Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm glad that kids are branching out at UVA. It may be a plus that they like their high school friends and want to keep hanging out with them. No need to get so defensive there Hoos.

No one is being defensive. Just pointing out that, with the possible exception of TJ, Virginia public high schools aren't sending whole hordes of friends off to UVA together. Admissions are too competitive. In my case, two daughters went to UVA but none of their close friends got in.

TJ is about 2% or less of UVA and W&M undergraduate enrollment. That isn't that big of a concentration from one school. And some of the high schools are so large that the students that attend may not have even known each other other than in passing.

That's why I said [b]possible exception. But c'mon, if 100+ kids from the same high school go to the same college chances are there are good friends among them.

[/b]


Name one single high school that sends (actually sends) 100 students to UVA. You can't do it. Even Langley and McLean send only a few - they might have a larger aount accepted but that's not the same and entering. The very top students in VA use UVA as a backup in case they don't get into Ivy (case in point my DD). Even in her mega public high school only six actually showed up at UVA. The myth of 13th year of high school is totally a myth by those who couldn't get iin. In my DS's school, only two got into UVA and both went. They never have seen each other since the first year.

McLean consistently has over 50 kids admitted to UVA are ends up sending about 35. I’ve heard that’s also the case at South Lakes. So that’s more than a “few.” PP was probably referring to TJ sending over 100 kids to UVA. Maybe Robinson also did at the peak of its enrollment when it had graduating classes well over 700.

It would be more typical for two kids per year to go to Duke.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm glad that kids are branching out at UVA. It may be a plus that they like their high school friends and want to keep hanging out with them. No need to get so defensive there Hoos.

No one is being defensive. Just pointing out that, with the possible exception of TJ, Virginia public high schools aren't sending whole hordes of friends off to UVA together. Admissions are too competitive. In my case, two daughters went to UVA but none of their close friends got in.

TJ is about 2% or less of UVA and W&M undergraduate enrollment. That isn't that big of a concentration from one school. And some of the high schools are so large that the students that attend may not have even known each other other than in passing.

That's why I said [b]possible exception. But c'mon, if 100+ kids from the same high school go to the same college chances are there are good friends among them.

[/b]


Name one single high school that sends (actually sends) 100 students to UVA. You can't do it. Even Langley and McLean send only a few - they might have a larger aount accepted but that's not the same and entering. The very top students in VA use UVA as a backup in case they don't get into Ivy (case in point my DD). Even in her mega public high school only six actually showed up at UVA. The myth of 13th year of high school is totally a myth by those who couldn't get iin. In my DS's school, only two got into UVA and both went. They never have seen each other since the first year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to an Ivy but was accepted to both Duke and UVA.

Duke offers more of an Ivy-like experience, but think Dartmouth-like behavior in faux-Princeton buildings with some Penn-like professional schools. I’m not sure the arrogant frat-boy culture at Duke is unique, but it is more obvious because the frats are right in the center of West Campus (or at least they used to be), not on the fringe as at many schools.

UVA has certain elements of a private-school culture, due to its history and location, but once you get outside the main grounds it’s basically like any other state university, which means most live off-campus and have to take ownership of their education because they aren’t going to be coddled like they would be at some pricey SLAC.

This. OP raised a wrong question.

Yes Duke is only marginally better in terms of reputation. And yes UVa is definetely cheaper. But why is UVa so much cheaper? Obviosly that’s because it’s a state school. So how come so many parents send their kids to pricey private colleges when they can send kids to cheaper public institutes? That’s because there are other intangibles that they can obtain only at private schools like better student care, connections with wealthy people, etc.

So the question should be whether the OP should pay the premium for those intangibles (plus marginally better reputation) at Duke.

Duke is more than marginally better than UVA in reputation. I don't disagree with the rest of your cost/benefit analysis. But I do disagree with "marginally".

Last year's US News reputation rankings -- not overall rankings, just reputation -- had Duke tied for 12th and UVA tied for 21st. There was a 3 way tied for 14th and a 4 way tie for 17th, then you're at 21. So the difference between 12 and 21 is actually pretty marginal.

UVA was tied with Vanderbilt, was ahead of Rice, Notre Dame, Wash U and Georgetown, and just behind Dartmouth and Carnegie Mellon.

But you are comparing apples to oranges. One can't compare a public flagship with a private. They serve different purposes. If you return to USN&WR and look in the appropriate category, that of rankings of Public universities where UVA ranks no 4 in the nation. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/top-public

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:am i wrong or are the last dozen or so posts on this thread by somebody who doesn't speak english?

What was the giveaway? Did they not show proper capitalization?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm glad that kids are branching out at UVA. It may be a plus that they like their high school friends and want to keep hanging out with them. No need to get so defensive there Hoos.

No one is being defensive. Just pointing out that, with the possible exception of TJ, Virginia public high schools aren't sending whole hordes of friends off to UVA together. Admissions are too competitive. In my case, two daughters went to UVA but none of their close friends got in.

TJ is about 2% or less of UVA and W&M undergraduate enrollment. That isn't that big of a concentration from one school. And some of the high schools are so large that the students that attend may not have even known each other other than in passing.

That's why I said [b]possible exception. But c'mon, if 100+ kids from the same high school go to the same college chances are there are good friends among them.

[/b]


Name one single high school that sends (actually sends) 100 students to UVA. You can't do it. Even Langley and McLean send only a few - they might have a larger aount accepted but that's not the same and entering. The very top students in VA use UVA as a backup in case they don't get into Ivy (case in point my DD). Even in her mega public high school only six actually showed up at UVA. The myth of 13th year of high school is totally a myth by those who couldn't get iin. In my DS's school, only two got into UVA and both went. They never have seen each other since the first year.

It doesn't have to be 100 kids. My DS's high school sent 6 kids to UVA and they all hang out together. If you want UVA to be considered a top school, stop saying it a myth. Your anecdote doesn't make it untrue any more than mine makes it untrue, but trying to say that my DS didn't get into UVA with his stats is laughable. Reason and logic > name calling. These are the things we learn at top schools, and your faulty arguments are making UVA look less appealing.

Anonymous wrote:am i wrong or are the last dozen or so posts on this thread by somebody who doesn't speak english?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to an Ivy but was accepted to both Duke and UVA.

Duke offers more of an Ivy-like experience, but think Dartmouth-like behavior in faux-Princeton buildings with some Penn-like professional schools. I’m not sure the arrogant frat-boy culture at Duke is unique, but it is more obvious because the frats are right in the center of West Campus (or at least they used to be), not on the fringe as at many schools.

UVA has certain elements of a private-school culture, due to its history and location, but once you get outside the main grounds it’s basically like any other state university, which means most live off-campus and have to take ownership of their education because they aren’t going to be coddled like they would be at some pricey SLAC.

This. OP raised a wrong question.

Yes Duke is only marginally better in terms of reputation. And yes UVa is definetely cheaper. But why is UVa so much cheaper? Obviosly that’s because it’s a state school. So how come so many parents send their kids to pricey private colleges when they can send kids to cheaper public institutes? That’s because there are other intangibles that they can obtain only at private schools like better student care, connections with wealthy people, etc.

So the question should be whether the OP should pay the premium for those intangibles (plus marginally better reputation) at Duke.

Duke is more than marginally better than UVA in reputation. I don't disagree with the rest of your cost/benefit analysis. But I do disagree with "marginally".

Last year's US News reputation rankings -- not overall rankings, just reputation -- had Duke tied for 12th and UVA tied for 21st. There was a 3 way tied for 14th and a 4 way tie for 17th, then you're at 21. So the difference between 12 and 21 is actually pretty marginal.

UVA was tied with Vanderbilt, was ahead of Rice, Notre Dame, Wash U and Georgetown, and just behind Dartmouth and Carnegie Mellon.

But you are comparing apples to oranges. One can't compare a public flagship with a private. They serve different purposes. If you return to USN&WR and look in the appropriate category, that of rankings of Public universities where UVA ranks no 4 in the nation. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/top-public

Of course you can compare a public school with a private. They are both schools people can choose to attend.

Not when it comes to rankings which is what a PP was trying to do. A much better category and way of comparing schools is to compare SLACs only against SLACs; LACs against LACs, and public flagships against one another, which is why USN&WR provides a separate rankings for public universities, in which UVA comes in 4th in the nation. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/top-public

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm glad that kids are branching out at UVA. It may be a plus that they like their high school friends and want to keep hanging out with them. No need to get so defensive there Hoos.

No one is being defensive. Just pointing out that, with the possible exception of TJ, Virginia public high schools aren't sending whole hordes of friends off to UVA together. Admissions are too competitive. In my case, two daughters went to UVA but none of their close friends got in.

TJ is about 2% or less of UVA and W&M undergraduate enrollment. That isn't that big of a concentration from one school. And some of the high schools are so large that the students that attend may not have even known each other other than in passing.

That's why I said [b]possible exception. But c'mon, if 100+ kids from the same high school go to the same college chances are there are good friends among them.

[/b]


Name one single high school that sends (actually sends) 100 students to UVA. You can't do it. Even Langley and McLean send only a few - they might have a larger aount accepted but that's not the same and entering. The very top students in VA use UVA as a backup in case they don't get into Ivy (case in point my DD). Even in her mega public high school only six actually showed up at UVA. The myth of 13th year of high school is totally a myth by those who couldn't get iin. In my DS's school, only two got into UVA and both went. They never have seen each other since the first year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to an Ivy but was accepted to both Duke and UVA.

Duke offers more of an Ivy-like experience, but think Dartmouth-like behavior in faux-Princeton buildings with some Penn-like professional schools. I’m not sure the arrogant frat-boy culture at Duke is unique, but it is more obvious because the frats are right in the center of West Campus (or at least they used to be), not on the fringe as at many schools.

UVA has certain elements of a private-school culture, due to its history and location, but once you get outside the main grounds it’s basically like any other state university, which means most live off-campus and have to take ownership of their education because they aren’t going to be coddled like they would be at some pricey SLAC.

This. OP raised a wrong question.

Yes Duke is only marginally better in terms of reputation. And yes UVa is definetely cheaper. But why is UVa so much cheaper? Obviosly that’s because it’s a state school. So how come so many parents send their kids to pricey private colleges when they can send kids to cheaper public institutes? That’s because there are other intangibles that they can obtain only at private schools like better student care, connections with wealthy people, etc.

So the question should be whether the OP should pay the premium for those intangibles (plus marginally better reputation) at Duke.

Duke is more than marginally better than UVA in reputation. I don't disagree with the rest of your cost/benefit analysis. But I do disagree with "marginally".

Last year's US News reputation rankings -- not overall rankings, just reputation -- had Duke tied for 12th and UVA tied for 21st. There was a 3 way tied for 14th and a 4 way tie for 17th, then you're at 21. So the difference between 12 and 21 is actually pretty marginal.

UVA was tied with Vanderbilt, was ahead of Rice, Notre Dame, Wash U and Georgetown, and just behind Dartmouth and Carnegie Mellon.

But you are comparing apples to oranges. One can't compare a public flagship with a private. They serve different purposes. If you return to USN&WR and look in the appropriate category, that of rankings of Public universities where UVA ranks no 4 in the nation. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/top-public

Of course you can compare a public school with a private. They are both schools people can choose to attend.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to an Ivy but was accepted to both Duke and UVA.

Duke offers more of an Ivy-like experience, but think Dartmouth-like behavior in faux-Princeton buildings with some Penn-like professional schools. I’m not sure the arrogant frat-boy culture at Duke is unique, but it is more obvious because the frats are right in the center of West Campus (or at least they used to be), not on the fringe as at many schools.

UVA has certain elements of a private-school culture, due to its history and location, but once you get outside the main grounds it’s basically like any other state university, which means most live off-campus and have to take ownership of their education because they aren’t going to be coddled like they would be at some pricey SLAC.

This. OP raised a wrong question.

Yes Duke is only marginally better in terms of reputation. And yes UVa is definetely cheaper. But why is UVa so much cheaper? Obviosly that’s because it’s a state school. So how come so many parents send their kids to pricey private colleges when they can send kids to cheaper public institutes? That’s because there are other intangibles that they can obtain only at private schools like better student care, connections with wealthy people, etc.
\

But I think that is the point of this thread. Those "intangibles" of going to Duke v a great flagship no longer exist. Once upon a time when there wasn't such a huge difference in cost yes maybe it made sense to spend that kind of money on undergraduate but now the smart money is sending their children for undergraduate to state flagships and then saving their money for grad school which can be over 100K a year. Everyone now is expected to have an undergrad degree. That wasn't the case 25 years ago. It's absurd to spend these prices at $80K a year on "intangibles" when you can get a great education at a state university or even better, go community college for two years and enter UVA or UCLA or Berkeley on the guaranteed admission program. That's where the smart money is now.

So the question should be whether the OP should pay the premium for those intangibles (plus marginally better reputation) at Duke.

See your thinking is very middle classy. Trying to look for best bang for the buck. Those state schools attract people like you. Nothing wrong with it. Usually ambitious and bright middle class kids.

But undergraduate reputation still matters. There are plenty of upper class people who are willing to pay $80k. Their kids will meet similarly wealthy kids at private colleges. It’s true that private colleges try to attract kids from the low infome families. But the main stream at Duke and other top privates are always rich kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to an Ivy but was accepted to both Duke and UVA.

Duke offers more of an Ivy-like experience, but think Dartmouth-like behavior in faux-Princeton buildings with some Penn-like professional schools. I’m not sure the arrogant frat-boy culture at Duke is unique, but it is more obvious because the frats are right in the center of West Campus (or at least they used to be), not on the fringe as at many schools.

UVA has certain elements of a private-school culture, due to its history and location, but once you get outside the main grounds it’s basically like any other state university, which means most live off-campus and have to take ownership of their education because they aren’t going to be coddled like they would be at some pricey SLAC.

This. OP raised a wrong question.

Yes Duke is only marginally better in terms of reputation. And yes UVa is definetely cheaper. But why is UVa so much cheaper? Obviosly that’s because it’s a state school. So how come so many parents send their kids to pricey private colleges when they can send kids to cheaper public institutes? That’s because there are other intangibles that they can obtain only at private schools like better student care, connections with wealthy people, etc.

So the question should be whether the OP should pay the premium for those intangibles (plus marginally better reputation) at Duke.

Duke is more than marginally better than UVA in reputation. I don't disagree with the rest of your cost/benefit analysis. But I do disagree with "marginally".

Last year's US News reputation rankings -- not overall rankings, just reputation -- had Duke tied for 12th and UVA tied for 21st. There was a 3 way tied for 14th and a 4 way tie for 17th, then you're at 21. So the difference between 12 and 21 is actually pretty marginal.

UVA was tied with Vanderbilt, was ahead of Rice, Notre Dame, Wash U and Georgetown, and just behind Dartmouth and Carnegie Mellon.

But you are comparing apples to oranges. One can't compare a public flagship with a private. They serve different purposes. If you return to USN&WR and look in the appropriate category, that of rankings of Public universities where UVA ranks no 4 in the nation. https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/top-public

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to an Ivy but was accepted to both Duke and UVA.

Duke offers more of an Ivy-like experience, but think Dartmouth-like behavior in faux-Princeton buildings with some Penn-like professional schools. I’m not sure the arrogant frat-boy culture at Duke is unique, but it is more obvious because the frats are right in the center of West Campus (or at least they used to be), not on the fringe as at many schools.

UVA has certain elements of a private-school culture, due to its history and location, but once you get outside the main grounds it’s basically like any other state university, which means most live off-campus and have to take ownership of their education because they aren’t going to be coddled like they would be at some pricey SLAC.

This. OP raised a wrong question.

Yes Duke is only marginally better in terms of reputation. And yes UVa is definetely cheaper. But why is UVa so much cheaper? Obviosly that’s because it’s a state school. So how come so many parents send their kids to pricey private colleges when they can send kids to cheaper public institutes? That’s because there are other intangibles that they can obtain only at private schools like better student care, connections with wealthy people, etc.
\

But I think that is the point of this thread. Those "intangibles" of going to Duke v a great flagship no longer exist. Once upon a time when there wasn't such a huge difference in cost yes maybe it made sense to spend that kind of money on undergraduate but now the smart money is sending their children for undergraduate to state flagships and then saving their money for grad school which can be over 100K a year. Everyone now is expected to have an undergrad degree. That wasn't the case 25 years ago. It's absurd to spend these prices at $80K a year on "intangibles" when you can get a great education at a state university or even better, go community college for two years and enter UVA or UCLA or Berkeley on the guaranteed admission program. That's where the smart money is now.

So the question should be whether the OP should pay the premium for those intangibles (plus marginally better reputation) at Duke.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to an Ivy but was accepted to both Duke and UVA.

Duke offers more of an Ivy-like experience, but think Dartmouth-like behavior in faux-Princeton buildings with some Penn-like professional schools. I’m not sure the arrogant frat-boy culture at Duke is unique, but it is more obvious because the frats are right in the center of West Campus (or at least they used to be), not on the fringe as at many schools.

UVA has certain elements of a private-school culture, due to its history and location, but once you get outside the main grounds it’s basically like any other state university, which means most live off-campus and have to take ownership of their education because they aren’t going to be coddled like they would be at some pricey SLAC.

This. OP raised a wrong question.

Yes Duke is only marginally better in terms of reputation. And yes UVa is definetely cheaper. But why is UVa so much cheaper? Obviosly that’s because it’s a state school. So how come so many parents send their kids to pricey private colleges when they can send kids to cheaper public institutes? That’s because there are other intangibles that they can obtain only at private schools like better student care, connections with wealthy people, etc.

So the question should be whether the OP should pay the premium for those intangibles (plus marginally better reputation) at Duke.

Duke is more than marginally better than UVA in reputation. I don't disagree with the rest of your cost/benefit analysis. But I do disagree with "marginally".

Last year's US News reputation rankings -- not overall rankings, just reputation -- had Duke tied for 12th and UVA tied for 21st. There was a 3 way tied for 14th and a 4 way tie for 17th, then you're at 21. So the difference between 12 and 21 is actually pretty marginal.

UVA was tied with Vanderbilt, was ahead of Rice, Notre Dame, Wash U and Georgetown, and just behind Dartmouth and Carnegie Mellon.