Anonymous
11/26/2019 15:10
Subject: Playing time expectations
Supply and demand. Respond to this thread if you’re a club that’s willing to guarantee 50% playing time for all those that tried out and offered a roster spot.
Anonymous
11/26/2019 14:46
Subject: Playing time expectations
As a parent, I would always prefer my child not make a team if a coach doesn't see them as good enough to play on it. Club's do that all the time though: put players on a team because there are available roster spots. A short term pain is better than a year of a slow death by a 1000 small cuts.
Anonymous
11/26/2019 14:27
Subject: Playing time expectations
Anonymous wrote:Life isn’t fair. Life is survival of the fittest. Opportunity is awarded to the most prepared. Work hard, play hard. All of these and many other similar quotes needs to be shared with your kids. Don’t expect to just show up and expect what you deserve.
I understand that since you paid to be on the team, you think your DC deserve equal playing time. The unfortunate reality is that coaches/teams need to win to retain their players and to also recruit new players. Again, there are way too many teams/clubs in the DMV that compete to get/attract players. It’s the parents that focuses on wins and move their DC to the top winning teams thinking it’s best for their DC’s development and opportunity for D1 college.
I’m not supporting one view or another, my point is that some parents view that their DC is the top 1/3 of the team and deserve more playing time as this gets them the league or tournament trophy and attract more and better players. While the parents of the less talented players feel that they should get 50% of the playing time. I am not a coach, but I think a coach would have no choice but try to best balance this situation.
I know from the real cases that coach would try to push out less talented players by giving them 10 minutes in away games after 5x2 hours driving by parents or on the team bus.
probably happening on u15/u16, So you got the message and then have your own decision for the next season.
Anonymous
11/26/2019 13:36
Subject: Playing time expectations
Life isn’t fair. Life is survival of the fittest. Opportunity is awarded to the most prepared. Work hard, play hard. All of these and many other similar quotes needs to be shared with your kids. Don’t expect to just show up and expect what you deserve.
I understand that since you paid to be on the team, you think your DC deserve equal playing time. The unfortunate reality is that coaches/teams need to win to retain their players and to also recruit new players. Again, there are way too many teams/clubs in the DMV that compete to get/attract players. It’s the parents that focuses on wins and move their DC to the top winning teams thinking it’s best for their DC’s development and opportunity for D1 college.
I’m not supporting one view or another, my point is that some parents view that their DC is the top 1/3 of the team and deserve more playing time as this gets them the league or tournament trophy and attract more and better players. While the parents of the less talented players feel that they should get 50% of the playing time. I am not a coach, but I think a coach would have no choice but try to best balance this situation.
I understand that since you paid to be on the team, you think your DC deserve equal playing time. The unfortunate reality is that coaches/teams need to win to retain their players and to also recruit new players. Again, there are way too many teams/clubs in the DMV that compete to get/attract players. It’s the parents that focuses on wins and move their DC to the top winning teams thinking it’s best for their DC’s development and opportunity for D1 college.
I’m not supporting one view or another, my point is that some parents view that their DC is the top 1/3 of the team and deserve more playing time as this gets them the league or tournament trophy and attract more and better players. While the parents of the less talented players feel that they should get 50% of the playing time. I am not a coach, but I think a coach would have no choice but try to best balance this situation.
Anonymous
11/26/2019 13:34
Subject: Re:Playing time expectations
Anonymous wrote:PP, I'm re-writing this for you.
Well, I can try real hard and never [make] COACH a Premier League Team.
Start with trying TO COACH. Start with asking the [coach] PLAYER TO MAKE [what] improvements [need to be made] and EXPLAIN how to go about improving them.
Start with being an adult and talking to the PLAYER AND THE PARENTS [other adult] INSTEAD OF BENCHING KIDS. At U10 this is not on your child to do but ON THE COACH TO TALK TO YOUR PLAYER AND you [ need to act on their behalf].
Perhaps not playing your kid in a situation that they are in over their head is a way the coach is trying keep them competitive. Perhaps the coach has asked your kid to go in but your kid doesn't like the position so they say no. This does happen and especially at this age, SO IF THAT IS HAPPENING, THE COACH SHOULD TELL THE PARENTS. The kid is getting 50% of the game which is the minimum in Rec and is a reasonable expectation for playing time. COACHES SHOULD TEACH EACH PLAYER [your kid] to do what it takes to stay on the field once there. It is a travel sport and PARENTS ARE PAYING THE COACH AND CLUB TO DO THESE THINGS. [if you think this sucks at U10 you are going to be in for a rough ride in a couple of years when winning does matter. Wait till your kid sits an entire game in High School.]
INSTEAD OF BLAMING PARENTS OR CHILDREN FOR NOT UNDERSTANDING, COACHES SHOULD COMMUNICATE. [Get over it or get better. One last time, your options are:]
1. Talk to the [coach] PLAYER AND/OR PARENTS and ENCOURAGE THE PLAYER TO work on needed areas. (This will not be an instant solution as improvement is never instant and other kids are working to get better as well.)
2. IF THE COACH DETERMINES THAT THE PLAYER IS NOT AT THE RIGHT LEVEL FOR THE TEAM, HELP THE FAMILY Find a team at a more appropriate level [ for your kid].
[3. Play rec.]
Remember, it is a team sport and the only way a team improves and gets better is if COACHES CARE ABOUT ALL PLAYERS AND HELP all the players bring something to the team. If your player isn't being impactful on the field in a game then your COACH IS NOT HELPING YOUR kid HELP [is not helping] the team.
It is November. 1 half of a 3 month season for a 9 year old. Your child hasn’t been ruined in 3 months. Take your concerns to the coach now that the Fall season is over. Get over yourself and talk to the coach about your concerns. In general you are waaaaay over reacting at this stage.
Anonymous
11/26/2019 13:01
Subject: Playing time expectations
The rec requirement is 50%. You need to stand down. Work harder or drop a team level.
Is the kid’s family paying the same as everyone else? If so, then he/she needs to play as much as they can. 50% is not a goal. It is a mininum that sometimes results when a team has lots of subs and coordination of subs can often get screwed up. Still it is a coaches job to keep track. And as pretty much every even half way decent coach can do that - if you have 2 subs and they are only playing half a game it is intentional.
Have a talk with the coaching director and if not satisfied then walk and demand a proportional percentage of your money back. Let them know you will be talking to the other parents as well. Explore other club options for the kid ASAP. Most clubs can still take on a kid at that level.
Here’s the thing, between u9 and u18 your kid will play in exactly zero club games that matter or are in any way important. Club soccer exists to improve players, not teams. Ever do a coaching license clinic? From E to national A it is all about how best to improve individual players in a team practice construct.
Players should always play and practice hard, and the coach should work hard to make every player better. If a player is on a team and doing the work then they get to play. How much? As much as reasonably possible. Leagues and clubs will often put out a 50% minimum but that is a minimum. Think of it as a 60mph minimum on the freeway. No one drives the minimum but it is there as a guideline.
If you have a coach who is worried about winning more than improving all the players - fire him or her and get a good coach.
As said before - if there is a kid you don’t want to play on the field as much as everyone else then don’t put the kid on the team, and don’t take their money. I would add, over the years I have seen once when a kid just was misjudged at tryouts. I want to say it was u11 but around that time. The kid was athletically behind. I spoke with the kid’s dad a couple years later and learned the club offered to move the kid down to a lower team within the club. They did not want that over concerns about potentially being made fun of for the late move. So the club found her a spot on another local club and paid the cost of her uniforms, refunded the fees paid by the parents and paid $1000 of the cost of the new club.
Finally, if your kid is going to play in college and/or professionally they need to be athletic and fast. They also need to be working by themselves or with a friend or two all of the time. Pretty much everyday that there is no practice. Why? Because that’s what their competition is doing. It sounds nuts. Crazy frankly. But, there you are. I tell the story all the time now about our good friends’ son whose best friend growing up and still today is a Major League Baseball star player. There is not a MLB team that wouldn’t kill to get him now. (I know a front office guy in our local team and I tease him regularly about how they could of gotten him for a bag of baseballs after his rookie year). Starting young and continuing through high school he worked on something almost everyday with his dad. Hitting, fielding, throwing. They had a cage set up in the basement. Sometimes friends would come over. And sometimes school or other sports would require more time. But, I would guess he and his dad probably worked 250 days out of most years on something baseball related between age 8 and 18. Yes he obviously has the physical ability. Lots of kids work hard and just don’t have the coordination to hit a 95 mph fast ball or a curve that stays up a bit. All through middle school and high school you would think he was just another athletic kid if you saw him. Not super big. Not super muscled up. But, the point is - this guy is where he is now because he has the physical abilities and he worked on his skills by himself and with his dad all of the time.
In a much less lucrative way my daughter finally did the same thing in college. She worked hard through her teens but in retrospect obviously not at the level she needed in order to compete. When she got to college she played a fair amount her freshman year - getting time in most every game. She played in only about half the games her sophomore year. Starting after the season she and her boyfriend who played on the men’s team worked on something pretty much every day, and she kept it up through the summer. She worked herself into a position where when a starter got hurt early in the season she went in and kept the position until she graduated. The point being - you have to work more and harder than your competition, and almost all of that work will be outside of a team practice.
Anonymous
11/26/2019 12:35
Subject: Playing time expectations
Anonymous wrote:^Well said, but if I expect my DD’s current and future coaches to be as you said above, I’m setting myself up for a huge disappointment. Some coaches are great communicators, and some are uncomfortable to do/talk as you said due to fear of losing player(s) to other teams/clubs.
Some coaches even hesitate to praise a talented player too due to fear of them going to a better team/league or fear alienating the less talented players.
All of these fear are due to way too many teams/clubs competing to get players.
Amen. I was talking about my ideal. I realize that the unicorn does not exist.
Anonymous
11/26/2019 12:33
Subject: Playing time expectations
^Well said, but if I expect my DD’s current and future coaches to be as you said above, I’m setting myself up for a huge disappointment. Some coaches are great communicators, and some are uncomfortable to do/talk as you said due to fear of losing player(s) to other teams/clubs.
Some coaches even hesitate to praise a talented player too due to fear of them going to a better team/league or fear alienating the less talented players.
All of these fear are due to way too many teams/clubs competing to get players.
Some coaches even hesitate to praise a talented player too due to fear of them going to a better team/league or fear alienating the less talented players.
All of these fear are due to way too many teams/clubs competing to get players.
Anonymous
11/26/2019 12:10
Subject: Re:Playing time expectations
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:PP, I'm re-writing this for you.
Well, I can try real hard and never [make] COACH a Premier League Team.
Start with trying TO COACH. Start with asking the [coach] PLAYER TO MAKE [what] improvements [need to be made] and EXPLAIN how to go about improving them.
Start with being an adult and talking to the PLAYER AND THE PARENTS [other adult] INSTEAD OF BENCHING KIDS. At U10 this is not on your child to do but ON THE COACH TO TALK TO YOUR PLAYER AND you [ need to act on their behalf].
Perhaps not playing your kid in a situation that they are in over their head is a way the coach is trying keep them competitive. Perhaps the coach has asked your kid to go in but your kid doesn't like the position so they say no. This does happen and especially at this age, SO IF THAT IS HAPPENING, THE COACH SHOULD TELL THE PARENTS. The kid is getting 50% of the game which is the minimum in Rec and is a reasonable expectation for playing time. COACHES SHOULD TEACH EACH PLAYER [your kid] to do what it takes to stay on the field once there. It is a travel sport and PARENTS ARE PAYING THE COACH AND CLUB TO DO THESE THINGS. [if you think this sucks at U10 you are going to be in for a rough ride in a couple of years when winning does matter. Wait till your kid sits an entire game in High School.]
INSTEAD OF BLAMING PARENTS OR CHILDREN FOR NOT UNDERSTANDING, COACHES SHOULD COMMUNICATE. [Get over it or get better. One last time, your options are:]
1. Talk to the [coach] PLAYER AND/OR PARENTS and ENCOURAGE THE PLAYER TO work on needed areas. (This will not be an instant solution as improvement is never instant and other kids are working to get better as well.)
2. IF THE COACH DETERMINES THAT THE PLAYER IS NOT AT THE RIGHT LEVEL FOR THE TEAM, HELP THE FAMILY Find a team at a more appropriate level [ for your kid].
[3. Play rec.]
Remember, it is a team sport and the only way a team improves and gets better is if COACHES CARE ABOUT ALL PLAYERS AND HELP all the players bring something to the team. If your player isn't being impactful on the field in a game then your COACH IS NOT HELPING YOUR kid HELP [is not helping] the team.
Some kids are much more coachable than others. Some are more focused than others. Some put in more time to work on their skills outside of practice than others. Some kids understand the game more than others and pay attention of where they should be on the field when directed by the coach. Some kids only play soccer cause of their parents. Hence, it’s up to the coach to teach, but it’s also up the individual players too.
Agreed. My ideal starts with clear standards and expectations established by the coaches and ongoing communication if those standards and expectations aren't being met.
As a PP advocating for coaches to take more responsibility, don't think I want to avoid consequences for shortcomings on the part of my kids if they aren't doing what they need to do. Quite the contrary - the whole point of sports is learning life lessons, including the value of working hard, being coachable, having a good attitude, accepting failure and using it as motivation to work harder. Any reasonable parent would agree.
The problem is that these valuable life lessons are not learned in a vacuum without adult guidance and supervision. There need to be articulated and understood standards. Hell, I would have loved for a coach to tell my kid and me that he goofed off in practice last Thursday so he's not starting or his playing time is limited. That is a valuable lesson. On the other hand, a coach who sits a kid without discussing the reason or never once commenting on ways that a player could improve to get more playing time doesn't teach anything. Kids are not that perceptive; they can't figure out what they are doing wrong. Tell them.
In addition, and this is a biggy for me, the lessons need to have some connection to short term results. Work hard and get better is a useless goal. These are broad objectives that need to be broken down into much smaller steps.
I'll give you an example of what I view as good coaching. One of my kids is hard on himself and gets discouraged when he loses the ball. That's big problem and something he needs to address. If he's not playing for this reason, I would like to see a coach say, "This week in practice, when we are scrimmaging, I need to see you fight as hard as you can to get the ball back - every time." If he doesn't do it, then the coach should tell him that he needs to try more next week. He hasn't earned any change in status. However, if he does it, and the coach tells him he did well, the next game, he should see some benefit from his efforts. Instead what happens in the real world is that the kid does what you told him to do, but the next game, he doesn't play at all because the club is using a guest player in a tournament in order to win. All he learns is that adults are full of it and winning is all that matters.
I also agree that parents should be honest about their kids' level of commitment.
Anonymous
11/26/2019 11:54
Subject: Re:Playing time expectations
Anonymous wrote:PP, I'm re-writing this for you.
Well, I can try real hard and never [make] COACH a Premier League Team.
Start with trying TO COACH. Start with asking the [coach] PLAYER TO MAKE [what] improvements [need to be made] and EXPLAIN how to go about improving them.
Start with being an adult and talking to the PLAYER AND THE PARENTS [other adult] INSTEAD OF BENCHING KIDS. At U10 this is not on your child to do but ON THE COACH TO TALK TO YOUR PLAYER AND you [ need to act on their behalf].
Perhaps not playing your kid in a situation that they are in over their head is a way the coach is trying keep them competitive. Perhaps the coach has asked your kid to go in but your kid doesn't like the position so they say no. This does happen and especially at this age, SO IF THAT IS HAPPENING, THE COACH SHOULD TELL THE PARENTS. The kid is getting 50% of the game which is the minimum in Rec and is a reasonable expectation for playing time. COACHES SHOULD TEACH EACH PLAYER [your kid] to do what it takes to stay on the field once there. It is a travel sport and PARENTS ARE PAYING THE COACH AND CLUB TO DO THESE THINGS. [if you think this sucks at U10 you are going to be in for a rough ride in a couple of years when winning does matter. Wait till your kid sits an entire game in High School.]
INSTEAD OF BLAMING PARENTS OR CHILDREN FOR NOT UNDERSTANDING, COACHES SHOULD COMMUNICATE. [Get over it or get better. One last time, your options are:]
1. Talk to the [coach] PLAYER AND/OR PARENTS and ENCOURAGE THE PLAYER TO work on needed areas. (This will not be an instant solution as improvement is never instant and other kids are working to get better as well.)
2. IF THE COACH DETERMINES THAT THE PLAYER IS NOT AT THE RIGHT LEVEL FOR THE TEAM, HELP THE FAMILY Find a team at a more appropriate level [ for your kid].
[3. Play rec.]
Remember, it is a team sport and the only way a team improves and gets better is if COACHES CARE ABOUT ALL PLAYERS AND HELP all the players bring something to the team. If your player isn't being impactful on the field in a game then your COACH IS NOT HELPING YOUR kid HELP [is not helping] the team.
Some kids are much more coachable than others. Some are more focused than others. Some put in more time to work on their skills outside of practice than others. Some kids understand the game more than others and pay attention of where they should be on the field when directed by the coach. Some kids only play soccer cause of their parents. Hence, it’s up to the coach to teach, but it’s also up the individual players too.
Anonymous
11/26/2019 11:09
Subject: Re:Playing time expectations
Should also add that if playing time expectations and channels of communications were communicated to players and the parents by the coach and club at the beginning of the season, there would be no reason for parents to come here to ask questions.
Anonymous
11/26/2019 11:05
Subject: Re:Playing time expectations
PP, I'm re-writing this for you.
Well, I can try real hard and never [make] COACH a Premier League Team.
Start with trying TO COACH. Start with asking the [coach] PLAYER TO MAKE [what] improvements [need to be made] and EXPLAIN how to go about improving them.
Start with being an adult and talking to the PLAYER AND THE PARENTS [other adult] INSTEAD OF BENCHING KIDS. At U10 this is not on your child to do but ON THE COACH TO TALK TO YOUR PLAYER AND you [ need to act on their behalf].
Perhaps not playing your kid in a situation that they are in over their head is a way the coach is trying keep them competitive. Perhaps the coach has asked your kid to go in but your kid doesn't like the position so they say no. This does happen and especially at this age, SO IF THAT IS HAPPENING, THE COACH SHOULD TELL THE PARENTS. The kid is getting 50% of the game which is the minimum in Rec and is a reasonable expectation for playing time. COACHES SHOULD TEACH EACH PLAYER [your kid] to do what it takes to stay on the field once there. It is a travel sport and PARENTS ARE PAYING THE COACH AND CLUB TO DO THESE THINGS. [if you think this sucks at U10 you are going to be in for a rough ride in a couple of years when winning does matter. Wait till your kid sits an entire game in High School.]
INSTEAD OF BLAMING PARENTS OR CHILDREN FOR NOT UNDERSTANDING, COACHES SHOULD COMMUNICATE. [Get over it or get better. One last time, your options are:]
1. Talk to the [coach] PLAYER AND/OR PARENTS and ENCOURAGE THE PLAYER TO work on needed areas. (This will not be an instant solution as improvement is never instant and other kids are working to get better as well.)
2. IF THE COACH DETERMINES THAT THE PLAYER IS NOT AT THE RIGHT LEVEL FOR THE TEAM, HELP THE FAMILY Find a team at a more appropriate level [ for your kid].
[3. Play rec.]
Remember, it is a team sport and the only way a team improves and gets better is if COACHES CARE ABOUT ALL PLAYERS AND HELP all the players bring something to the team. If your player isn't being impactful on the field in a game then your COACH IS NOT HELPING YOUR kid HELP [is not helping] the team.
Well, I can try real hard and never [make] COACH a Premier League Team.
Start with trying TO COACH. Start with asking the [coach] PLAYER TO MAKE [what] improvements [need to be made] and EXPLAIN how to go about improving them.
Start with being an adult and talking to the PLAYER AND THE PARENTS [other adult] INSTEAD OF BENCHING KIDS. At U10 this is not on your child to do but ON THE COACH TO TALK TO YOUR PLAYER AND you [ need to act on their behalf].
Perhaps not playing your kid in a situation that they are in over their head is a way the coach is trying keep them competitive. Perhaps the coach has asked your kid to go in but your kid doesn't like the position so they say no. This does happen and especially at this age, SO IF THAT IS HAPPENING, THE COACH SHOULD TELL THE PARENTS. The kid is getting 50% of the game which is the minimum in Rec and is a reasonable expectation for playing time. COACHES SHOULD TEACH EACH PLAYER [your kid] to do what it takes to stay on the field once there. It is a travel sport and PARENTS ARE PAYING THE COACH AND CLUB TO DO THESE THINGS. [if you think this sucks at U10 you are going to be in for a rough ride in a couple of years when winning does matter. Wait till your kid sits an entire game in High School.]
INSTEAD OF BLAMING PARENTS OR CHILDREN FOR NOT UNDERSTANDING, COACHES SHOULD COMMUNICATE. [Get over it or get better. One last time, your options are:]
1. Talk to the [coach] PLAYER AND/OR PARENTS and ENCOURAGE THE PLAYER TO work on needed areas. (This will not be an instant solution as improvement is never instant and other kids are working to get better as well.)
2. IF THE COACH DETERMINES THAT THE PLAYER IS NOT AT THE RIGHT LEVEL FOR THE TEAM, HELP THE FAMILY Find a team at a more appropriate level [ for your kid].
[3. Play rec.]
Remember, it is a team sport and the only way a team improves and gets better is if COACHES CARE ABOUT ALL PLAYERS AND HELP all the players bring something to the team. If your player isn't being impactful on the field in a game then your COACH IS NOT HELPING YOUR kid HELP [is not helping] the team.
Anonymous
11/26/2019 10:50
Subject: Re:Playing time expectations
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Rise up to the level of the competition. Don't lower the bar to make everyone feel good about themselves.
It’s funny. How about raising the bar on coaching ? We’re quick to blame the kid for not trying hard enough. What if they’re trying hard and the coach is unwilling to take a risk in a game for them?
Well, I can try real hard and never make a Premier League Team.
Start with trying. Start with asking the coach what improvements need to be made and how to go about improving them.
Start with being an adult and talking to the other adult. At U10 this is not on your child to do but you need to act on their behalf.
Perhaps not playing your kid in a situation that they are in over their head is a way the coach is trying keep them competitive. Perhaps the coach has asked your kid to go in but your kid doesn't like the position so they say no. This does happen and especially at this age. The kid is getting 50% of the game which is the minimum in Rec and is a reasonable expectation for playing time. Teach your kid to do what it takes to stay on the field once there. It is a travel sport and if you think this sucks at U10 you are going to be in for a rough ride in a couple of years when winning does matter. Wait till your kid sits an entire game in High School.
Get over it or get better. One last time, your options are:
1. Talk to the coach and work on needed areas. (This will not be an instant solution as improvement is never instant and other kids are working to get better as well.)
2. Find a team at a more appropriate level for your kid.
3. Play rec.
Remember, it is a team sport and the only way a team improves and gets better is if all the players bring something to the team. If your player isn't being impactful on the field in a game then your kid is not helping the team.
Anonymous
11/26/2019 10:38
Subject: Re:Playing time expectations
Anonymous wrote:Rise up to the level of the competition. Don't lower the bar to make everyone feel good about themselves.
It’s funny. How about raising the bar on coaching ? We’re quick to blame the kid for not trying hard enough. What if they’re trying hard and the coach is unwilling to take a risk in a game for them?
Anonymous
11/26/2019 09:52
Subject: Re:Playing time expectations
Travel under U13 is for the adults not the children. They should be having fun with their friends and falling in love with the ball. They don't need travel for that. All that crap about getting gotsoccer points and winning trophies is just to make sadsack parents like "sorry, not sorry" feel better and it is actually harmful for the kids. That's why we have the biggest dropout rate worldwide. Stupid parents and clubs who can't step back from their own fragile little egos and put the children's needs ahead of their own.
I don't think this is true. My son is on a mid-level travel team, and over three years has not moved up or down. But he has become a better player, as have all of his teammates. He has learned strategy (how to defend properly) that he would not have learned in rec. He has learned how to work together as a team with kids he doesn't necessarily like - a skill that will be important even if he drops soccer altogether some day.