Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a cheater ... he probably did it because he could. I could cite low self esteem, some unresolved issues and resentments, anger with my husband. But real reason is that I was selfish and unwilling to face the issues I had. I met somebody and felt a connection and hadn't felt that for ages and decided the risk was worth it, and I went with it.

Cheaters are jerks. Immature and unable to deal with the reality of the present. Cheating gives you a mini-vacation from the stress of day to day life. It was the bright spot in my day that was otherwise beset with crap. But it isn't sustainable, because that bright spot belongs to somebody else.

This is OP again. How did you come to realize this about yourself? Did your husband feel like your life together was crap before your affair? I’m asking because I don’t see how my husband could have felt our life was crappy—I certainly didn’t! I suspect that “he did it because he could” is part of the reason, but I just don’t be get it! I could sleep with someone I meet at a bar too, but I don’t because I love my DH, my kids and our life together. This is a betrayal and also a rejection of me on so many levels. If this is the reason, he’s saying “I don’t care about you”, “I don’t care about our family”, “you’re not enough for me”, “you stupidly thought we were happy, but we’re not” and on and on.

How did I come to realize this ... Lots of introspection for a few years after my affair. I'm still working on it. I know more about myself now, and looking back I can see a LOT more of my cheating tendencies from way back. Never actually cheated, but my boundaries are bad.

Did my H feel our life was crap before my affair? Probably not. And I didn't either. Because our life wasn't crap. We aren't fighters. We work to get along. But there was something missing, and that was closeness. We had sex, fine. But we weren't close. At least I didn't feel close. DH was working, not paying attention to us. Other issues I'd rather not get into here. But we'd lost our connection. It had been gone for a while. And I'm not good at admitting when there is a problem. Or even acknowledging to myself that there was a problem.

Sleeping with somebody else is betrayal and rejection of you. Yes, it absolutely is. That is actually also what I was doing (for my own reasons). I was betraying and rejecting my husband for the things I was not admitting I felt in real life. I think that was me ... trying to play it perfect? I'm fine, it's all fine, this is FINE. But you can't ignore your feelings and emotions forever. And you can't pretend you aren't hurt forever. And I couldn't ignore my husband's betrayals and pretend they weren't betrayals forever. But instead of admitting all that, that I had some anger and grief and pain ... I had an affair. I like what the other poster said about having no emotional intelligence. I have no emotional intelligence, I'm emotionally immature. I know how to suppress. SO, yes, for me it was a huge betrayal and rejection of my husband. I know why I was betraying and rejecting. But your DH has to figure that out for himself.

as betraying and rejecting. But your DH has to figure that out for himself.

OP thought you’d find this interesting

https://www.fatherly.com/health-science/why-happily-married-men-cheat-wives/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=fbowned&utm_content=fatherly

OP, there is something off about the story. I can't pinpoint it. But I don't think you have all the relevant facts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP did this woman from the bar know he was married? It may be worth it to talk to her in some way to see if you can find out more. Somethings missing from this entire story.

Yes, she knew he’s married. He told her he is also in a “committed but open” relationship, but that conversation doesn’t come up without some serious flirting...

Basically he went to a bar with cheating in mind. Same with this OW. OP I would get tested. This OW could be doing this routinely or your husband for all you know. I'm really wondering why he told you...perhaps her husband found out, and threatened to contact you. I feel sorry for her husband as well, but I would need to contact him. She's putting his health at risk. If I had young kids I would probably stay only for them knowing what I do now seeing my divorced friends. However, the marriage would be over.

About Esther Perel, she's a cheater apologist. Read Chump Lady, a accurate portrayal of this woman. The comments about Perel are hysterical though on that C.L. website. Many see through her b.s.

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/marriagehelper/2015/12/16/why-your-spouse-loves-another-understanding-limerence--the-joe-beam-show

Perel is only famous because of her controversial stance on cheating. I've found this talk to be much, much more informative. It talks about what a cheater is thinking, why they are doing it, what you can do during different stages, and what to expect. I guarantee you he's told the OW that you are crazy, unstable, marriage has been dead for years, he only stays for the kids.

He's going to start rewriting history. He's going to say he never loved you. He's going to say you were never happy together. He's going to blame you for making him cheat. It's a textbook script they follow.

Please don't beg him to stay. Please don't even give him the time of day right now to talk about his feelings. If your marriage is going to be saved, he will eat his shit sandwich and wait until you are ready to decide what to do.

Anonymous wrote:OP, reading Ester Perel, listening to her podcasts, and listening to this podcast: https://www.wbur.org/dearsugar/2017/05/19/dear-sugar-episode-twenty-seven-rerun

really helped me understand infidelity. You may find more comfort in her thoughts than on here.

Ugh. I hate Perel. I have listened to these and really find her to be a victim-blamer. She only considers the perspective of the cheater. It is also clear she enters therapy with a bias against monogamy and she herself hints at her own marriages monogamy problems.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a cheater ... he probably did it because he could. I could cite low self esteem, some unresolved issues and resentments, anger with my husband. But real reason is that I was selfish and unwilling to face the issues I had. I met somebody and felt a connection and hadn't felt that for ages and decided the risk was worth it, and I went with it.

Cheaters are jerks. Immature and unable to deal with the reality of the present. Cheating gives you a mini-vacation from the stress of day to day life. It was the bright spot in my day that was otherwise beset with crap. But it isn't sustainable, because that bright spot belongs to somebody else.

This is OP again. How did you come to realize this about yourself? Did your husband feel like your life together was crap before your affair? I’m asking because I don’t see how my husband could have felt our life was crappy—I certainly didn’t! I suspect that “he did it because he could” is part of the reason, but I just don’t be get it! I could sleep with someone I meet at a bar too, but I don’t because I love my DH, my kids and our life together. This is a betrayal and also a rejection of me on so many levels. If this is the reason, he’s saying “I don’t care about you”, “I don’t care about our family”, “you’re not enough for me”, “you stupidly thought we were happy, but we’re not” and on and on.

How did I come to realize this ... Lots of introspection for a few years after my affair. I'm still working on it. I know more about myself now, and looking back I can see a LOT more of my cheating tendencies from way back. Never actually cheated, but my boundaries are bad.

Did my H feel our life was crap before my affair? Probably not. And I didn't either. Because our life wasn't crap. We aren't fighters. We work to get along. But there was something missing, and that was closeness. We had sex, fine. But we weren't close. At least I didn't feel close. DH was working, not paying attention to us. Other issues I'd rather not get into here. But we'd lost our connection. It had been gone for a while. And I'm not good at admitting when there is a problem. Or even acknowledging to myself that there was a problem.

Sleeping with somebody else is betrayal and rejection of you. Yes, it absolutely is. That is actually also what I was doing (for my own reasons). I was betraying and rejecting my husband for the things I was not admitting I felt in real life. I think that was me ... trying to play it perfect? I'm fine, it's all fine, this is FINE. But you can't ignore your feelings and emotions forever. And you can't pretend you aren't hurt forever. And I couldn't ignore my husband's betrayals and pretend they weren't betrayals forever. But instead of admitting all that, that I had some anger and grief and pain ... I had an affair. I like what the other poster said about having no emotional intelligence. I have no emotional intelligence, I'm emotionally immature. I know how to suppress. SO, yes, for me it was a huge betrayal and rejection of my husband. I know why I was betraying and rejecting. But your DH has to figure that out for himself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a cheater ... he probably did it because he could. I could cite low self esteem, some unresolved issues and resentments, anger with my husband. But real reason is that I was selfish and unwilling to face the issues I had. I met somebody and felt a connection and hadn't felt that for ages and decided the risk was worth it, and I went with it.

Cheaters are jerks. Immature and unable to deal with the reality of the present. Cheating gives you a mini-vacation from the stress of day to day life. It was the bright spot in my day that was otherwise beset with crap. But it isn't sustainable, because that bright spot belongs to somebody else.

This is OP again. How did you come to realize this about yourself? Did your husband feel like your life together was crap before your affair? I’m asking because I don’t see how my husband could have felt our life was crappy—I certainly didn’t! I suspect that “he did it because he could” is part of the reason, but I just don’t be get it! I could sleep with someone I meet at a bar too, but I don’t because I love my DH, my kids and our life together. This is a betrayal and also a rejection of me on so many levels. If this is the reason, he’s saying “I don’t care about you”, “I don’t care about our family”, “you’re not enough for me”, “you stupidly thought we were happy, but we’re not” and on and on.

My DH cheated as well, and I thought we had the same happy life you did. the thing is that cheaters are, by their nature, two-faced. They are willing to pretend - both to the wife and the affair partner. To the wife the cheater is saying everything is great. To the AP, they make something else up. I had a chance to read my now ex’s emails to his AP. They did not at all describe the life we had. He told her a big story about how we weren’t really a couple and he was just there out of duty (while at the same time he was telling me he loved me and wanted to have another baby). The cheater doesn’t think at all that they will get caught or have to pay any consequences because they are just creating a fantasy to fill a need of their own.

OP, I can see you are struggling to understand, and that is rational. But, the thing is that an affair at its core is irrrational, and the only person who can understand and explain it is your husband. If there is one thing I wish I had done when I went thru this, it is to stop focusing on him. At the time I demanded to have radical access and transparency to all phone, email, bills, etc. I’m glad I did that and would do it again. But, what I failed to do was prioritize myself. I should have given DH a certain amount of time to figure out his shit and come to me and own it. While he was doing that, I should have focused on building the life I wanted whether or not he was around - strengthening career options, strengthening my relationship with the kids, getting finances in order, building friend networks and family supports and writing a post-nup agreement that would act as a divorce if necessary (on terms favorable to me and the kids). Instead, I got sucked into couples therapy (inappropriate in an abusive relationship - and infidelity is abuse), into Al-anon, S-anon, etc. These were not my problems, and I would have been far better off if I had spent that time on me and the kids. The decision to have an affair really had nothing to do with me. I had no control or influence over my then DH. In the end, I did have a timeline in my head, and after 2 years, I sat down and evaluated myself if he had done the things necessary to earn my trust back. The answer was no, and I cut him loose. Sad, but a situation I had no control over except to pick from an array of bad options to choose the one that was the least bad that I could live with.

He wrecked the marriage I thought we had, and I wasn’t interested in the kind of marriage he was offering (dishonest, unstable and delusional).

Anonymous wrote:OP, reading Ester Perel, listening to her podcasts, and listening to this podcast: https://www.wbur.org/dearsugar/2017/05/19/dear-sugar-episode-twenty-seven-rerun

really helped me understand infidelity. You may find more comfort in her thoughts than on here.

Thank you. I just listened to her Ted Talk “for everyone who has ever loved.” I don’t feel comfort in her words, right now anyway, but it gave me a lot to think about. I’ll listen again later.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a cheater ... he probably did it because he could. I could cite low self esteem, some unresolved issues and resentments, anger with my husband. But real reason is that I was selfish and unwilling to face the issues I had. I met somebody and felt a connection and hadn't felt that for ages and decided the risk was worth it, and I went with it.

Cheaters are jerks. Immature and unable to deal with the reality of the present. Cheating gives you a mini-vacation from the stress of day to day life. It was the bright spot in my day that was otherwise beset with crap. But it isn't sustainable, because that bright spot belongs to somebody else.

This is OP again. How did you come to realize this about yourself? Did your husband feel like your life together was crap before your affair? I’m asking because I don’t see how my husband could have felt our life was crappy—I certainly didn’t! I suspect that “he did it because he could” is part of the reason, but I just don’t be get it! I could sleep with someone I meet at a bar too, but I don’t because I love my DH, my kids and our life together. This is a betrayal and also a rejection of me on so many levels. If this is the reason, he’s saying “I don’t care about you”, “I don’t care about our family”, “you’re not enough for me”, “you stupidly thought we were happy, but we’re not” and on and on.

DP.. .I'm sure he does care about you and your family, BUT, he was also able to compartmentalize his selfish desires, and the two never intersected in his brain. "What were you thinking".. "I wasn't".

I've mentioned this a few times in this thread, but the thing that gets to me is that he had a whole week to think about what he was doing, and he couldn't overcome the temptation.

I'm so sorry. I would feel devastated too in your shoes. I think DH and I have a good marriage. We have sex regularly, so if he ever cheated, and planned it, I am not sure if I could ever get over that. I think if it was a spur of the moment thing, he was drunk, etc.. that would be a lot easier to forgive. IMO, it's the combination of you thought you had a good marriage and the premeditation that I would have a huge problem with.

As you stated, we all have temptations, but it's a matter of whether you can overcome them because you love your spouse and family.

IMO, it's just pure selfishness. His selfish desire was more important than your life together. Wow, I'm feeling it just thinking about it happening to me.

What to do? The answer is not so easy when you have young kids. I have two kids, too. Can you ever forgive him? Individual and couples therapy to see if you can ever forgive him and for you to get answers.

OP, reading Ester Perel, listening to her podcasts, and listening to this podcast: https://www.wbur.org/dearsugar/2017/05/19/dear-sugar-episode-twenty-seven-rerun

really helped me understand infidelity. You may find more comfort in her thoughts than on here.