Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Volunteer at school and hang in the background, and discreetly observe.

Also ask the teacher for a conference and ask her ahead of time to observe the social dynamics in class so she can tell you what she observes.

What I’ve noticed is that sometimes kids get labeled unlikable and it can stick in a smaller school. I thinks it’s sort of like bullying but subtle.

Does your dd do unsocial things like read a book instead of chatting during school or at lunch? Or does she unknowingly say rude or hurtful things? Or is she the type that complains and doesn’t go along with others?

Do NOT do the bolded in middle school. Please.

The teens notice their classmates who always have their parents at school, and openly feel sorry for them. If your kid is awkward or having trouble with friends, don't be that mom.

Show up for the parent events (concerts, etc). Do not volunteer at school.

NP here - I have consistently volunteered at my son's high school now for 3 years. It is the most loving thing you can do for a child!

You are wrong.

The kids do not want their parents hanging out at their school during the teen years. That is there space.

Volunteer for the normal teen parent stuff: sports boosters, career day, taking tickets at the musical, band boosters.

Do not volunteer at the school in the classrooms. Your kid does not want you there. That is their world. It is embarrassing, not loving to volunteer during the day at your kids middle school or high school. You went to high school and middle school already. Please don't be that mom. They don't see it as loving. They see it as an embarrassing intrusion.

I disagree. Depends on the kid. Mine loves that I come in and volunteer sometimes. I get on with all the kids and give them all weird names. Apparently, I'm cool! Who knew. Took 20 years....

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Volunteer at school and hang in the background, and discreetly observe.

Also ask the teacher for a conference and ask her ahead of time to observe the social dynamics in class so she can tell you what she observes.

What I’ve noticed is that sometimes kids get labeled unlikable and it can stick in a smaller school. I thinks it’s sort of like bullying but subtle.

Does your dd do unsocial things like read a book instead of chatting during school or at lunch? Or does she unknowingly say rude or hurtful things? Or is she the type that complains and doesn’t go along with others?

Do NOT do the bolded in middle school. Please.

The teens notice their classmates who always have their parents at school, and openly feel sorry for them. If your kid is awkward or having trouble with friends, don't be that mom.

Show up for the parent events (concerts, etc). Do not volunteer at school.

NP here - I have consistently volunteered at my son's high school now for 3 years. It is the most loving thing you can do for a child!

You are wrong.

The kids do not want their parents hanging out at their school during the teen years. That is there space.

Volunteer for the normal teen parent stuff: sports boosters, career day, taking tickets at the musical, band boosters.

Do not volunteer at the school in the classrooms. Your kid does not want you there. That is their world. It is embarrassing, not loving to volunteer during the day at your kids middle school or high school. You went to high school and middle school already. Please don't be that mom. They don't see it as loving. They see it as an embarrassing intrusion.

Agree. Even if they don't see it that way, you're acting as a security blanket way past the age when they should be experiencing autonomy.

If you're thinking, no I'm not being a security blanket! Ask yourself why you consider it so loving then.

If op’s daughter is in elementary, it’s fine to volunteer in class.

12 is middle school (6th or 7th).

PPs son is in high school. WAY too old for the parent to be coming into the classroom or school as a volunteer, unless as part of a sports or activities booster.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP how do you know she isnt HFA / Aspergers? Just curious

We've had her tested multiple times by reputable psychologists and psychiatrists.

You have had her tested multiple times for autism? A neuropsych evaluation costs 5k or 2 years on the waiting list under insurance. It is also ONLY performed by a neuropsychologist. Not by a psychologist or a psychiatrist.

I have a DC who was "tested" multiple times by psychologists and pediatricians for other things. I always asked about Aspergers and they always said no. What they should be required by law to say is "I am not qualified to form an opinion " because they are not. However, they did and said no. They were wrong and their ineptitude cost DC years of proper, targeted help.

You mention social problems and clumsiness. These are two red flags. Contact a neuropsychologist. Preferably one who specializes in girls and autism.

Sigh. There is no such thing as "Aspergers" anymore. Neuropsychs have realized that merely being clumsy and socially awkward is within the normal spectrum of humanity and does not mean that a person has a neurological disorder. So, as the OP stated, her child does not have autism. Now, that does not mean that her daughter would not clearly benefit from sort sort of social classes/therapy to help her out.

+1,000. Yes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP how do you know she isnt HFA / Aspergers? Just curious

We've had her tested multiple times by reputable psychologists and psychiatrists.

You have had her tested multiple times for autism? A neuropsych evaluation costs 5k or 2 years on the waiting list under insurance. It is also ONLY performed by a neuropsychologist. Not by a psychologist or a psychiatrist.

I have a DC who was "tested" multiple times by psychologists and pediatricians for other things. I always asked about Aspergers and they always said no. What they should be required by law to say is "I am not qualified to form an opinion " because they are not. However, they did and said no. They were wrong and their ineptitude cost DC years of proper, targeted help.

You mention social problems and clumsiness. These are two red flags. Contact a neuropsychologist. Preferably one who specializes in girls and autism.

Sigh. There is no such thing as "Aspergers" anymore. Neuropsychs have realized that merely being clumsy and socially awkward is within the normal spectrum of humanity and does not mean that a person has a neurological disorder. So, as the OP stated, her child does not have autism. Now, that does not mean that her daughter would not clearly benefit from sort sort of social classes/therapy to help her out.

I'm sorry but this is not true. I understand that you got this information from somewhere, but your source was not accurate. It does a disservice to families who have children who were dxed as having Asperger's in the past by minimizing it in a misleading and inaccurate way. Those people have autism.

Asperger's is not diagnosed anymore because it became officially included in the Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD).

https://www.autismspeaks.org/what-asperger-syndrome

Asperger syndrome, or Asperger’s, is a previously used diagnosis on the autism spectrum. In 2013, it became part of one umbrella diagnosis of autism spectrum disorder (ASD) in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 5 (DSM-5).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP how do you know she isnt HFA / Aspergers? Just curious

We've had her tested multiple times by reputable psychologists and psychiatrists.

You have had her tested multiple times for autism? A neuropsych evaluation costs 5k or 2 years on the waiting list under insurance. It is also ONLY performed by a neuropsychologist. Not by a psychologist or a psychiatrist.

I have a DC who was "tested" multiple times by psychologists and pediatricians for other things. I always asked about Aspergers and they always said no. What they should be required by law to say is "I am not qualified to form an opinion " because they are not. However, they did and said no. They were wrong and their ineptitude cost DC years of proper, targeted help.

You mention social problems and clumsiness. These are two red flags. Contact a neuropsychologist. Preferably one who specializes in girls and autism.

Sigh. There is no such thing as "Aspergers" anymore. Neuropsychs have realized that merely being clumsy and socially awkward is within the normal spectrum of humanity and does not mean that a person has a neurological disorder. So, as the OP stated, her child does not have autism. Now, that does not mean that her daughter would not clearly benefit from sort sort of social classes/therapy to help her out.

Really?

Is that true?

Anonymous wrote:OP, do you have pets or possibly cook things that have a lingering odor? Your daughter might stink or have some other body/hygiene thing that you don't notice.

My BFF in elementary school was the "stinky" kid, but she was so sweet that we just sucked it up. Her family had 2 huge dogs that they kept inside. So EVERYTHING smelled like dog. There was nothing wrong with her but it meant that those of us who hung around her would occasionally get teased, too.

If this could POSSIBLY be the case, have a housekeeper do a deep clean and try switching out your soaps, toothpaste and laundry detergent.

Two TBLs of Eucalyptus oil in your washer. Amazon sells it by the quart. It kills EVERY smell, except maybe not skunk.

I use it on pretty much everything.

OP, there is nothing wrong with your daughter. I was in the same situation as you. I worried because as moms we want our children to be happy and we worry when we see that they are being excluded. This is what we did when DD was 12. Both of us read "Queen Bees and Wannabes" and while people think this book is about bullies, it also gives a great understanding of the hive mindset of preteen girls.

Taking her to a therapist because you think there is something wrong with her, may make her feel even more anxious and like a failure. Mainly because there is nothing wrong with her. (My DD was adored by most adults because she was so mature and bright in her thinking). Take her to a therapist to talk about how to handle girl cliques, if that.

Do not let her show these girls her need to be with them. To that end, having her in different activities helps to get out of that circle and helps her meet new people. Do not overdo stuff where you are trying to invite other children to expensive activities. That does not work and makes her and you seem desperate (which at this point you may be. Trust me that these girls can smell this and they can gang up against such a person.

Spend time with her and fill her days with so many activities that she is learning, growing, experiencing different things and therefore becoming an interesting person, but not really having too much time to sit around and mope. Explore different activities with her.

The moment my kid moved to middle school, the small ES pond became a large lake and suddenly she found that there were other kids like her. She started to do very well academically, and was involved in big or small way in most of the school activities (played a tree in a school play - and that was fine) even if she did not excel in those, She signed up for almost all clubs, every day after school. HS became even better because the lake was now an ocean and what mattered was how great an applicant you were for high school. My kid suddenly became a rockstar in school because the time that was spent in developing her EC skills and her academic skills was not starting to give her excellent returns and people were jockeying to be in activities and team with her. Even their parents became super nice. LOL

She is a graduate student now. She is very well-liked in every volunteer work, every club, every class, every internship, every presentation, every parttime job that she has done. She has flowered and now she looks back and thinks that what happened with her was actually the best thing for her. It made her self aware, made her more social (we practised small talk), and more able to stand on her own. This experience has made me very close to my DD. We never had the mother-daughter falling out because I was her biggest cheerleader and always available. She has stayed on the straight and narrow and has a very strong and close group of friends. You will have a similar outcome. All the best and please give hugs to your daughter.

Op you are describing my child. She has some anxiety and depression and ADHD and is in therapy for that and on a small does of anti depressant. She's immature for her age and often engages in inappropriate goofing off to try to get the attention of the other kids. Example, I went in to have lunch with the kids in the caf. My child was trying to clown in front of the other kids and put some of her chocolate pudding on her face. They all just looked at her like she was a weirdo. Which she was being at that moment. I went in to art club to pick her up after school. ALL the other kids were at the tables working on a project. My kid was at the side of the room, reading a book on the floor. When I asked her why she said, "I already finished". Ok fine, but that is ALWAYS my kid. Always the odd one out or off on her own. The teachers see this too.

My older daughter was similar. She got into theatre tech in middle school and found a group of similar, nerdy kids and seems at home now in high school. I agree with some of the suggestions you have gotten here about extracurriculars.

One thing I do with my kids, I have them help me foster dogs. They appear on FB posts with the dogs when the dogs are marketed, get to talk to the volunteers and adopters in the organization, and feel good about themselves for helping a dog come out of its shell. I also make the effort to set up play dates whenever possible with the one or two kids I know will play with my child. (There are one or two from her old school who don't seem to mind her odd behaviors). Helping others through your church or a local program like GIVE tutoring could help too. (I think technically YOU would be the tutor but you can do it together with your child helping another child). https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSd9XdLEjmjZv4OLhqJOGLI-fe_Q8Q5rq8-Wn0z8EG7nrVTgPg/viewform

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP how do you know she isnt HFA / Aspergers? Just curious

We've had her tested multiple times by reputable psychologists and psychiatrists.

You have had her tested multiple times for autism? A neuropsych evaluation costs 5k or 2 years on the waiting list under insurance. It is also ONLY performed by a neuropsychologist. Not by a psychologist or a psychiatrist.

I have a DC who was "tested" multiple times by psychologists and pediatricians for other things. I always asked about Aspergers and they always said no. What they should be required by law to say is "I am not qualified to form an opinion " because they are not. However, they did and said no. They were wrong and their ineptitude cost DC years of proper, targeted help.

You mention social problems and clumsiness. These are two red flags. Contact a neuropsychologist. Preferably one who specializes in girls and autism.

Sigh. There is no such thing as "Aspergers" anymore. Neuropsychs have realized that merely being clumsy and socially awkward is within the normal spectrum of humanity and does not mean that a person has a neurological disorder. So, as the OP stated, her child does not have autism. Now, that does not mean that her daughter would not clearly benefit from sort sort of social classes/therapy to help her out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Volunteer at school and hang in the background, and discreetly observe.

Also ask the teacher for a conference and ask her ahead of time to observe the social dynamics in class so she can tell you what she observes.

What I’ve noticed is that sometimes kids get labeled unlikable and it can stick in a smaller school. I thinks it’s sort of like bullying but subtle.

Does your dd do unsocial things like read a book instead of chatting during school or at lunch? Or does she unknowingly say rude or hurtful things? Or is she the type that complains and doesn’t go along with others?

Do NOT do the bolded in middle school. Please.

The teens notice their classmates who always have their parents at school, and openly feel sorry for them. If your kid is awkward or having trouble with friends, don't be that mom.

Show up for the parent events (concerts, etc). Do not volunteer at school.

NP here - I have consistently volunteered at my son's high school now for 3 years. It is the most loving thing you can do for a child!

You are wrong.

The kids do not want their parents hanging out at their school during the teen years. That is there space.

Volunteer for the normal teen parent stuff: sports boosters, career day, taking tickets at the musical, band boosters.

Do not volunteer at the school in the classrooms. Your kid does not want you there. That is their world. It is embarrassing, not loving to volunteer during the day at your kids middle school or high school. You went to high school and middle school already. Please don't be that mom. They don't see it as loving. They see it as an embarrassing intrusion.

Agree. Even if they don't see it that way, you're acting as a security blanket way past the age when they should be experiencing autonomy.

If you're thinking, no I'm not being a security blanket! Ask yourself why you consider it so loving then.

If op’s daughter is in elementary, it’s fine to volunteer in class.

Anonymous wrote:I was like this as a kid. I think I had some slightly awkward/immature behaviors as a very young child (for instance I cried too easily) and that got me excluded, and pretty soon it was a vicious cycle of coming across even weirder and more desperate as I missed out on the social experiences my peers were getting. Finally found a great group of other nerdy kids at the end of high school, and then had a normal college experience socially and have a great circle of friends as an adult. So please don’t despair and focus on keeping your daughter happy in the meantime- for me things like the spelling bee and science fairs where I excelled helped me keep my confidence during those elementary and middle school years. Also keep exposing her to different groups of kids- you might try things that homeschoolers tend to participate in like 4H; there tend to be a higher proportion of slightly awkward but sweet kids who may be more accepting.

Thank you. This is very helpful.

Anonymous wrote:OP here- thank you for the responses and advice. I'm signing her up for some classes that I think she will enjoy.

Please know that I am not looking for her to be popular or with a 'certain' group of kids. I just want her to find ANYONE to talk to.

Do you tell her to look for someone sitting alone who needs a friend? Just wondering

I didn’t have time to read all the comments but I am wondering something.

Do you feel like you know which girls are popular and which ones are the queen bees and those are the ones you’re focusing on?
Are there not other quirky girls she can befriend?

My own oldest son is a little quirky and doesn’t have a million friends. But as long as he has a few I have to be ok with that (even though I’m extroverted).

I agree on talking to the teacher. For example despite what I just said about my own son his 4th grader teacher said she really has no social concerns so I decided I really do have to let it go.

I agree with encouraging activities.

Good luck.

I was like this as a kid. I think I had some slightly awkward/immature behaviors as a very young child (for instance I cried too easily) and that got me excluded, and pretty soon it was a vicious cycle of coming across even weirder and more desperate as I missed out on the social experiences my peers were getting. Finally found a great group of other nerdy kids at the end of high school, and then had a normal college experience socially and have a great circle of friends as an adult. So please don’t despair and focus on keeping your daughter happy in the meantime- for me things like the spelling bee and science fairs where I excelled helped me keep my confidence during those elementary and middle school years. Also keep exposing her to different groups of kids- you might try things that homeschoolers tend to participate in like 4H; there tend to be a higher proportion of slightly awkward but sweet kids who may be more accepting.

OP, have you had private discussions with teachers and the guidance counselor at school? I'm sure they will have some insight about your daughter's interpersonal dynamics for you.