Exactly, the theory expressed above might work for a couple of ES, but it doesn't explain at all whats going on in every ES school in Silver Spring. SS is full of people in all categories who make far less than 250K and if that is the case it should be reflected in achievement if SES is so important.

At the population level, some of that is reflected in test scores and college matriculation rates. But at the individual level, kids who are demographically similar perform similarly across the county. So a MC/UMC kid with engaged and educated parents will have the same outcome whether their parents stay in their "starter house" in Takoma Park, or leverage to the eyeballs to move west. The outcomes are the same for those kids because the advantages that are conferred by engaged and educated parents are the same.

No one is arguing that Silver Spring schools are full to the rafters with kids whose parents make $250K or more. Most Silver Spring and Takoma Park schools are economically and racially integrated, which residents view as a feature, not a bug.

I also don't want to overlook high achieving kids whose parents aren't high earners. We have many of those on the east side as well. But if we're talking about an apples to apples comparison of middle class kids with good supports, the data shows those kids are going to do well no matter what and it is neither necessary nor preferable to choose segregated schools in order to "ensure" good outcomes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We bought a modest house in the low 7 figures near SS a few years back. Our house is nothing special for the area. It's convenient to the metro and located in a charming old neighborhood. Most people here could live anywhere in the county they want to but liked the character of this area better than the more generic choices. Sure, the schools are more diverse, but to bring this full circle, there's also a strong high achieving cohort.

A modest million-dollar house near Silver Spring that's convenient to the Metro?

Not the PP but there are many historic homes near the Takoma metro in that range.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We bought a modest house in the low 7 figures near SS a few years back. Our house is nothing special for the area. It's convenient to the metro and located in a charming old neighborhood. Most people here could live anywhere in the county they want to but liked the character of this area better than the more generic choices. Sure, the schools are more diverse, but to bring this full circle, there's also a strong high achieving cohort.

A modest million-dollar house near Silver Spring that's convenient to the Metro?

I’d assume PP meant low 700s but I could be wrong.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

All I know is the average SAT score for my kid's cohort at Blair even not including magnet students is still better than any W.

Funny, Blair's scores are so low compared to the rest of the county, there must only be a precious few of your cohort there and not enough to move the needle. Shame most of them go home west after school hours compounding your kid's unicorn status

That is funny because the county's data shows otherwise.

Blair 1326
BCC 1291
Walter Johnson 1275
Wooton 1262
Churchill 1257

here the source on page 16 of the pdf or listed as 8 on the document
https://bit.ly/2x3tS5X

I remember reading this a while ago. Their intent was to look past simple averages that GS uses which serve only to identify which high-schools draw a higher percentage of rich kids., and provide a better, refined analysis that looks at the granular data.

When you isolate for race which is proxy a for socioeconomic status there is not much of a disparity between the performance of kids of the same backgrounds across these schools. For example, when you compare average SAT scores for MCPS schools for a larger demographic common to all these schools where the great schools narrative begins to fall apart and it becomes clear they're not all that different.

If that's true than the socioeconomic difference between W's and SS ( which there almost certainly has to be a difference) has no impact on scores for some groups.

That makes some sense, as the research shows the biggest indicator of test scores is parental education and to a lesser extent SES. Here on DCUM, we're used to parsing the difference between being in the top 5% of Americans for income (HHI of $200K) and the top 1% (HHI of $500K +), but those gradations don't make much difference on student outcomes, in part because people in the top 5% and people in the top 1% tend to have pretty similar education levels.

So, a two-federal worker family in Silver Spring has a HHI of around $250K. A two private sector family in Potomac has a HHI of $750K. But there is unlikely to be a substantial difference in parental education levels between those two families. Both families probably have parents with advanced degrees, where higher education is encouraged and expected, etc. Both families can afford to support extracurricular activities to allow their kids to pursue their passions. One family has nicer cars, a "better' neighborhood, probably more interesting vacations, but the fundamentals are pretty similar and outcomes are also similar.

great post

By far most of the people in silver spring are not close to a 250K double fed family. Most people in Potomac are at least that. That is the difference and if you don’t think the burden of the dregs of society aren’t a factor of an area’s QOL then you’re naive

Exactly, the theory expressed above might work for a couple of ES, but it doesn't explain at all whats going on in every ES school in Silver Spring. SS is full of people in all categories who make far less than 250K and if that is the case it should be reflected in achievement if SES is so important.

Anonymous wrote:We bought a modest house in the low 7 figures near SS a few years back. Our house is nothing special for the area. It's convenient to the metro and located in a charming old neighborhood. Most people here could live anywhere in the county they want to but liked the character of this area better than the more generic choices. Sure, the schools are more diverse, but to bring this full circle, there's also a strong high achieving cohort.

A modest million-dollar house near Silver Spring that's convenient to the Metro?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

All I know is the average SAT score for my kid's cohort at Blair even not including magnet students is still better than any W.

Funny, Blair's scores are so low compared to the rest of the county, there must only be a precious few of your cohort there and not enough to move the needle. Shame most of them go home west after school hours compounding your kid's unicorn status

That is funny because the county's data shows otherwise.

Blair 1326
BCC 1291
Walter Johnson 1275
Wooton 1262
Churchill 1257

here the source on page 16 of the pdf or listed as 8 on the document
https://bit.ly/2x3tS5X

I remember reading this a while ago. Their intent was to look past simple averages that GS uses which serve only to identify which high-schools draw a higher percentage of rich kids., and provide a better, refined analysis that looks at the granular data.

When you isolate for race which is proxy a for socioeconomic status there is not much of a disparity between the performance of kids of the same backgrounds across these schools. For example, when you compare average SAT scores for MCPS schools for a larger demographic common to all these schools where the great schools narrative begins to fall apart and it becomes clear they're not all that different.

If that's true than the socioeconomic difference between W's and SS ( which there almost certainly has to be a difference) has no impact on scores for some groups.

That makes some sense, as the research shows the biggest indicator of test scores is parental education and to a lesser extent SES. Here on DCUM, we're used to parsing the difference between being in the top 5% of Americans for income (HHI of $200K) and the top 1% (HHI of $500K +), but those gradations don't make much difference on student outcomes, in part because people in the top 5% and people in the top 1% tend to have pretty similar education levels.

Sums it up.

We bought a modest house in the low 7 figures near SS a few years back. Our house is nothing special for the area. It's convenient to the metro and located in a charming old neighborhood. Most people here could live anywhere in the county they want to but liked the character of this area better than the more generic choices. Sure, the schools are more diverse, but to bring this full circle, there's also a strong high achieving cohort.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

All I know is the average SAT score for my kid's cohort at Blair even not including magnet students is still better than any W.

Funny, Blair's scores are so low compared to the rest of the county, there must only be a precious few of your cohort there and not enough to move the needle. Shame most of them go home west after school hours compounding your kid's unicorn status

That is funny because the county's data shows otherwise.

Blair 1326
BCC 1291
Walter Johnson 1275
Wooton 1262
Churchill 1257

here the source on page 16 of the pdf or listed as 8 on the document
https://bit.ly/2x3tS5X

I remember reading this a while ago. Their intent was to look past simple averages that GS uses which serve only to identify which high-schools draw a higher percentage of rich kids., and provide a better, refined analysis that looks at the granular data.

When you isolate for race which is proxy a for socioeconomic status there is not much of a disparity between the performance of kids of the same backgrounds across these schools. For example, when you compare average SAT scores for MCPS schools for a larger demographic common to all these schools where the great schools narrative begins to fall apart and it becomes clear they're not all that different.

If that's true than the socioeconomic difference between W's and SS ( which there almost certainly has to be a difference) has no impact on scores for some groups.

That makes some sense, as the research shows the biggest indicator of test scores is parental education and to a lesser extent SES. Here on DCUM, we're used to parsing the difference between being in the top 5% of Americans for income (HHI of $200K) and the top 1% (HHI of $500K +), but those gradations don't make much difference on student outcomes, in part because people in the top 5% and people in the top 1% tend to have pretty similar education levels.

So, a two-federal worker family in Silver Spring has a HHI of around $250K. A two private sector family in Potomac has a HHI of $750K. But there is unlikely to be a substantial difference in parental education levels between those two families. Both families probably have parents with advanced degrees, where higher education is encouraged and expected, etc. Both families can afford to support extracurricular activities to allow their kids to pursue their passions. One family has nicer cars, a "better' neighborhood, probably more interesting vacations, but the fundamentals are pretty similar and outcomes are also similar.

great post

By far most of the people in silver spring are not close to a 250K double fed family. Most people in Potomac are at least that. That is the difference and if you don’t think the burden of the dregs of society aren’t a factor of an area’s QOL then you’re naive

Silver Spring is enormous. I doubt you are actually familiar with most of it. In 20901 and 20910 $250k is fairly typical. Based on what I and my neighbors do for a living, I’d say that’s the norm in our neighborhood.
But I don’t expect someone who talks about “the dregs if society “ to believe that. But you are only showing your ignorance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

All I know is the average SAT score for my kid's cohort at Blair even not including magnet students is still better than any W.

Funny, Blair's scores are so low compared to the rest of the county, there must only be a precious few of your cohort there and not enough to move the needle. Shame most of them go home west after school hours compounding your kid's unicorn status

That is funny because the county's data shows otherwise.

Blair 1326
BCC 1291
Walter Johnson 1275
Wooton 1262
Churchill 1257

here the source on page 16 of the pdf or listed as 8 on the document
https://bit.ly/2x3tS5X

I remember reading this a while ago. Their intent was to look past simple averages that GS uses which serve only to identify which high-schools draw a higher percentage of rich kids., and provide a better, refined analysis that looks at the granular data.

When you isolate for race which is proxy a for socioeconomic status there is not much of a disparity between the performance of kids of the same backgrounds across these schools. For example, when you compare average SAT scores for MCPS schools for a larger demographic common to all these schools where the great schools narrative begins to fall apart and it becomes clear they're not all that different.

If that's true than the socioeconomic difference between W's and SS ( which there almost certainly has to be a difference) has no impact on scores for some groups.

That makes some sense, as the research shows the biggest indicator of test scores is parental education and to a lesser extent SES. Here on DCUM, we're used to parsing the difference between being in the top 5% of Americans for income (HHI of $200K) and the top 1% (HHI of $500K +), but those gradations don't make much difference on student outcomes, in part because people in the top 5% and people in the top 1% tend to have pretty similar education levels.

So, a two-federal worker family in Silver Spring has a HHI of around $250K. A two private sector family in Potomac has a HHI of $750K. But there is unlikely to be a substantial difference in parental education levels between those two families. Both families probably have parents with advanced degrees, where higher education is encouraged and expected, etc. Both families can afford to support extracurricular activities to allow their kids to pursue their passions. One family has nicer cars, a "better' neighborhood, probably more interesting vacations, but the fundamentals are pretty similar and outcomes are also similar.

great post

By far most of the people in silver spring are not close to a 250K double fed family. Most people in Potomac are at least that. That is the difference and if you don’t think the burden of the dregs of society aren’t a factor of an area’s QOL then you’re naive

We all know it is the same blair booster talking to your self, no one is fascinated

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

All I know is the average SAT score for my kid's cohort at Blair even not including magnet students is still better than any W.

Funny, Blair's scores are so low compared to the rest of the county, there must only be a precious few of your cohort there and not enough to move the needle. Shame most of them go home west after school hours compounding your kid's unicorn status

That is funny because the county's data shows otherwise.

Blair 1326
BCC 1291
Walter Johnson 1275
Wooton 1262
Churchill 1257

here the source on page 16 of the pdf or listed as 8 on the document
https://bit.ly/2x3tS5X

I remember reading this a while ago. Their intent was to look past simple averages that GS uses which serve only to identify which high-schools draw a higher percentage of rich kids., and provide a better, refined analysis that looks at the granular data.

When you isolate for race which is proxy a for socioeconomic status there is not much of a disparity between the performance of kids of the same backgrounds across these schools. For example, when you compare average SAT scores for MCPS schools for a larger demographic common to all these schools where the great schools narrative begins to fall apart and it becomes clear they're not all that different.

If that's true than the socioeconomic difference between W's and SS ( which there almost certainly has to be a difference) has no impact on scores for some groups.

That makes some sense, as the research shows the biggest indicator of test scores is parental education and to a lesser extent SES. Here on DCUM, we're used to parsing the difference between being in the top 5% of Americans for income (HHI of $200K) and the top 1% (HHI of $500K +), but those gradations don't make much difference on student outcomes, in part because people in the top 5% and people in the top 1% tend to have pretty similar education levels.

So, a two-federal worker family in Silver Spring has a HHI of around $250K. A two private sector family in Potomac has a HHI of $750K. But there is unlikely to be a substantial difference in parental education levels between those two families. Both families probably have parents with advanced degrees, where higher education is encouraged and expected, etc. Both families can afford to support extracurricular activities to allow their kids to pursue their passions. One family has nicer cars, a "better' neighborhood, probably more interesting vacations, but the fundamentals are pretty similar and outcomes are also similar.

great post

Interesting. Probably helps to explain why two of the 4 or 5 middle school clusters with the largest number of kids who were qualified for the Magnet (and who therefore did not get in thanks to peer cohort) were SSIMS and Sligo. Tons of highly educated parents who work in the government or non profit or have one parent (very often with a graduate degree) staying at home/ working part time.
The achievement gap is largely a symptom of SES differences which in the DMV tends to track closely with educational differences. You can get rid of high school exams, and move the selection criteria for magnets away from test scores but you cannot change the underlying cause- no school system can

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

All I know is the average SAT score for my kid's cohort at Blair even not including magnet students is still better than any W.

Funny, Blair's scores are so low compared to the rest of the county, there must only be a precious few of your cohort there and not enough to move the needle. Shame most of them go home west after school hours compounding your kid's unicorn status

That is funny because the county's data shows otherwise.

Blair 1326
BCC 1291
Walter Johnson 1275
Wooton 1262
Churchill 1257

here the source on page 16 of the pdf or listed as 8 on the document
https://bit.ly/2x3tS5X

I remember reading this a while ago. Their intent was to look past simple averages that GS uses which serve only to identify which high-schools draw a higher percentage of rich kids., and provide a better, refined analysis that looks at the granular data.

When you isolate for race which is proxy a for socioeconomic status there is not much of a disparity between the performance of kids of the same backgrounds across these schools. For example, when you compare average SAT scores for MCPS schools for a larger demographic common to all these schools where the great schools narrative begins to fall apart and it becomes clear they're not all that different.

hard to argue with facts. Thx for clearing this up

fascinating

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

All I know is the average SAT score for my kid's cohort at Blair even not including magnet students is still better than any W.

Funny, Blair's scores are so low compared to the rest of the county, there must only be a precious few of your cohort there and not enough to move the needle. Shame most of them go home west after school hours compounding your kid's unicorn status

That is funny because the county's data shows otherwise.

Blair 1326
BCC 1291
Walter Johnson 1275
Wooton 1262
Churchill 1257

here the source on page 16 of the pdf or listed as 8 on the document
https://bit.ly/2x3tS5X

I remember reading this a while ago. Their intent was to look past simple averages that GS uses which serve only to identify which high-schools draw a higher percentage of rich kids., and provide a better, refined analysis that looks at the granular data.

When you isolate for race which is proxy a for socioeconomic status there is not much of a disparity between the performance of kids of the same backgrounds across these schools. For example, when you compare average SAT scores for MCPS schools for a larger demographic common to all these schools where the great schools narrative begins to fall apart and it becomes clear they're not all that different.

If that's true than the socioeconomic difference between W's and SS ( which there almost certainly has to be a difference) has no impact on scores for some groups.

That makes some sense, as the research shows the biggest indicator of test scores is parental education and to a lesser extent SES. Here on DCUM, we're used to parsing the difference between being in the top 5% of Americans for income (HHI of $200K) and the top 1% (HHI of $500K +), but those gradations don't make much difference on student outcomes, in part because people in the top 5% and people in the top 1% tend to have pretty similar education levels.

So, a two-federal worker family in Silver Spring has a HHI of around $250K. A two private sector family in Potomac has a HHI of $750K. But there is unlikely to be a substantial difference in parental education levels between those two families. Both families probably have parents with advanced degrees, where higher education is encouraged and expected, etc. Both families can afford to support extracurricular activities to allow their kids to pursue their passions. One family has nicer cars, a "better' neighborhood, probably more interesting vacations, but the fundamentals are pretty similar and outcomes are also similar.

great post

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ good point

It is a good point but it doesn't explain it all. I'm sure there are many people EOR who are even superior in academic acheivements than those WOR but simply are not in a high paying field. However, I would imagine that there are plenty of lower achieving families also. Likewise, I would just guess that many POC EOR have a high level of education and simply choose to live in more diverse neighborhoods. I wonder if there are just far more tilt to lower SES EOR for certain groups.

EOR?

Sorry EOTR, east of the river

This is the Maryland Public Schools forum. Which river are you referring to?

You must not frequent this board often... do a search...

I am a new poster. EOTR generally is used in DC in reference to the SE quadrant, east of the Anacostia. It isn't clear how EOTR applies to a disucssion of Bethesda and Kensington, MD.

It does not.
Everyone and their mothers love to read and comment on the MD schools forum (especially if it's about MCPS ), so PP got confused of which forum she was.

I think that east of rock creek would be the relevance here