the death rate calculated has a high confidence of being accurate. If we have more testing, we will also have more deaths that were attributed to 'flu' or 'pneumonia'. There is no dispute Covid-19 is more contagious and deadly than regular flu. The key failure for the US government is the leadership believed this is just another glorified flu and wasted two months to not act.

Yes and the “official” numbers released all have massive problems and biases. Don’t appeal to authority. You are acting like these are data sets from journals in peer reviewed articles lol, please. Everything is a rush job right now.

The actual fatality of COVID 19 vis a vis common flu actually IS under dispute. More commentators and analyses are coming out crunching numbers and questioning the mainstream narrative.

This is real life. We make decisions on the fly with messy data. Just like war. In real life, we are generals, not historians. We don't have the luxury of waiting for better information.

ALL of the evidence is that this is more deadly than the flu. All of it. Even accounting for the uncertainties (there are methods for dealing with that). But even with years of well-established data, many people still don't get a flu shot. Why should this be different?

You can say it as many times as you like, that does not make it true. And even if so, the question remains whether it will be worth this MASSIVE overreaction. I wager the answer is no. And it will become increasingly clear as time passes. The need to take ANY kind of action is not the same as the need to take THIS action. We have let fear win.

Swear to god, some people just like being contrary.

It’s not a matter of being contrary. It’s a matter of calibrating the response to the scale of the threat. I fear we have badly missed it here and will be paying for it for a while. [b]No one is saying this isn’t serious.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a country of OLD PEOPLE. Maybe it's time to die: peacefully, at home.

Who really wants their last gasp to be on a respirator in a hospital bed anyway?

You have to die eventually. Do it surrounded by family.

It's not just old people who are dying. But let them eat cake, right Trumpsters?

Most of the younger people who have died from this had other underlying conditions. And even at this it is still mostly old people dying on that manner. Average age reports of over 80. Very very few healthy young people with no other underlying conditions have died from this.

You know people with underlying conditions can hear you, right?

Sure, the point is not to diminish the deaths. It is that the scare factor is greatly exaggerated. If we didn’t have every tom, dick and harry with a minor cough running to hospitals thinking they’re going to die, they might be better positioned to serve the elderly and those with underlying conditions who are actually at threat from this virus.

"Everyone dies alone"

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-everyone-dies-alone-heartbreak-at-the-italian-hospital-on-the-brink-of-collapse-11961130

If that video doesn't scare you, PP above, then you are not human.

The excess mortality rate for many of the “hardest hit” countries in Europe show negligible if any uptick in deaths vis a vis similar periods in previous years. We just didn’t have video and imagery blasts from hospitals during those periods. This is a sad situation, for sure. But it’s maddening that the hype has made it much much worse than it needed to be and contributed to overwhelming some hospital systems.

so you just don't care that people are being turned away from hospitals because there aren't enough beds. And those beds are NOT being taken by people with a cough. The doctors would not allow that. It is a problem when the number of people who need ventilators is larger than then number available. How can you not see this?

I do. Italy is particularly bad for a number of reasons: average age, tactile culture, air pollution and attendant respiratory problems. That being said, there is still no evidence that “more people than usual” are dying because of this in Italy. Much of the same holds for Wuhan and Iran. You cannot apply that to the rest of the world. Why is the media not using Germany as a benchmark?

Because German deaths are the epitome of fake news. Germany does not do post mortem testing and routinely attributes deaths to an underlying condition instead of coronavirus.

Every time a Reddit post appears on Germany, all the Germans pile in about how misleading their death statistics are.

Switzerland is very similar. It has the second highest per capita rate in the world after Italy (excluding the tiny nation states) and the death rate is also relatively low (but not as low as Germany). It also has a very deliberate policy of prioritizing treatment of Swiss nationals over foreign legal residents despite being home to several international organizations, as well as large pharmaceutical companies that have multinational work forces.

They’re all off the mark because there is no “mark” currently, so it becomes a matter of perspective. There is no uniform
methodology between the data sets. More and more experts are coming out saying that Corona virus should not be blamed as the cause of these incremental deaths. Why run with the boogeyman scariest sounding data set and methodology? Many have already said that Italy is not a good comp because of the poor air quality and the old age. China, South Korea, Japan are all back on the path to normal life...

Three months later...

Also, life is not normal in China right now, although they're saying that it is.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know the drug that Trump is touting as a possible treatment for coronavirus? Without evidence and over the warnings of his health officials?

Nigeria is seeing poisonings as people take it in a bid to ward off the virus:


https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-21/nigeria-reports-chloroquine-poisonings-after-trump-praised-drug

I believe this is from self medicating though, not with the advice and instructions from a doctor on dosage etc. I ran out of Bloomberg articles for the month

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's a country of OLD PEOPLE. Maybe it's time to die: peacefully, at home.

Who really wants their last gasp to be on a respirator in a hospital bed anyway?

You have to die eventually. Do it surrounded by family.

It's not just old people who are dying. But let them eat cake, right Trumpsters?

Most of the younger people who have died from this had other underlying conditions. And even at this it is still mostly old people dying on that manner. Average age reports of over 80. Very very few healthy young people with no other underlying conditions have died from this.

You know people with underlying conditions can hear you, right?

Sure, the point is not to diminish the deaths. It is that the scare factor is greatly exaggerated. If we didn’t have every tom, dick and harry with a minor cough running to hospitals thinking they’re going to die, they might be better positioned to serve the elderly and those with underlying conditions who are actually at threat from this virus.

"Everyone dies alone"

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-everyone-dies-alone-heartbreak-at-the-italian-hospital-on-the-brink-of-collapse-11961130

If that video doesn't scare you, PP above, then you are not human.

The excess mortality rate for many of the “hardest hit” countries in Europe show negligible if any uptick in deaths vis a vis similar periods in previous years. We just didn’t have video and imagery blasts from hospitals during those periods. This is a sad situation, for sure. But it’s maddening that the hype has made it much much worse than it needed to be and contributed to overwhelming some hospital systems.

so you just don't care that people are being turned away from hospitals because there aren't enough beds. And those beds are NOT being taken by people with a cough. The doctors would not allow that. It is a problem when the number of people who need ventilators is larger than then number available. How can you not see this?

I do. Italy is particularly bad for a number of reasons: average age, tactile culture, air pollution and attendant respiratory problems. That being said, there is still no evidence that “more people than usual” are dying because of this in Italy. Much of the same holds for Wuhan and Iran. You cannot apply that to the rest of the world. Why is the media not using Germany as a benchmark?

Because German deaths are the epitome of fake news. Germany does not do post mortem testing and routinely attributes deaths to an underlying condition instead of coronavirus.

Every time a Reddit post appears on Germany, all the Germans pile in about how misleading their death statistics are.

Switzerland is very similar. It has the second highest per capita rate in the world after Italy (excluding the tiny nation states) and the death rate is also relatively low (but not as low as Germany). It also has a very deliberate policy of prioritizing treatment of Swiss nationals over foreign legal residents despite being home to several international organizations, as well as large pharmaceutical companies that have multinational work forces.

They’re all off the mark because there is no “mark” currently, so it becomes a matter of perspective. There is no uniform
methodology between the data sets. More and more experts are coming out saying that Corona virus should not be blamed as the cause of these incremental deaths. Why run with the boogeyman scariest sounding data set and methodology? Many have already said that Italy is not a good comp because of the poor air quality and the old age. China, South Korea, Japan are all back on the path to normal life...