Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since race is a social construct, I hardly think “Jews are a race” to be without question and undebatable.
Your statement doesn’t even make sense. Are you saying that the ashkenazi and Sephardim are separate racial groups? You realize that there are Jews who fit into neither category?
Are Muslims a race? Hindus?

Just stop.

I don’t know about Muslims or Hindus, but yes — Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews (as well as some others) are considered racial groups. I had the Ashkenazi Jew genetic screening panel done when I was pregnant. My 23 and me results say “50% Ashkenazi Jewish.”

I don’t know what I’m talking about.

Fixed it for you, genius

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is just a theory, but it seems to me that OP is "proud" of her Ashkenazi Jewish "ethnicity" because she is fearful about the dilutuon of that bloodline as Jews intermarry. Im Hindu Indian married to an Ashkenazi Jew. We are vaguely following aspects of both religions, but arguably neither. Our kids see themselves as both. That is a threat to the OP and other religious nationalists who see the mixing of religions and cultures as a threat. Also, to complicate matters, I am an atheist and dont give one fig about it.

hinjews and chinjews (zuckerberg's kids) are going to be the supereme rulers of the future. when you combine the smartest races - watch out!

whereas the Jewirish may just combine the worst elements of both ethnicities -- loud arguing, grudges, overtalking, red hair, boozing, and maternal guilt.

KIDDING!!!

Anonymous wrote:This is just a theory, but it seems to me that OP is "proud" of her Ashkenazi Jewish "ethnicity" because she is fearful about the dilutuon of that bloodline as Jews intermarry. Im Hindu Indian married to an Ashkenazi Jew. We are vaguely following aspects of both religions, but arguably neither. Our kids see themselves as both. That is a threat to the OP and other religious nationalists who see the mixing of religions and cultures as a threat. Also, to complicate matters, I am an atheist and dont give one fig about it.

hinjews and chinjews (zuckerberg's kids) are going to be the supereme rulers of the future. when you combine the smartest races - watch out!

Anonymous wrote:They say 2 Jews, 3 opinions, but clearly they never knew DCUM Jews. I the opinions multiply.

There's not enough Jews so I vote against limits. If you are a racially, culturally, ethnically, religiously, or ANY other way a Jew, join a shul and join us and start supporting Jewish heritage and Israel!

Unless you're going to join and then argue that the shul should drop all Jewish traditions and start celebrating Christmas, b/c assimilation doesn't make anyone less Jewish, and it's better for America.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s complicated.

- a Jew

Yes, but there’s no question there’s a genetic group (commonly called an ethnicity) called Ashkenazi Jewish and one called Sephardic Jewish. That means being Jewish can have an ethnic component for those who have those backgrounds. It can also be a purely religious identity or a cultural one, or a combination of the three.

White supremacists have exploited the ethnic component of Jewish civilization, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

Fine then it's ethnic in the same way being Irish Catholic is likely ethnic. Why does it matter? And why is the ethnicity defined as a religion, versus a geographical region or language group?

They say 2 Jews, 3 opinions, but clearly they never knew DCUM Jews. I the opinions multiply.

There's not enough Jews so I vote against limits. If you are a racially, culturally, ethnically, religiously, or ANY other way a Jew, join a shul and join us and start supporting Jewish heritage and Israel!

Anonymous wrote:It’s complicated.

- a Jew

Yes, but there’s no question there’s a genetic group (commonly called an ethnicity) called Ashkenazi Jewish and one called Sephardic Jewish. That means being Jewish can have an ethnic component for those who have those backgrounds. It can also be a purely religious identity or a cultural one, or a combination of the three.

White supremacists have exploited the ethnic component of Jewish civilization, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

It’s complicated.

- a Jew

Anonymous wrote:This is just a theory, but it seems to me that OP is "proud" of her Ashkenazi Jewish "ethnicity" because she is fearful about the dilutuon of that bloodline as Jews intermarry. Im Hindu Indian married to an Ashkenazi Jew. We are vaguely following aspects of both religions, but arguably neither. Our kids see themselves as both. That is a threat to the OP and other religious nationalists who see the mixing of religions and cultures as a threat. Also, to complicate matters, I am an atheist and dont give one fig about it.

I am the poster with the maternal Jewish great grandparents. I agree with your theory. Back in my grandparents and great grandparents era, marrying outside your ethnic background was uncommon, especially with new immigrants. Even though my great grand parents gave up Judaism when they immigrated, at least they and their children married within their ethnic background. They enjoyed their customs, food, etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure what this point of view serves, except for Jewish people to be able to claim “racism” when faced with prejudice. But it’s both wrong and not necessary. You CAN be Jewish and any racial/ethnic group. You can also fully make it argument that it’s wrong to be prejudiced against someone on the basis of religion/culture. It’s not a contest.

You’re an idiot. It’s not an opinion or a contest; it’s a FACT.

Judaism is a religion and an ethnicity.

You can be ethnically, but not religiously, Jewish. Or you can be religiously but not ethnically Jewish. Or you can be both.

You're only ethnically Jewish if you have some kind of personal connection to Judaism.

Yes, a genetic connection. Listen, you all can say this isn’t true, but it won’t change facts. The ethnic component of Judaism is why the Israeli Law of Return applies to anyone who can substantiate that at least a grandparent was Jewish. If you can do that, regardless of whether you are a practicing Jew, the Israeli government considers you Jewish and will grant you Israeli citizenship.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_is_a_Jew%3F

Yeah, but the law of return is used to discriminate against Palestinians.

I was born Catholic in California. I could convert to Judaism tomorrow and become an Israeli citizen. Many Russians and Eastern Europeans took advantage of this rule to immigrate during Communism. For those of you insisting, yes because it’s a RELIGION! Well, plenty of atheists with the right DNA also qualify for Israeli citizenship. We would all have more civil rights than a Palestinian who has lived there for generations. That is seriously messed up.

The Russians who immigrated were not converts, but either had Jewish grandparents, or came in as immediate family members of people who did. In fairness there was real persecution of Jews in the Soviet Union as there was not in California. And certainly a more hostile environment to Jews in post 1989 eastern europe and russia than in the USA.

As for civil rights, you would only have the right to enter Israel and become a citizen. You would have no more rights under the law than any Arab born in Israel. Arabs born in the West Bank do not have the same rights, because they are not Israeli citizens. This is a big problem, and one I think can only be resolved by Israel withdrawing from the West Bank, creating a Palestinian state there, and treating it as a foreign country. But the idea that Arab citizens of Israel, born in Haifa or Nazareth, are not equal citizens under the law is a misunderstanding (some on the far right in Israel would want them treated as non-citizens, and that is also a huge danger)

The law of return was designed to, more or less, match the halachic definition of Jewishness, which includes Jews by conversion as well as people with one Jewish mother. And expanded a bit, immediatley post holocaust, to include anyone the Nazis would call a Jew (thus the one grandparent clause) At that time most "secular Jews" really WERE culturally very Jewish (typically Yiddish speakers). Few people were rushing to claim Jewishness, and the economic situation was such few were interested in coming to Israel as Jews who weren't. Arabs were distinct from ariving Jews in their language, customs and self identification. At the time a secular definition of Jewishness might have worked (based on language and national identification) but the religious parties would have rejected it.

Today Israel would have to deal with how a new definition would play out with Hebrew speaking Circassians, guest workers from Thailand, American Jews (like some in this thread) with no real cultural OR religious Jewishness, etc. That does not mean the Law of Return should not be changed - personally I think limiting the immigration rights of "Jews" who have no knowledge of Jewish languages or culture on the one hand, and who are not actually being persecuted on the other hand, would not be a bad thing - though I am not sure it would end the complaints of those who call the Law racist. I might also add a form of secular conversion, that would allow someone with a strong cultural identification with the Jewish people (again, including language, culture AND national identification) to become Jewish even if they don't believe in G-d - though that could also have complications.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure what this point of view serves, except for Jewish people to be able to claim “racism” when faced with prejudice. But it’s both wrong and not necessary. You CAN be Jewish and any racial/ethnic group. You can also fully make it argument that it’s wrong to be prejudiced against someone on the basis of religion/culture. It’s not a contest.

You’re an idiot. It’s not an opinion or a contest; it’s a FACT.

Judaism is a religion and an ethnicity.

You can be ethnically, but not religiously, Jewish. Or you can be religiously but not ethnically Jewish. Or you can be both.

You're only ethnically Jewish if you have some kind of personal connection to Judaism.

Yes, a genetic connection. Listen, you all can say this isn’t true, but it won’t change facts. The ethnic component of Judaism is why the Israeli Law of Return applies to anyone who can substantiate that at least a grandparent was Jewish. If you can do that, regardless of whether you are a practicing Jew, the Israeli government considers you Jewish and will grant you Israeli citizenship.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_is_a_Jew%3F

Yeah, but the law of return is used to discriminate against Palestinians.

I was born Catholic in California. I could convert to Judaism tomorrow and become an Israeli citizen. Many Russians and Eastern Europeans took advantage of this rule to immigrate during Communism. For those of you insisting, yes because it’s a RELIGION! Well, plenty of atheists with the right DNA also qualify for Israeli citizenship. We would all have more civil rights than a Palestinian who has lived there for generations. That is seriously messed up.

Anonymous wrote:I’ve seen this misconception way too many times on this board.

Jews are a racial group. You don’t have to be ethnically Jewish to be Jewish, but Ashkenazi and Sephardic are ethnic identities. You can never practice Judaism and still be Jewish if you have that ethnic background.

Let's make it more clear.

If there's a racial group, for four thousand years, it's indeed Jews.

AAs are just a little asterisk.

Either that, or let's finally acknowledge that the racist concept of race is antiscientific and racist.

Anonymous wrote:Woah.

Stop.

No self-respecting Jew thinks Judaism is a race.

No half-intelligent person who can read a dictionary thinks Judaism is a race.

And the Ruth point makes THIS point -- Ruth converted!!! She was a non-Jew.

This is true even though she came from the people of Lot (Abraham's nephew) and was thus the SAME "race", she was a different religion.

I don't know how to fight all the ignorance and I blame 23&me and Hitler -- not sure who more.

Jews are NOT a race.

Period.

There's no more to add.

I will add just one comment: You are 100% correct.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just do not see it. It sounds like white supremacy garbage. It’s a religion. You choose to believe or not.

I actually think many Jews believe themselves to be a separate race.

NP. Jew here, and none of my friends and relatives believe our race is Jewish. We are consider ourselves Caucasian, and our religion is Judaism.

I think this business about Jews being a separate race is put forward by white supremacists or lesser-level antisemtites in order to keep their race "pure" (in their eyes).