Anonymous wrote:My 7th and 4th grade daughters read a ton for pleasure and relaxation. Examples of 7th graders books - Homecoming, Dicey’s Song, Akata Witch, Akata Warrior, Satellite, some biographies

I loved Akata Witch!

Anonymous wrote:The Hate U Give would be an amazing choice for them to read AND deals with the same themes of Mockingbird in a much better, more relevant way.

This thread has really been illuminating. Specifically because I trust kids to own their reading choices and pick books that matter to them and would like to give them that freedom I’m seen as “berating” them (?) and, paradoxically, NOT trusting them. I explicitly do trust them to pick what’s best *for them*. If Mockingbird works for Kid A, great. If THUG works for Kid B, great! But I didn’t make either kid pick either book. Truly surprising to me that parents would see kids getting ownership over their education like this and think “that’s terrible, she should make them read (see: Sparknote) Crime and Punishment.”

Different poster here. This reminds me of my college courses where we read two books dealing with similar themes and compared them. They were my favorite English classes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:pp and teen has read so far in addition to required reading:
Death on the Nile
The Song of Achilles
Tom Sawyer
Never Caught: The Washington's Relentless Pursuit of Their Runaway Slave

Would you recommend this? I have to buy a book for a humanities magnet student to start this week.

DH read, enjoyed, and gave to kids to read. DS 16 liked it. He likes history. I haven't read it yet.

Thanks!

My 7th and 4th grade daughters read a ton for pleasure and relaxation. Examples of 7th graders books - Homecoming, Dicey’s Song, Akata Witch, Akata Warrior, Satellite, some biographies

OP, I am a college literature professor at a very good school and I have several close friends who are high school English teachers. I understand that your/their job is harder than mine in many ways: I don't have to work very hard simply to engage my students. I can assume a certain level, not just of literacy, but of critical analysis skills. I take for granted my students' commitment to the coursework and to the educational endeavor in general. I realize that your students and goals are different.

That said, I am bothered by how dismissive you are of so many responses. You call on the "latest research" as though it were an irrefutable authority when these are all questions that teachers wrestle with and will continue to wrestle with for years to come.

Personally, I believe that the goal of any language arts instructor, or high school English teacher, or college literature professor should be to teach certain skills, to ensure that students can analyze difficult texts (whether it's a canonical work, an opinion article, or a political speech), and can put together a coherent argument. It is our job to challenge students -- to try to prepare them a little bit for the challenge that is life. If the students are going to read (maybe only part of...) of a few books per year, they should be books vetted and carefully chosen by YOU (the most prepared person in the room!). Every part of the classics can be analyzed, questioned, critiqued, deconstructed -- as you do that, you both deal with the difficult issues instead of avoiding them and teach students how to deal with them in life.

I admire you for being so thoughtful in your approach to teaching but I don't see how you can get a consistently good discussion or how you can consistently teach important skills
with this format.

Anonymous wrote:OP, I’m sorry your thread got derailed. I suspect anti-teacher bias. This is the time of year that DCUM sharpens its claws for teachers. I think if you had asked “Does you teen read purely for pleasure?”, people would have assumed you were a parent and given you a simple answer. Sometimes on DCUM, less explanation is best.

I disagreed with what OP proposed and I definitely don't have "anti-teacher bias." In June I wrote two emails to teachers thanking them for being great teachers for my DC, and I wrote another one to the principal saying how wonderful a specific teacher was. Your aren't anti-teacher just because you disagree with a teacher. OP's defensive responses didn't help the situation either.

OP, I’m sorry your thread got derailed. I suspect anti-teacher bias. This is the time of year that DCUM sharpens its claws for teachers. I think if you had asked “Does you teen read purely for pleasure?”, people would have assumed you were a parent and given you a simple answer. Sometimes on DCUM, less explanation is best.

Anonymous wrote:Hi! It’s me, the high school English teacher. Gearing up for another year back. I’m playing around with my curriculum this year and thinking I will do no whole- class texts this year and instead give the kids a genre or general requirement and then have them choose a book within those parameters. So, for instance, if I say a book by a BIPOC author, they can choose any book that interests them as long as it was written by someone who is Black, Indigenous, or otherwise a person of color. All our mini lessons, essential questions, tasks will revolve around that type of book so what they are reading specifically won’t matter- they’ll be able to apply it all to their individual text.

Here’s my question to you: can you tell me honestly if your kid actually read for pleasure this summer and if so, what they read? Don’t be selective about answering only if your kid did, it helps me to know if they didn’t as well. Getting kids to read for pleasure is a huge struggle and I’m tailoring my curriculum to hopefully help them do more of that without the whole “we are going to read this tedious old book from 1945 and beat it to death” thing. It’s a good jumping off point for me to know whether the kids are reading books of their choice when they’re able or if they’re not reading at home either since getting them to think of reading as a valuable pastime they should consider doing for enjoyment is, well, hard.

I wish you’d been my teacher! My dd is only MS age now but loves to read, but more like a sometimes thing and not voraciously. She’s disciplined and reads for a goal (like assignments or reading prize goals) as much as she will because she’s interested in a story. I on the other hand was a bookworm... except when it came to assigned books. I had to force myself to read them, even if they were interesting. I would really have liked to choose my own and build learning rather than be taught via information that someone else had chosen for me. I did a lot better in college when we were able to select our own choices as you’ve described.

No, my rising senior is not reading for pleasure. She is reading the tome assigned for English and hating every minute of it. I would LOVE it if she were truly
allowed to read for pleasure in the summer. She would too. She loves reading.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:pp and teen has read so far in addition to required reading:
Death on the Nile
The Song of Achilles
Tom Sawyer
Never Caught: The Washington's Relentless Pursuit of Their Runaway Slave

Would you recommend this? I have to buy a book for a humanities magnet student to start this week.

DH read, enjoyed, and gave to kids to read. DS 16 liked it. He likes history. I haven't read it yet.

OP, I suggest you stop responding to individual posts. You likely feel attacked at this point, so take a break from the thread. Come back in a day or two and reread the thread to see if there are any suggestions that you can use. I think you'll find some. I tend to be passionate and have strong opinions. I've found I can sometimes gain perspective if I step back from a heated situation and come back at a later time with fresh eyes.

Mine loves to read but she's in a magnet program. She's been so busy though this summer that she hasn't read much. She loves more modern classics or modern non-fiction. She is not so fond of classics with antiquated language (Jane Austin for example).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why can't their be a suggested list to choose from BUT if the kid wants to deviate from that, they have to propose a) the book, b) how it meets the teaching objective for the unit/assignment? This would seem to meet the needs of people who are demanding required reading and kids who have strong preferences as to what they want to read.

I'm a voracious reader. Even i had a LOT of trouble with "assigned" reading in school. It had nothing with comprehension but I just hated the books - i couldn't relate to them, they weren't interesting . . . and it makes it hard to like a class and to like reading in that instance.

I'm no teacher. So this may not be a good "method" but it seems reasonable. Plus, it give control to the student and forces them to really think about a book that deviates from the list.


My two cents.

I wonder if these parents asked their kids how they felt about this what they would hear. The PARENTS want “classic” required reading. But I teach kids and the kids... usually don’t.

I'm the poster you're responding to and I've gone back to read some of the "classic" books that I was forced to read (or are usually forced on kids) as a kid. And it is interesting. Some of them are quite good but, frankly, I can see why most MS/HS kids are not interested in them. They can be boring if they are used to reading Harry Potter, Lord of The Rings, and other similar books. I think you can get some of the same themes in the classics without having to read the classics, imo. And so why shouldn't they be able to if they can make the case that the book qualifies for the unit/lesson? I think for kids who want the classics, maybe offer that as an elective?

I will also say that some of the classics I didn't love in HS, I loved way more as an adult (The Great Gatsby, being one). Some that are revered as great works are crap, imo (A Tale of Two Cities - I almost couldn't get through it; I'm struggling now getting through Huckleberry Finn). I intellectually get why they are considered great works but, sorry, not my cup of tea.

I think kids -well, my kid and me as a kid- learn better when they're interested and engaged. I get that is not 100% always possible but, with literature, it USUALLY can be made that way.

Anyway, like I said, I'm not a teacher. So take it for what it's worth . . .

Lurker NP here.

OP, this is just food for thought. Your responses here on this thread seem to be hypocritical considering what you are advocating in your classroom. In your classroom, you are giving wider choice for reading material and discussion in order to get themes across and teach critical thinking from what is read.

On this thread, you are actually trying to focus the discussion only in the direction you want it to be, exactly focused on what you are trying to get. Unfortunately, on a public open discussion board like DCUM it is virtually impossible to keep the peanut gallery narrowly focused on just one topic or question. Since it is a discussion board, there are natural diversions and tangents in conversation and people will pick up on that. In addition, people will choose how they want to answer your question even if it is in a different direction than you are guiding.

So your are giving more freedom of choice and response to your students and less freedom of choice and response to the discussion board, which frankly is hopeless. A better choice for you is to let people respond as they want and just pick the responses that are helpful to you and your focus and ignore or move on from the responses that are not focused for you. It might be helpful to other people, like the other teachers who are on the thread or to other parents who may find some of the comments useful.

But your response to the people who are not doing exactly what you want are brusque and rude, despite what you seem to think. So be more polite and just opt not to respond to those responses that don't fit your desired focus.

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Anonymous wrote:Oh, and also, I would never try to have a conversation with a friend about the specific merits of a given article without reading the article. The content, sure — “oh yes, Charles Mann argues that the population of the Americas before Columbus was much larger than we thought” but not “Charles Mann has this beautifully lyrical description of Amazonia...” (I’d immediately go “ooh lemme see.”)

And what if- hear me out- this exact thing happens to kids and they go “wait let me read that” and then they too are doing extra reading just because they were curious.

I mean, great, but you’re making it sound like the best thing that could come out of your class are kids reading on their own, which as the kid who would have preferred to read her own book in the library than go to English class (and whose kid is the same!) makes me wonder why it should be a required course. But that’s cool, I was already pretty sold on a classical curriculum for my kids.

I think you are missing the point. English class is not about reading the book. One can do that on their own. It's about dissecting and discussing the book. You know, critical thinking. That's why it's a required course. It has never been about the reading part.

No, I don't think PP was missing the point. I think OP is missing the point. To OP, the point of English class is to read the book and 'love reading.'

No, the books are actually beside the point which is why I don’t need to control what they pick. The point of English class is to connect with humanity, honor someone else’s voice and lived experience, hone your own writing and voice to tell your story, understand your world.

That is the silliest thing I’ve read in a long time and completely makes my point. -PP