So stupid. It is not a school’s job to be a year round caregiver to poor parents. Parents are the ones that should be raising and teaching their kids - or take birth control or stop speeding your legs and popping out more.

School is a part time gig reinforced at home. THAT is how kids succeed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS has Saturday school for all kids.

It is not free. Even if you are on FARMS.

[i]Nor should it be, everything can’t be free. Some things in life should cost. Otherwise people won’t take it seriously.[b]

New to this thread

Saturday school is more effective for low SES kids

Extended school year is more effective for higher SES kids

If you want to fix the achievement gap long term it comes down to zoning which is a proxy for SES. Put more low income housing and more density in the Western end of the county. Of course most people in the west fight this tooth and nail but that's really what needs to happen. Once a school crosses 40% low SES it becomes very difficult to be a high-performing school

40% lol try 20%.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS has Saturday school for all kids.

It is not free. Even if you are on FARMS.

[i]Nor should it be, everything can’t be free. Some things in life should cost. Otherwise people won’t take it seriously.

New to this thread

Saturday school is more effective for low SES kids

[b]Extended school year is more effective for higher SES kids

If you want to fix the achievement gap long term it comes down to zoning which is a proxy for SES. Put more low income housing and more density in the Western end of the county. Of course most people in the west fight this tooth and nail but that's really what needs to happen. Once a school crosses 40% low SES it becomes very difficult to be a high-performing school

[b]What research do you have that suggests extending the school year is effective for higher SES or lowers SES kids? A few school districts in New Mexico tried it for 5 years and here's what they experienced: more often than not regular teachers opted out of the extension and summer teachers had to be hired which had some affect on kids who primarily speak Spanish at home, many of the kids stopped showing up or did not attend at all, gains were made in reading and math BUT NOT expressive vocabulary, receptive language or social skills (you know the skills you actually need in life). The best results only came with kindergarten after that the results are iffy. Here a link: https://news.unm.edu/news/research-study-yields-unexpected-conclusion-about-longer-school-years[b]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS has Saturday school for all kids.

It is not free. Even if you are on FARMS.

[i]Nor should it be, everything can’t be free. Some things in life should cost. Otherwise people won’t take it seriously.[b]

Its very low cost:

https://www.saturdayschool.org/programs/

FEES
Our fees are set to be low-cost to students and their families.
$85 covers the entire year (fee for the 2018-2019 school year).
(If your family is eligible for FARMs (Free And Reduced-priced Meals), then the fee is $40.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I actually agree with the poster of this thought. I’d have a fit if my children were to be subject to year round schooling. My children are not workers and nor are they academically behind. The one size fits all approach is not what we need. If the county wants to do all year round schooling for children who are behind fine but don’t try to make my children suffer. DH and I like to reward our children with travel and enriching learning experiences. What I don’t expect is my children to have to be in school year round nor do I want to consider that model. I’d be happy to follow a CT or MA school calendar model as they have too school districts in the country outranking even MoCo. Those districts start a week before Labor Day or after Labor Day, have all the holidays, a February mid winter break, Easter/Spring break and get out by June 25.

MCPS is not proposing a year-round calendar. But if MCPS were, it would not be for the purpose of making your children suffer. MCPS does not -- and should not -- set its calendar to benefit or harm your children, or my children, or the particular children of any particular person. If that's too one-size-fits-all for you, or if you require three continuous months of summer vacation in order to be able to reward your children with travel and enriching learning experiences, then I suggest that you consider home-schooling.

+1 So many drama llamas on this thread. We can't even get a school year that extends past June 15 so we could have a proper spring break thanks to Governor Hogan's dictates. Somehow I don't think the extended school year is coming anytime soon.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS has Saturday school for all kids.

It is not free. Even if you are on FARMS.

[i]Nor should it be, everything can’t be free. Some things in life should cost. Otherwise people won’t take it seriously.[b]

New to this thread

Saturday school is more effective for low SES kids

Extended school year is more effective for higher SES kids

If you want to fix the achievement gap long term it comes down to zoning which is a proxy for SES. Put more low income housing and more density in the Western end of the county. Of course most people in the west fight this tooth and nail but that's really what needs to happen. Once a school crosses 40% low SES it becomes very difficult to be a high-performing school

Private school is a great solution if you need 12 full weeks of summer. The more you pay the less you go. I think we counted 170 days when DD was in the last year of ES. That first year in MCPS felt very long to her, but she had a great summer anyway. Lots of camp, travel, and even down time.

Anonymous wrote:

I actually agree with the poster of this thought. I’d have a fit if my children were to be subject to year round schooling. My children are not workers and nor are they academically behind. The one size fits all approach is not what we need. If the county wants to do all year round schooling for children who are behind fine but don’t try to make my children suffer. DH and I like to reward our children with travel and enriching learning experiences. What I don’t expect is my children to have to be in school year round nor do I want to consider that model. I’d be happy to follow a CT or MA school calendar model as they have too school districts in the country outranking even MoCo. Those districts start a week before Labor Day or after Labor Day, have all the holidays, a February mid winter break, Easter/Spring break and get out by June 25.

MCPS is not proposing a year-round calendar. But if MCPS were, it would not be for the purpose of making your children suffer. MCPS does not -- and should not -- set its calendar to benefit or harm your children, or my children, or the particular children of any particular person. If that's too one-size-fits-all for you, or if you require three continuous months of summer vacation in order to be able to reward your children with travel and enriching learning experiences, then I suggest that you consider home-schooling.

MCPS may allow students from families who donot want their child to attend the extended year schools to be transferred to another ES; same policy was carried out for students in dual language schools

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are the issues I have observed from the one year-round school in APS) it was a pilot program, but never expanded to other schools and has not shown results in the short-term as test s ore have actually gone down; as far as I know APS has not collected any longitudinal data to show a long-term benefit for the students as they move through secondary schools).

MC and UMC families opted out. It's a pain to manage two different calendars, so unless all the other schools in MoCo move to this calendar, people with agency will leave. It will also keep new MC and UMC families from moving into the boundaries with this calendar unless their kids are already enrolled in a private or magnet school with a traditional calendar.

It is more challenging to attract teachers. You've limited your potential pool of candidates to those who don't have children of school age.

MC and UMC families want summers, maybe not all 12 weeks, but more than 4. They would rather have their kids doing at least a few camps with the kind of enrichment activities that public schools rarely provide, and summer activities like swim and tennis. They don't want their kids doing test prep and work sheets for an extra two months out of the year, they might be okay with RSM or Kumon, but not two extra months basic stuff. They will opt out of the calendar, especially if the calendar is just implemented in a high poverty neighborhood school. Make it a lottery school, and maybe it has legs.

Low information families will accidentally opt out of the calendar. They won't realize school has been in session when they show up in September. This has happened every year for almost two decades at the one year-round school in APS. Or, they go visit their families for months at a time in another country and disregard the concept of year-round school to do that, even when their children are the intended targets of the extra time in school.

I don't think the answer is to do nothing, rather target the resources better. Instead of giving poor kids a different calendar, try to recreate what families with better resources and understanding of education routinely provide. That means free preschool at age 3. Provide free parenting classes and affinity/support groups for their parents. Obviously not all can or will avail themselves of this resource, but there are many parents who want the best for their kids but have no idea how to provide it because nobody ever taught them. Explicitly teach parents that they are their children's first and most important teacher. Then show them, explicitly, how to do it. Offer full-day enrichments camps and provide meals and bus service for income-qualified students during the summer. And do everything possible to desegregate schools by SES.

These are good points, but most obstacles seem to stem from the 'pilot' nature of the program rather than the program, itself. After a few years, the extended year would become the new norm. And if other schools adopted the same system, you wouldn't have the issue with multiple calendars (which, indeed, seems to be a big problem).

Do you really think they're going to move all schools to the calendar? I don't. It will only be Title 1 or Focus schools, for the same reason they never moved forward in APS.

Extended year =/= year round. There will be plenty of summer left for a pricey camp for Larlo and Larloline.

I actually agree with the poster of this thought. I’d have a fit if my children were to be subject to year round schooling. My children are not workers and nor are they academically behind. The one size fits all approach is not what we need. If the county wants to do all year round schooling for children who are behind fine but don’t try to make my children suffer. DH and I like to reward our children with travel and enriching learning experiences. What I don’t expect is my children to have to be in school year round nor do I want to consider that model. I’d be happy to follow a CT or MA school calendar model as they have too school districts in the country outranking even MoCo. Those districts start a week before Labor Day or after Labor Day, have all the holidays, a February mid winter break, Easter/Spring break and get out by June 25.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS has Saturday school for all kids.

It is not free. Even if you are on FARMS.

[i]Nor should it be, everything can’t be free. Some things in life should cost. Otherwise people won’t take it seriously.[b]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are the issues I have observed from the one year-round school in APS) it was a pilot program, but never expanded to other schools and has not shown results in the short-term as test s ore have actually gone down; as far as I know APS has not collected any longitudinal data to show a long-term benefit for the students as they move through secondary schools).

MC and UMC families opted out. It's a pain to manage two different calendars, so unless all the other schools in MoCo move to this calendar, people with agency will leave. It will also keep new MC and UMC families from moving into the boundaries with this calendar unless their kids are already enrolled in a private or magnet school with a traditional calendar.

It is more challenging to attract teachers. You've limited your potential pool of candidates to those who don't have children of school age.

MC and UMC families want summers, maybe not all 12 weeks, but more than 4. They would rather have their kids doing at least a few camps with the kind of enrichment activities that public schools rarely provide, and summer activities like swim and tennis. They don't want their kids doing test prep and work sheets for an extra two months out of the year, they might be okay with RSM or Kumon, but not two extra months basic stuff. They will opt out of the calendar, especially if the calendar is just implemented in a high poverty neighborhood school. Make it a lottery school, and maybe it has legs.

Low information families will accidentally opt out of the calendar. They won't realize school has been in session when they show up in September. This has happened every year for almost two decades at the one year-round school in APS. Or, they go visit their families for months at a time in another country and disregard the concept of year-round school to do that, even when their children are the intended targets of the extra time in school.

I don't think the answer is to do nothing, rather target the resources better. Instead of giving poor kids a different calendar, try to recreate what families with better resources and understanding of education routinely provide. That means free preschool at age 3. Provide free parenting classes and affinity/support groups for their parents. Obviously not all can or will avail themselves of this resource, but there are many parents who want the best for their kids but have no idea how to provide it because nobody ever taught them. Explicitly teach parents that they are their children's first and most important teacher. Then show them, explicitly, how to do it. Offer full-day enrichments camps and provide meals and bus service for income-qualified students during the summer. And do everything possible to desegregate schools by SES.

These are good points, but most obstacles seem to stem from the 'pilot' nature of the program rather than the program, itself. After a few years, the extended year would become the new norm. And if other schools adopted the same system, you wouldn't have the issue with multiple calendars (which, indeed, seems to be a big problem).

Do you really think they're going to move all schools to the calendar? I don't. It will only be Title 1 or Focus schools, for the same reason they never moved forward in APS.

Extended year =/= year round. There will be plenty of summer left for a pricey camp for Larlo and Larloline.

I'm all for extended school year, the research is there and MoCo has allowed areas to become unbalanced with too many low SES students in one place. Home owners would scream bloody murder if they do the redistricting they need to do, so why not do things to serve the population that needs them?

I would much rather the county try to educate these students than to have them turn into criminals in 12 years. We're some of the "poors" that work for the federal government and live in the eastern side of the county; it's amazing when you make 100k+ and are "poor."

https://eric.ed.gov/?q=%22extended+school+year%22&id=ED580278
The extensive body of research into summer learning loss and the expanding achievement gap is a well-known issue in education. Summer learning loss has been shown to significantly contribute to the achievement gap and have a more noticeable effect on students from a low-SES household when compared with higher income peers. The effects of summer learning loss are cumulative and result in lifelong consequences for low-SES students. Research shows that students with a low-SES background are at risk of leaving fifth grade three years behind their peers in reading. This is due to the cumulitive effects of summer regression on low-SES students and no doubt leads to the achievement gap at the secondary level. This study uses "ex post facto" data from two school years to compare the effectiveness of a voluntary extended school year with two other types of voluntary summer intervention, a traditional summer school program and students that did not participate in any summer intervention. The students that participated in the extended school year attended school for an additional 33-35 days for seven hours a day. This program focused on preparing students for the next grade level in math and reading. The study looks to determine, among other things, if the extended school year had a positive effect on combatting summer regression for students with a low-SES background. The results show both practical and statistical significance for those students that participated in the voluntary extended school year. Additionally, the results of the study show that the voluntary extended school year helps to combat summer regression in low-SES students and has an immediate positive effect for those students. The article also discusses research based recommendations for an effective extended school year, the biggest challenges to offering this type of program in low-SES areas, and effective ways to combat those challenges. The article concludes by discussing the factors that may have contributed to these results. [The dissertation citations contained here are published with the permission of ProQuest LLC. Further reproduction is prohibited without permission. Copies of dissertations may be obtained by Telephone (800) 1-800-521-0600. Web page: http://www.proquest.com/en-US/products/dissertations/individuals.shtml.]

https://eric.ed.gov/?q=%22extended+school+year%22&id=ED573989
This Special Report is a summary of the author's original paper, "It's About Time: Extending Learning to Narrow the Achievement Gap." The family income of students is a consistent predictor of academic achievement across the United States, where an achievement gap between the most and least affluent students has long persisted and shows no sign of narrowing. The current body of research is insufficient to draw conclusions about whether extending learning time is effective in closing the academic achievement gap between lower-income and more affluent students. Studies, however, do find that strategies ranging from extended school years to summer learning opportunities show promise as a means for improving the academic achievement of the lower-income students exposed to them. Although program design varies widely between and within the types of extended learning programs, recent research identifies several characteristics of those that have been shown to be effective. This report discusses these characteristics, the effectiveness of the programs, student implications, how allocated time relates to academic improvement, and other issues related to extended learning programs.

Anonymous wrote:MCPS has Saturday school for all kids.

It is not free. Even if you are on FARMS.

Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure why people are attacking the poster who paid $1 million + for her home. If anyone has it they will spend the money to do what’s best for their children. DH and I inherited his family home in the county and we also fortunately don’t have to worry about kids who come to school unprepared or lack English skills. For those of you attacking the previous poster, there are 24 hours in a day, stop spending your time on here attacking people and start a small business or pick up a side job. This will net you extra income to move into a more desirous neighborhood. If you can’t do that then supplement at home. Here’s what people don’t understand, the wealthy & upper middle class will ALWAYS supplement with enrichment ——-be it in private school, the W schools or any other MCPS school. Enrichment is not just a tutor, it is traveling, new learning experiences and structure.

Sure, but we don't all agree that what's best for our children is to carefully keep them away from anybody from a family that has less money.

But hey, at least the $1 million poster is paying plenty in property taxes, so that's good.