The language in Roe v. Wade is squishy enough for states to pass laws that make it virtually impossible for clinics to carryout abortions. A conservative SCOTUS would automatically uphold whatever conservative decision there is. This invariably would implicate federal funding and such.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And tell me DCUM reader -- Ms. Middle Class at 300k -- how many people do you personally hang out with who are at all affected by any of these problems? That they couldn't afford a greyhound ticket or 2 nights at Motel 6? I'm sure you have hordes of such friends, right? Or you're just soooo empathetic that you're not worried about your friends and family but the plight of the rural poor in Mississippi who will be so affected by this?

Really, why do you hate women? I mean, you write like a woman, so I suspect you are one, but why are you so full of rage? I’m an upper middle class woman in the blue Midwest whose husband - and only sex partner - has a vasectomy (after four boys, we’re done!). We have okay insurance and the money to bridge the gap to the deductible. But I’m aware that not all women have that. So yes I feel empathy for the women who have to find child care, take off multiple days at a crap job where they fit really get the days off, have to travel across the state and spend a night or three a hotel for the idiotic “waiting period.” Why are you so busted that you have no empathy?

Did a boyfriend force you to abort? Did your parents force you to give up your baby for adoption? Because you are really angry and taking it out on people who are just having empathy for those with a tougher go. There must be a reason.

Nope. But I knew not to open my legs until I could 100% take care of a baby if a boyfriend walked away the next day. If people don't have any sense of responsibility, I can only feel so bad for their situation.

What if a loser of a boyfriend forced himself on you?

If it’s not consensual go to the cops and the hospital and get an abortion that way. Pretty sure that option isn’t going away.

Cops don’t determine whether someone was raped or not - juries do. So you would have to wait until your rapist’s jury trial is concluded, or for him to plead guilty, before you will be able to get an abortion. How old will your rapist’s baby be by then?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Roe isn't going anywhere. The sky is not falling.

Conservatives are pragmatists. They don't like abortion, so they tend not to have them. They also recognize the tremendous value in keeping the numbers of liberals in check that abortion provides. Margaret Sanger knew what she was doing when she founded PP.

are you nuts. your base is evangelical mysonginist. they would LOVE to overturn Roe. Or just make it impossible to get an abortion in most states. Sorry, I know several very conservative women who have had abortions, all pro-life. The hypocrisy of conservatives is well known.

Are you unable to fathom that perhaps they consider the abortion to be the gravest mistake of their lives, and they want to prevent other women from suffering as they have?

Exactly. It's about controlling women. Every anti-choice argument comes down to this. Jesus I get tired of this academic argument. I'm a physician and let me tell you bad outcomes do not discriminate. Nor do unexpected events, complications, or life complexities. You know what levels the playing field? Bleeding, death, infection. Chromosomal abnormalities. Spouses whose drinking has been on the fringe for years and just lately got out of control. Job loss. Older parents getting ill and having to move in. SO many reasons life changes and you/your family can or cannot care for another baby. Everyone is different. Every situation. We treat people on a case by case basis all the time for heart attacks, hypertension, trauma, COPD, etc etc. Pregnancy is not different folks. It's just a health care issue that lives squarely in a veiled emotional argument that people think won't effect them, until it does. Then the rules don't apply.

+10000

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Roe isn't going anywhere. The sky is not falling.

Conservatives are pragmatists. They don't like abortion, so they tend not to have them. They also recognize the tremendous value in keeping the numbers of liberals in check that abortion provides. Margaret Sanger knew what she was doing when she founded PP.

are you nuts. your base is evangelical mysonginist. they would LOVE to overturn Roe. Or just make it impossible to get an abortion in most states. Sorry, I know several very conservative women who have had abortions, all pro-life. The hypocrisy of conservatives is well known.

Are you unable to fathom that perhaps they consider the abortion to be the gravest mistake of their lives, and they want to prevent other women from suffering as they have?

I can fathom that. But it's not what most women say.

For women who have first trimester abortions, which are most of them, using the morning after pill or other methods, the estimate is that 35% of women have one. I don't have the breakdown of conservative or non-conservative on that, though.

My sister had an abortion in college and to this day (two kids later) says it was the best decision she ever made.

Given that, I suppose she should be fighting to force all women in college who become pregnant to abort, right?

Anonymous wrote:Aren't miscarriages considered abortions? My wife had 2 d&cs when the fetus failed to form and were shocked to see them discussed by staff as abortions. I'm assuming any change in law would add a law enforcement interrogation to the procedure if the procedure is even available? I don't think an abortion ban will be as popular as some people think

When taking a medical history we refer to any non-surviving pregnancy as an "Ab", or abortion. Unless it's medically relevant we don't discuss whether not not it was a termination of pregnancy or an unintended loss. So it's just semantics. The emotional dialogue re: abortion vs miscarriage is a semantic argument used by (usually) male politicians who often have no understanding of the physiology of pregnancy. See how this works? To most health care providers there aren't good guys and bad guys (or girls). It's about healthcare. That's why this whole "just take a bus to a blue state" nonsense makes me want to rip my hair out. I see 20 patients a week with knee pain from overdoing it on the elliptical and they're incensed when I can't get them an emergency MRI that day. But folks want women to travel across the state for a time-sensitive procedure usually requiring an overnight stay. I'd laugh if I wasn't already screaming.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Roe isn't going anywhere. The sky is not falling.

Conservatives are pragmatists. They don't like abortion, so they tend not to have them. They also recognize the tremendous value in keeping the numbers of liberals in check that abortion provides. Margaret Sanger knew what she was doing when she founded PP.

are you nuts. your base is evangelical mysonginist. they would LOVE to overturn Roe. Or just make it impossible to get an abortion in most states. Sorry, I know several very conservative women who have had abortions, all pro-life. The hypocrisy of conservatives is well known.

Are you unable to fathom that perhaps they consider the abortion to be the gravest mistake of their lives, and they want to prevent other women from suffering as they have?

Oh give me strength. That is the most disingenuous argument I've heard yet.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Roe isn't going anywhere. The sky is not falling.

Conservatives are pragmatists. They don't like abortion, so they tend not to have them. They also recognize the tremendous value in keeping the numbers of liberals in check that abortion provides. Margaret Sanger knew what she was doing when she founded PP.

are you nuts. your base is evangelical mysonginist. they would LOVE to overturn Roe. Or just make it impossible to get an abortion in most states. Sorry, I know several very conservative women who have had abortions, all pro-life. The hypocrisy of conservatives is well known.

Are you unable to fathom that perhaps they consider the abortion to be the gravest mistake of their lives, and they want to prevent other women from suffering as they have?

Exactly. It's about controlling women. Every anti-choice argument comes down to this. Jesus I get tired of this academic argument. I'm a physician and let me tell you bad outcomes do not discriminate. Nor do unexpected events, complications, or life complexities. You know what levels the playing field? Bleeding, death, infection. Chromosomal abnormalities. Spouses whose drinking has been on the fringe for years and just lately got out of control. Job loss. Older parents getting ill and having to move in. SO many reasons life changes and you/your family can or cannot care for another baby. Everyone is different. Every situation. We treat people on a case by case basis all the time for heart attacks, hypertension, trauma, COPD, etc etc. Pregnancy is not different folks. It's just a health care issue that lives squarely in a veiled emotional argument that people think won't effect them, until it does. Then the rules don't apply.

YES. Try explaining this to my staunchly pro-life friend who had to "induce a pregnancy" at 20 weeks because the fetus wasn't viable. I feel compassion for her and know it must not have been an easy decision, but she clearly thinks this is COMPLETELY different from other women seeking abortions. She protests and donates to make sure that other women will not have the same options she did. She is in favor of a full ban on abortion, including in cases of rape and incest. This is much more typical of my experiences with the pro-life crowd, not even the paternalistic folks who want to "save" everyone else from making the same "mistake" they did.

Wow, does she really not get that she would not have had that option if abortion is banned? I used to consider myself pro-life many years ago though I was ambivalent about it, but nowadays I'm in the "safe, legal and rare" camp. I don't know how your friend gets around the cognitive dissonance required for what she did.

No. She thinks the rules wouldn't apply to her, in that particular situation. She refers to her abortion as a "stillbirth" and had an elaborate funeral. That's how she justifies it.

As to where the cognitive dissonance comes from, she comes from an extremely religious Catholic family. When we were 12, her mother had been showing her and her sisters images of aborted fetuses for years. The bathroom in their house had a poem on the wall about "good girls" and chastity. She said that if it came between carrying a pregnancy to term and dying or having an abortion, she would choose her own death. I guess it's not such a black and white decision when she has 4 other kids and a husband involved.

I am also of the safe, legal and rare mind. I cannot wrap my head around her mentality at all. We were childhood friends and we don't have much in common anymore. It's not like we discuss abortion when we see each other, but her no exceptions, black-and-white thought process is too tedious to deal with.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Roe isn't going anywhere. The sky is not falling.

Conservatives are pragmatists. They don't like abortion, so they tend not to have them. They also recognize the tremendous value in keeping the numbers of liberals in check that abortion provides. Margaret Sanger knew what she was doing when she founded PP.

are you nuts. your base is evangelical mysonginist. they would LOVE to overturn Roe. Or just make it impossible to get an abortion in most states. Sorry, I know several very conservative women who have had abortions, all pro-life. The hypocrisy of conservatives is well known.

Are you unable to fathom that perhaps they consider the abortion to be the gravest mistake of their lives, and they want to prevent other women from suffering as they have?

Exactly. It's about controlling women. Every anti-choice argument comes down to this. Jesus I get tired of this academic argument. I'm a physician and let me tell you bad outcomes do not discriminate. Nor do unexpected events, complications, or life complexities. You know what levels the playing field? Bleeding, death, infection. Chromosomal abnormalities. Spouses whose drinking has been on the fringe for years and just lately got out of control. Job loss. Older parents getting ill and having to move in. SO many reasons life changes and you/your family can or cannot care for another baby. Everyone is different. Every situation. We treat people on a case by case basis all the time for heart attacks, hypertension, trauma, COPD, etc etc. Pregnancy is not different folks. It's just a health care issue that lives squarely in a veiled emotional argument that people think won't effect them, until it does. Then the rules don't apply.

YES. Try explaining this to my staunchly pro-life friend who had to "induce a pregnancy" at 20 weeks because the fetus wasn't viable. I feel compassion for her and know it must not have been an easy decision, but she clearly thinks this is COMPLETELY different from other women seeking abortions. She protests and donates to make sure that other women will not have the same options she did. She is in favor of a full ban on abortion, including in cases of rape and incest. This is much more typical of my experiences with the pro-life crowd, not even the paternalistic folks who want to "save" everyone else from making the same "mistake" they did.

Wow, does she really not get that she would not have had that option if abortion is banned? I used to consider myself pro-life many years ago though I was ambivalent about it, but nowadays I'm in the "safe, legal and rare" camp. I don't know how your friend gets around the cognitive dissonance required for what she did.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Roe isn't going anywhere. The sky is not falling.

Conservatives are pragmatists. They don't like abortion, so they tend not to have them. They also recognize the tremendous value in keeping the numbers of liberals in check that abortion provides. Margaret Sanger knew what she was doing when she founded PP.

are you nuts. your base is evangelical mysonginist. they would LOVE to overturn Roe. Or just make it impossible to get an abortion in most states. Sorry, I know several very conservative women who have had abortions, all pro-life. The hypocrisy of conservatives is well known.

Are you unable to fathom that perhaps they consider the abortion to be the gravest mistake of their lives, and they want to prevent other women from suffering as they have?

Exactly. It's about controlling women. Every anti-choice argument comes down to this. Jesus I get tired of this academic argument. I'm a physician and let me tell you bad outcomes do not discriminate. Nor do unexpected events, complications, or life complexities. You know what levels the playing field? Bleeding, death, infection. Chromosomal abnormalities. Spouses whose drinking has been on the fringe for years and just lately got out of control. Job loss. Older parents getting ill and having to move in. SO many reasons life changes and you/your family can or cannot care for another baby. Everyone is different. Every situation. We treat people on a case by case basis all the time for heart attacks, hypertension, trauma, COPD, etc etc. Pregnancy is not different folks. It's just a health care issue that lives squarely in a veiled emotional argument that people think won't effect them, until it does. Then the rules don't apply.

YES. Try explaining this to my staunchly pro-life friend who had to "induce a pregnancy" at 20 weeks because the fetus wasn't viable. I feel compassion for her and know it must not have been an easy decision, but she clearly thinks this is COMPLETELY different from other women seeking abortions. She protests and donates to make sure that other women will not have the same options she did. She is in favor of a full ban on abortion, including in cases of rape and incest. This is much more typical of my experiences with the pro-life crowd, not even the paternalistic folks who want to "save" everyone else from making the same "mistake" they did.

Aren't miscarriages considered abortions? My wife had 2 d&cs when the fetus failed to form and were shocked to see them discussed by staff as abortions. I'm assuming any change in law would add a law enforcement interrogation to the procedure if the procedure is even available? I don't think an abortion ban will be as popular as some people think

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Roe isn't going anywhere. The sky is not falling.

Conservatives are pragmatists. They don't like abortion, so they tend not to have them. They also recognize the tremendous value in keeping the numbers of liberals in check that abortion provides. Margaret Sanger knew what she was doing when she founded PP.

are you nuts. your base is evangelical mysonginist. they would LOVE to overturn Roe. Or just make it impossible to get an abortion in most states. Sorry, I know several very conservative women who have had abortions, all pro-life. The hypocrisy of conservatives is well known.

Are you unable to fathom that perhaps they consider the abortion to be the gravest mistake of their lives, and they want to prevent other women from suffering as they have?

Exactly. It's about controlling women. Every anti-choice argument comes down to this. Jesus I get tired of this academic argument. I'm a physician and let me tell you bad outcomes do not discriminate. Nor do unexpected events, complications, or life complexities. You know what levels the playing field? Bleeding, death, infection. Chromosomal abnormalities. Spouses whose drinking has been on the fringe for years and just lately got out of control. Job loss. Older parents getting ill and having to move in. SO many reasons life changes and you/your family can or cannot care for another baby. Everyone is different. Every situation. We treat people on a case by case basis all the time for heart attacks, hypertension, trauma, COPD, etc etc. Pregnancy is not different folks. It's just a health care issue that lives squarely in a veiled emotional argument that people think won't effect them, until it does. Then the rules don't apply.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Roe isn't going anywhere. The sky is not falling.

Conservatives are pragmatists. They don't like abortion, so they tend not to have them. They also recognize the tremendous value in keeping the numbers of liberals in check that abortion provides. Margaret Sanger knew what she was doing when she founded PP.

are you nuts. your base is evangelical mysonginist. they would LOVE to overturn Roe. Or just make it impossible to get an abortion in most states. Sorry, I know several very conservative women who have had abortions, all pro-life. The hypocrisy of conservatives is well known.

Are you unable to fathom that perhaps they consider the abortion to be the gravest mistake of their lives, and they want to prevent other women from suffering as they have?

Wow that just drips with condescension. Who says they get to "prevent" others from their own health care decisions?

I have a handful of friends who have had abortions and not a single one of them regrets it but feel grateful that they had access to a legal and safe procedure.

If one of my friends had not been allowed to terminate a doomed pregnancy at 16 weeks her 5 year old twins would never have been conceived. You would trade the lives of those kids in order to have forced my friend to give birth to a child who would have died almost immediately upon birth at 40 weeks?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be a war on women! Women should have the right to decide their own lives and what goes on with their own bodies. When women have control of reproduction, they are better educated and have better financial freedom. Having a baby in high school is a bullet train to poverty.

You know how one can prevent that? Not letting a guy put it in when you're in high school. I'm not for abstinence only and I do think there are medical/criminal reasons for abortion, but let's be honest if any particular high school girl is soooo worried for her future bc she fears a condom will break and she wouldn't be able to get an abortion -- would it be the end of the world to not start sleeping with people until after high school??

It’s been a while but I seem to remember that high school boys might play a role here too...

Really? If they're putting it in without consent -- as I say above there's criminal reasons for an abortion then. But if a girl is letting them put it in knowing a pregnancy could result if no protection is used and/or if protection fails, the boy is burdened how exactly? Is he carrying the pregnancy and breastfeeding the kid? And I say this as a parent of daughters -- we all know girls carry the burden here, no matter how charming/convincing a boy may be.

And will continue to carry the burden as long as people like you place responsibility for birth control AND child rearing on the woman.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Roe isn't going anywhere. The sky is not falling.

Conservatives are pragmatists. They don't like abortion, so they tend not to have them. They also recognize the tremendous value in keeping the numbers of liberals in check that abortion provides. Margaret Sanger knew what she was doing when she founded PP.

are you nuts. your base is evangelical mysonginist. they would LOVE to overturn Roe. Or just make it impossible to get an abortion in most states. Sorry, I know several very conservative women who have had abortions, all pro-life. The hypocrisy of conservatives is well known.

Are you unable to fathom that perhaps they consider the abortion to be the gravest mistake of their lives, and they want to prevent other women from suffering as they have?

I can fathom that. But it's not what most women say.

For women who have first trimester abortions, which are most of them, using the morning after pill or other methods, the estimate is that 35% of women have one. I don't have the breakdown of conservative or non-conservative on that, though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Roe isn't going anywhere. The sky is not falling.

Conservatives are pragmatists. They don't like abortion, so they tend not to have them. They also recognize the tremendous value in keeping the numbers of liberals in check that abortion provides. Margaret Sanger knew what she was doing when she founded PP.

True, they just pay off their mistresses and girlfriends to have them.

Most of my conservative friends top desire is to make abortion illegal. What they do t realize it is the law will eventually affect their daughters who are dealing with difficult pregnancies or miscarriages, but won't affect rich Republicans who will fly their mistresses and daughters to places with abortion.

They also live in areas with lots of poor people who will no longer be able to have abortions if their state goes in that direction. Resulting in lots more welfare it lots more crime. Guess they will get their wish!

How can a (hopeful) ban on abortion affect women who are having miscarriages?

Because doctors will refuse to to treat them and they'll bleed to death. Or the police will be called, they will be blamed for the miscarriage, and they will be jailed.

Google around to see how it works in other countries that have banned abortion. Stop being so clueless.