Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a current Sidwell high school parent, I am appalled that the college counselors would change a kids recommendation from one college application to another. No wonder the college counseling office has such a poor reputation year after year.

I was surprised by this too. Do all the DC private high schools do this or is this just at Sidwell?

I think those forms are meant to relate the applicant to the cohort of other applicants, and as such, they have to change from one school to another. Unless the applicant is the tippy-top of students.

In other words, for this student, she was a strong candidate for Spellman but maybe a middle applicant, as compared to her cohort, for Harvard. If the schools college guidance office isn't honest with the universities, they won't have credibility.

I am hard pressed to understand your complaint here.

Because that’s not really how the question is worded, and because it allows the counselors to boost or torpedo particular applications.

That is always the case. They have to rate the applicants to the cohort applying. Its like the line from "The Incredibles" - when everyone is special, no one is - if the college counselors tell the colleges that every one of the applicants is a 10 out of 10 across the board without distinguishing among applicants, who who is lying? They will have no credibility with the colleges if everyone is a 10. It just isn't realistic that 15 people applying to Yale are going to get top A1 recs from the school.

If you read the case, you will see that, in fact, the applicant is supposed to be evaluated against the entire class, not just those applying. So it was wrong of them to change the rating based on the application. The rating was the same for all the Ivies and improved for Spellman. It does change my whole view of college counseling. The next time the school says we have to trust them, it will be very hard not to ask why.

True! Wonder if colleges are aware this is how SFS rates applicants?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder whether some Sidwell parents used Singer in the past and recommended him to the school. Which would raise new questions about the authenticity of those admissions. God forbid!

Regardless of the merits of the case, it is so ironic that he was used to evaluate her case and concluded that she was not qualified for the Ivies and yet at the same time he was getting other students into Ivies under false pretences.

I wonder if you used Singer. Maybe you referred him to Sidwell. I wonder if your kids cheated on their SATs. See how “wondering” works?

DP. And your wondering makes me wonder why you're so attached to him. I wonder if you paid him yourself? Perhaps you used him?

The first PP is spot on. Someone who is a liar and a fraud is being judged worthy to evaluate this girl's application? And you believe him? Really? Better than that, the folks at Sidwell believed him?

The rumors about Singer have been swirling for years. That anyone with any ethics or morals would come nearer to him than a 100 miles is too weird to be true. If you really think he is so trustworthy then I have a bridge I'd like you to see. I'll get you a good deal...

Yes because it’s impossible to think that Singer is a liar and a fraud AND that it’s ridiculous to speculate that Sidwell parents hired him in the absence of any evidence. I can see how holding these two thoughts in your pea sized brain at the same time is too taxing. If Sidwell parents hired him those facts will come out soon enough and we can all enjoy roasting them over an open flame. Until then, yes, it is just as likely that I hired him as that you hired him.

Well, me with my pea-sized brain never hired him because my pea-sized brain realizes that where there is smoke there is likely fire so we stayed way far away from him. But that's just me and my pea-sized brain. That guy oozes used-car-salesman. If you walked away from meeting him and didn't check your pocket for your wallet then you deserve what you got. Which is why it is so ludicrous for people, like the people at Sidwell, to say "we didn't know."

So you knew about Singer BEFORE he was arrested? You even met with him? Wow.

We were at the same cocktail party here in DC although I purposefully did not meet him. Heard of him from friends in LA. They said he was a big stinkaroo. If you didn't know about him before he was arrested then you had your head under a rock. Why do you think he was here in DC anyway? How do you think he got hooked up with Sidwell? Do you really have such narrow tunnel vision and get out so little?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a current Sidwell high school parent, I am appalled that the college counselors would change a kids recommendation from one college application to another. No wonder the college counseling office has such a poor reputation year after year.

I was surprised by this too. Do all the DC private high schools do this or is this just at Sidwell?

I think those forms are meant to relate the applicant to the cohort of other applicants, and as such, they have to change from one school to another. Unless the applicant is the tippy-top of students.

In other words, for this student, she was a strong candidate for Spellman but maybe a middle applicant, as compared to her cohort, for Harvard. If the schools college guidance office isn't honest with the universities, they won't have credibility.

I am hard pressed to understand your complaint here.

Because that’s not really how the question is worded, and because it allows the counselors to boost or torpedo particular applications.

That is always the case. They have to rate the applicants to the cohort applying. Its like the line from "The Incredibles" - when everyone is special, no one is - if the college counselors tell the colleges that every one of the applicants is a 10 out of 10 across the board without distinguishing among applicants, who who is lying? They will have no credibility with the colleges if everyone is a 10. It just isn't realistic that 15 people applying to Yale are going to get top A1 recs from the school.

If you read the case, you will see that, in fact, the applicant is supposed to be evaluated against the entire class, not just those applying. So it was wrong of them to change the rating based on the application. The rating was the same for all the Ivies and improved for Spellman. It does change my whole view of college counseling. The next time the school says we have to trust them, it will be very hard not to ask why.

It is misleading to say "if you read the case" because what you are reading is only her petition. You aren't yet seeing Sidwell's arguments, and you certainly aren't seeing the court's opinion. So what you say is a "fact" is actually a statement of the petitioners' view of what was supposed to happen. No doubt Sidwell's version will be different, and if it ever proceeds as a case (which I don't think it will), someone will likely call a witness from the universities to state how they view the question and what they were expecting in the answer from the school.

There has already been a case, two in fact. This is the SCOTUS filing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a current Sidwell high school parent, I am appalled that the college counselors would change a kids recommendation from one college application to another. No wonder the college counseling office has such a poor reputation year after year.

I was surprised by this too. Do all the DC private high schools do this or is this just at Sidwell?

I think those forms are meant to relate the applicant to the cohort of other applicants, and as such, they have to change from one school to another. Unless the applicant is the tippy-top of students.

In other words, for this student, she was a strong candidate for Spellman but maybe a middle applicant, as compared to her cohort, for Harvard. If the schools college guidance office isn't honest with the universities, they won't have credibility.

I am hard pressed to understand your complaint here.

Because that’s not really how the question is worded, and because it allows the counselors to boost or torpedo particular applications.

That is always the case. They have to rate the applicants to the cohort applying. Its like the line from "The Incredibles" - when everyone is special, no one is - if the college counselors tell the colleges that every one of the applicants is a 10 out of 10 across the board without distinguishing among applicants, who who is lying? They will have no credibility with the colleges if everyone is a 10. It just isn't realistic that 15 people applying to Yale are going to get top A1 recs from the school.

If you read the case, you will see that, in fact, the applicant is supposed to be evaluated against the entire class, not just those applying. So it was wrong of them to change the rating based on the application. The rating was the same for all the Ivies and improved for Spellman. It does change my whole view of college counseling. The next time the school says we have to trust them, it will be very hard not to ask why.

It is misleading to say "if you read the case" because what you are reading is only her petition. You aren't yet seeing Sidwell's arguments, and you certainly aren't seeing the court's opinion. So what you say is a "fact" is actually a statement of the petitioners' view of what was supposed to happen. No doubt Sidwell's version will be different, and if it ever proceeds as a case (which I don't think it will), someone will likely call a witness from the universities to state how they view the question and what they were expecting in the answer from the school.

So it looks like she applied to 13 schools, and almost all of them would be considered reaches even for a very top student. Can't imagine a college counselor being happy about that list or too surprised about the outcome.

Actually the part I find craziest is not hiring Singer (which I assume was the lawyers' pick) or the college admissions lawsuit, but previous lawsuits regarding treatment by the math department. If I was reading things correctly, they basically sued the school over math grades?

Has anyone ever heard of someone actually suing over grades before?

I have graduated 2 DCs from Sidwell. The college counseling office was very open and honest with what they thought each child’s chances were at various schools. That is their job. Do I want them to lie to me that my DD is a strong candidate for Harvard, when in fact she may not be? If 20 kids apply to Yale, they have to somehow look at the quantifiable data that helps distinguish each applicant. They can’t rank the subjective (ie ECs, etc), but numbers are numbers. That doesn’t mean they will intentionally yank a kid in his/her recommendation, but they have long standing relationships with these colleges and they have to be honest or there will be no trust between the college and the counseling office, which hurts everyone long term. Getting into college isn’t a hard science people, there are just too many qualified kids across the country. And if a child doesn’t get into their dream school, it’s not the fault of the counseling office.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In that case, quaker values or not, Sidwell should be transparent about the fact that they DO rank the students, and that ranking will matter which colleges the students can apply to. It looks like parents did not get that memo.

There are So many top students from public schools who don’t get admitted to any Ivies. Why they haven’t sued their high schools? Do all private school parents feel shameful when talking about Quaker values.

Why do you ascribe the actions of one set of parents to a whole community? This lawsuit started in 2014 and no one in the parent community knew anything of it until it was posted here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a current Sidwell high school parent, I am appalled that the college counselors would change a kids recommendation from one college application to another. No wonder the college counseling office has such a poor reputation year after year.

I was surprised by this too. Do all the DC private high schools do this or is this just at Sidwell?

I think those forms are meant to relate the applicant to the cohort of other applicants, and as such, they have to change from one school to another. Unless the applicant is the tippy-top of students.

In other words, for this student, she was a strong candidate for Spellman but maybe a middle applicant, as compared to her cohort, for Harvard. If the schools college guidance office isn't honest with the universities, they won't have credibility.

I am hard pressed to understand your complaint here.

Because that’s not really how the question is worded, and because it allows the counselors to boost or torpedo particular applications.

That is always the case. They have to rate the applicants to the cohort applying. Its like the line from "The Incredibles" - when everyone is special, no one is - if the college counselors tell the colleges that every one of the applicants is a 10 out of 10 across the board without distinguishing among applicants, who who is lying? They will have no credibility with the colleges if everyone is a 10. It just isn't realistic that 15 people applying to Yale are going to get top A1 recs from the school.

If you read the case, you will see that, in fact, the applicant is supposed to be evaluated against the entire class, not just those applying. So it was wrong of them to change the rating based on the application. The rating was the same for all the Ivies and improved for Spellman. It does change my whole view of college counseling. The next time the school says we have to trust them, it will be very hard not to ask why.

I'm confused and may be misunderstanding something. Are posters saying that the guidance counselors send a ranking of all the students applying to a specific college?

Anonymous wrote:The Singer connection is easily the least interesting part of this story.

It is relevant if the school used him to validate their decision that she was not qualified for ivies.

Anonymous wrote:In that case, quaker values or not, Sidwell should be transparent about the fact that they DO rank the students, and that ranking will matter which colleges the students can apply to. It looks like parents did not get that memo.

There are So many top students from public schools who don’t get admitted to any Ivies. Why they haven’t sued their high schools? Do all private school parents feel shameful when talking about Quaker values.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a current Sidwell high school parent, I am appalled that the college counselors would change a kids recommendation from one college application to another. No wonder the college counseling office has such a poor reputation year after year.

I was surprised by this too. Do all the DC private high schools do this or is this just at Sidwell?

I think those forms are meant to relate the applicant to the cohort of other applicants, and as such, they have to change from one school to another. Unless the applicant is the tippy-top of students.

In other words, for this student, she was a strong candidate for Spellman but maybe a middle applicant, as compared to her cohort, for Harvard. If the schools college guidance office isn't honest with the universities, they won't have credibility.

I am hard pressed to understand your complaint here.

That's appears to be what the Court of Appeals concluded.

Anonymous wrote:In that case, quaker values or not, Sidwell should be transparent about the fact that they DO rank the students, and that ranking will matter which colleges the students can apply to. It looks like parents did not get that memo.

If you don't know this happens and has been happening for decades, that is on you. It really isn't a surprise.

As the parent of two recent Sidwell grads, I have some experience with the college application process at the SFS. I'm also acquainted with several of the teachers and administrators mentioned in the cert petition. I don't have any illusions that Sidwell treats all students in an evenhanded manner with respect to grading and college counseling (as well as disciplinary matters). I also know that teachers and administrators at the school vary considerably in the honesty and transparency of their interactions with students and parents. That said, however, the discussion here is based only on reading the family's cert petition. Sidwell's response would no doubt tell another story. The truth, as we all know, lies somewhere in between.