Plenty of bright kids leave Wilson feeders for Walls too.

If they’re leaving for Walls it doesn’t mean that Basis is failing them.

Just guess-timating based on what my older kid and his friends have told me about their cohort, and the cohort before them. I don't know of any official stats on the subject. To my knowledge, DC charters don't collect or disseminate data on student departures (but should).

We've talked about who went to Walls after 8th grade and who didn't and why (speculating) many times.

More than half of the BASIS 8th grade cohort seems to apply to Walls. Of those students, roughly 2/3 are admitted. Ultimately, around 1/3 of the 8th grade class leaves for Walls. Other departing students leave for the burbs, privates, Wilson, Banneker (if AA or Latino) etc.

Anonymous wrote:
With honors for all and de-tracking, for some families, it’s no longer worth the move to WOTP. Even families in feeders to Wilson are re-considering.

I agree it’s important to do exit interviews and also act upon that data. But I will say that 35% admission rate to SWW from 1 school is impressive.

It might not be the perfect school. No public or charter school in DC is really. But the bottom line is the school serves a purpose for some families who can’t afford to go private or don’t want to move, especially those in the close in neighborhoods to downtown.

Where did you hear/see this? Is this data available for all MS, i.e., can we find out the admission rate for all/other MS? And is it possible to know how many kids from each public MS are at SWW?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My comparison to NYC magnets and NYC schools in general was not to suggest that Basis was as good as a Hunter or a Stuyvesant (which when I was growing up was in its old crumbling building).

It was just a counterpoint to those who repeatedly assert that Basis is destined to be wretched for all due to its dismal facilities. Don’t get me wrong, I would much rather have proper DC magnet programs in light-filled buildings.

My primary point is that buildings and sports are not critical to an education or even a happy adolescence.

I’m sure a number of privates in the DC area offer a better experience. But I don’t think that’s a fair comparison either.

Your point about Basis not conducting exit interviews with parents of bright, successful kids is a bit concerning. I’ll keep an eye on that one. But so long as bright, self-motivated kids aren’t leaving in droves I won’t get too worked up.

I have yet to read a single post on this BASIS thread or any other claiming that the program is destined to be wretched for all the kids all the time due to its dismal facilities. But common sense says that it can'be a great school without a school library, stage, auditorium, computer lab, real gym or any outdoor space, or decent art rooms and performance spaces. My seriously cramped Manhattan public schools at least had basketball courts on their roofs.

Most bright, self-motivated BASIS students have nowhere to go but the burbs, given that their families can't afford privates, or Upper NW real estate to access Wilson. The parents don't want to move, and BASIS is OK, so the families stay in DC and at BASIS. You could almost argue that bright, self-motivated BASIS 8th graders do leave in droves - roughly one-third head to Walls. Are we sure why? No, not without exit interviews/collecting and collating data.

With honors for all and de-tracking, for some families, it’s no longer worth the move to WOTP. Even families in feeders to Wilson are re-considering.

I agree it’s important to do exit interviews and also act upon that data. But I will say that 35% admission rate to SWW from 1 school is impressive.

It might not be the perfect school. No public or charter school in DC is really. But the bottom line is the school serves a purpose for some families who can’t afford to go private or don’t want to move, especially those in the close in neighborhoods to downtown.

Anonymous wrote:No charter school gives parents a role in decision making. It is a feature not a big. They say they have parent views because in all DC schools, a couple parents must be Board members. I dislike it, but have had a kid in 4 DC charters and it was the same at each.

Teacher stability is tough when teachers are at-will employees, without any protections afforded by a union. Again not a problem unique to Basis. Its teacher turnover has been similar to other charters over the last 3-4 years.

When comparing you need to compare like to like — and a charter isn’t a magnet.

The stability rates are the same for DCPS and the charter sector - a three-year average of 25% turnover. Union or at-will, overall turnover rates are the same across DCPS and charters. Differences in rates between schools are more pronounced by Ward (Wards 1 and 3 have the lowest turnover, Wards 5 and 8 the highest) and by school type (middle schools have the highest rates). For the last couple of years, Basis is actually lower than the DCPS/Charter average.

Most of the BASIS building hallways are so narrow that kids invariably get knocked around in them while changing classes. An average-sized adult stand in the middle of most of the hallways can touch the walls on both sides.

The kids survive.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t agree that BASIS has a significant problem with hallway fights. Kids will be kids and there’s occasionally going to be an errant elbow that leads to jostling and sometimes fisticuffs. As long as everyone plays fair (no double-teams or foreign objects), it’s not a bad way to settle differences and to end a feud.

Pretty sure the biggest kid wins unless someone shows their martial arts skills. It isn't really the route you want kids on, regardless of the quality of the academics.

Huh? Who's claiming that BASIS has a problem with hallways fights?

I don’t agree that BASIS has a significant problem with hallway fights. Kids will be kids and there’s occasionally going to be an errant elbow that leads to jostling and sometimes fisticuffs. As long as everyone plays fair (no double-teams or foreign objects), it’s not a bad way to settle differences and to end a feud.

Anonymous wrote:My comparison to NYC magnets and NYC schools in general was not to suggest that Basis was as good as a Hunter or a Stuyvesant (which when I was growing up was in its old crumbling building).

It was just a counterpoint to those who repeatedly assert that Basis is destined to be wretched for all due to its dismal facilities. Don’t get me wrong, I would much rather have proper DC magnet programs in light-filled buildings.

My primary point is that buildings and sports are not critical to an education or even a happy adolescence.

I’m sure a number of privates in the DC area offer a better experience. But I don’t think that’s a fair comparison either.

Your point about Basis not conducting exit interviews with parents of bright, successful kids is a bit concerning. I’ll keep an eye on that one. But so long as bright, self-motivated kids aren’t leaving in droves I won’t get too worked up.

I have yet to read a single post on this BASIS thread or any other claiming that the program is destined to be wretched for all the kids all the time due to its dismal facilities. But common sense says that it can'be a great school without a school library, stage, auditorium, computer lab, real gym or any outdoor space, or decent art rooms and performance spaces. My seriously cramped Manhattan public schools at least had basketball courts on their roofs.

Most bright, self-motivated BASIS students have nowhere to go but the burbs, given that their families can't afford privates, or Upper NW real estate to access Wilson. The parents don't want to move, and BASIS is OK, so the families stay in DC and at BASIS. You could almost argue that bright, self-motivated BASIS 8th graders do leave in droves - roughly one-third head to Walls. Are we sure why? No, not without exit interviews/collecting and collating data.

Anonymous wrote:No charter school gives parents a role in decision making. It is a feature not a big. They say they have parent views because in all DC schools, a couple parents must be Board members. I dislike it, but have had a kid in 4 DC charters and it was the same at each.

Teacher stability is tough when teachers are at-will employees, without any protections afforded by a union. Again not a problem unique to Basis. Its teacher turnover has been similar to other charters over the last 3-4 years.

When comparing you need to compare like to like — and a charter isn’t a magnet.

This isn't true. We have friends at highly-regarded charters with very active parent organizations. The PA's do play a role in decision making at their schools, albeit not as big a role as some of the better resourced DCPS PTAs.

I know this to be the last at Inspired Teaching, both Two Rivers campuses, Stokes, YuYing, Mundo Verde etc.

My comparison to NYC magnets and NYC schools in general was not to suggest that Basis was as good as a Hunter or a Stuyvesant (which when I was growing up was in its old crumbling building).

It was just a counterpoint to those who repeatedly assert that Basis is destined to be wretched for all due to its dismal facilities. Don’t get me wrong, I would much rather have proper DC magnet programs in light-filled buildings.

My primary point is that buildings and sports are not critical to an education or even a happy adolescence.

I’m sure a number of privates in the DC area offer a better experience. But I don’t think that’s a fair comparison either.

Your point about Basis not conducting exit interviews with parents of bright, successful kids is a bit concerning. I’ll keep an eye on that one. But so long as bright, self-motivated kids aren’t leaving in droves I won’t get too worked up.

No charter school gives parents a role in decision making. It is a feature not a big. They say they have parent views because in all DC schools, a couple parents must be Board members. I dislike it, but have had a kid in 4 DC charters and it was the same at each.

Teacher stability is tough when teachers are at-will employees, without any protections afforded by a union. Again not a problem unique to Basis. Its teacher turnover has been similar to other charters over the last 3-4 years.

When comparing you need to compare like to like — and a charter isn’t a magnet.

Anonymous wrote:I’m a product of NYC public schools, including one of its test-in magnet programs. Looking back, I remember a series of horrible buildings, no green space, little if any sports (unless you count ping-pong, which was very big at my high school), and only rare field trips (which I usually hated — despite “the wonders of NYC”).

I also remember a lot of brilliant kids, huge numbers of whom went onto Ivy League or equivalent colleges, oftentimes as first generation college students.

Coming from this experience, the lack of green fields or a nice building doesn’t really bother me. And thus far it hasn’t bothered my nerdy, non-athletic child.

It’s what happens inside the classroom that counts. And thus far my child (who has never struggled academically; always gotten 5s on PAARC, etc) really loves the teachers, curriculum and peers—amazingly, even the homework.

If for some reason in the future Basis fails to be a good option, we’ll figure out a plan B. But right now we’re not looking, though I guess we’ll continue to keep Walls in the mix as we approach high school.

I'm also a product of NYC public schools, Hunter College MS/HS. We had a decent facility, but not much in the way of sports. The main difference between my NYC test-in magnet program and BASIS was that the administrator and teaching corps of the former was high caliber across the board and stable. At BASIS, not so much. Good teachers often leave after a year or two, and weak ones often stay. Teachers' working conditions aren't the best, with the HOS changing so often, and not-so-great pay and facilities. The current HOS has made major inroads in improving working conditions for teachers, her greatest contribution. Older, long-term, highly experienced teachers are in short supply at BASIS, though there certainly are some.

Another problem is that BASIS HQ in AZ won't tolerate PTAs or parent organizations with any say in the running of the campuses. All you can do as a parent is fund raise for the school through the booster club, then hand over what funds/grant money you draw in for admins to spend. This is one reasons we left, for a private - we tired of the lack of parent input and involvement. For example, at one point, I proposed to admins that departing families, particularly those of strong students, be encouraged to go through exit interviews before disappearing, explaining exactly why they were leaving to help inform admins' decision making. I was ignored.

I'm not convinced that BASIS actually works very well for most of its families. More like its tolerated by many parents because the academics are solid, the college advising is good, kids tend to form strong friendships in a small and intense program, and participating families really don't want to leave DC over school issues.

As a New Yorker, I think that our DC public middle and high schools can do a lot better by families, including BASIS families. If you disagree, I respect your views.

Anonymous wrote:That’s exactly the big deal. What you had 25 years ago in your gifted program is not commonplace today. Do you think BASIS would be so popular if parents had access to such programs in their by-right public school? I guess you could also say, “what’s the big deal about Latin, we had classical education hundreds of years ago.” We don’t have it here now as a widely available option for the many families who seek it. That’s why BASIS, Latin and others are a big deal.

I'm not buying this. In this Metro area alone there are dozens of stellar HS programs on a par with BASIS academically with far better facilities (and that's putting it mildly).

DC public schools are the problem, not the dearth of challenging academic programs in the country. DCPS is a system without any formal GT programs.

I think both posts here are saying the same thing. DCPS is the problem and some families don’t want to move out of the city to go to these other high schools. Hence why Basis is popular for some families for when you have to choose academics over facilities, they choose academics. I don’t blame them and would do the same.