Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there seriously people here making 200k+ and bitching about not getting need based aid? Do you even listen to yourselves?

I have been trying to say this, but in a kinder way. It's a sensitive issue. I agree with your point but your method is questionable and won't convince anyone. It's hard when you realize you haven't planned properly to give your kid something they really want. It's painful. A little sympathy and understanding is called for.

Are you reading what people are writing?

People are planning and saving. And it is still inaccessible.

Tell you what, let's trade paychecks. I'll still live on $40k and have $160k to send my kid to school. You can get a Pell grant. Win/Win

You are missing the point.

I acknowledge that I am affluent with a HHI of $200K. That is not in dispute.

What is in dispute is the proposition that I can access education at an elite school for my kid, so long as I can handle that it will be "decidedly unpleasant" for my family. Which is simply not the case. It is not a matter of "decidedly unpleasant"; it is a matter of impossible.

I would be very happy to pay say, $40K for that education and for you to pay nothing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there seriously people here making 200k+ and bitching about not getting need based aid? Do you even listen to yourselves?

I have been trying to say this, but in a kinder way. It's a sensitive issue. I agree with your point but your method is questionable and won't convince anyone. It's hard when you realize you haven't planned properly to give your kid something they really want. It's painful. A little sympathy and understanding is called for.

Are you reading what people are writing?

People are planning and saving. And it is still inaccessible.

So, send your kid to a good state school. Really how is that even close to a bad thing?

Agreed, that is what people are doing (and that is why the flagship schools are increasingly difficult to get into), but that's not the point of this thread.

Read the OP - the assertion is that elite schools are accessible to all. They are not.

They aren't and never have been accessible to everyone, hence the 'elite'. The whole thing has devolved into a bunch of rich people whining that they are expected to pay for their kids to attend college.

From a financial POV, actually, they used to be accessible to everyone.

These are the facts about the cost of college, including at elite schools, relative to median HHI:

https://college-education.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=005532

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/29/how-much-college-tuition-has-increased-from-1988-to-2018.html

It used to be that a student could work his way through college relatively easily, and that a student at an elite school could pay for a significant portion of the cost. This is no longer the case.

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/04/the-myth-of-working-your-way-through-college/359735/

Facts.

Nope, college in general used to be less expensive, no one disputes that, but there has never been a time when "everyone" could afford to go to whichever college they wanted to attend. You are just upset that you aren't quite as privileged as you thought you would be.

It was certainly a lot easier in the past so why are you seemingly justifying that it's no longer so easy? No one, rich or poor or middle class, has benefited from the astronomical rise in college tuition. So instead of complaints about privilege (a major red herring that says more about you than the reality), can't we just talk about the real issue, which is why colleges are so damn expensive now? And what do we get in exchange? {/B]

+1

You get a certification in exchange for your tuition. That is what you are paying for. Knowledge is pretty much free these days. [b]The certification allows you to earn higher wages in most cases, thus the expense. They charge what they feel the market will bear.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there seriously people here making 200k+ and bitching about not getting need based aid? Do you even listen to yourselves?

I have been trying to say this, but in a kinder way. It's a sensitive issue. I agree with your point but your method is questionable and won't convince anyone. It's hard when you realize you haven't planned properly to give your kid something they really want. It's painful. A little sympathy and understanding is called for.

Are you reading what people are writing?

People are planning and saving. And it is still inaccessible.

So, send your kid to a good state school. Really how is that even close to a bad thing?

Agreed, that is what people are doing (and that is why the flagship schools are increasingly difficult to get into), but that's not the point of this thread.

Read the OP - the assertion is that elite schools are accessible to all. They are not.

They aren't and never have been accessible to everyone, hence the 'elite'. The whole thing has devolved into a bunch of rich people whining that they are expected to pay for their kids to attend college.

From a financial POV, actually, they used to be accessible to everyone.

These are the facts about the cost of college, including at elite schools, relative to median HHI:

https://college-education.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=005532

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/29/how-much-college-tuition-has-increased-from-1988-to-2018.html

It used to be that a student could work his way through college relatively easily, and that a student at an elite school could pay for a significant portion of the cost. This is no longer the case.

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/04/the-myth-of-working-your-way-through-college/359735/

Facts.

Nope, college in general used to be less expensive, no one disputes that, but there has never been a time when "everyone" could afford to go to whichever college they wanted to attend. You are just upset that you aren't quite as privileged as you thought you would be.

It was certainly a lot easier in the past so why are you seemingly justifying that it's no longer so easy? No one, rich or poor or middle class, has benefited from the astronomical rise in college tuition. So instead of complaints about privilege (a major red herring that says more about you than the reality), can't we just talk about the real issue, which is why colleges are so damn expensive now? And what do we get in exchange? {/B]

+1

[b]You get a certification in exchange for your tuition. That is what you are paying for. Knowledge is pretty much free these days. The certification allows you to earn higher wages in most cases, thus the expense. They charge what they feel the market will bear.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there seriously people here making 200k+ and bitching about not getting need based aid? Do you even listen to yourselves?

I have been trying to say this, but in a kinder way. It's a sensitive issue. I agree with your point but your method is questionable and won't convince anyone. It's hard when you realize you haven't planned properly to give your kid something they really want. It's painful. A little sympathy and understanding is called for.

Are you reading what people are writing?

People are planning and saving. And it is still inaccessible.

So, send your kid to a good state school. Really how is that even close to a bad thing?

Agreed, that is what people are doing (and that is why the flagship schools are increasingly difficult to get into), but that's not the point of this thread.

Read the OP - the assertion is that elite schools are accessible to all. They are not.

They aren't and never have been accessible to everyone, hence the 'elite'. The whole thing has devolved into a bunch of rich people whining that they are expected to pay for their kids to attend college.

From a financial POV, actually, they used to be accessible to everyone.

These are the facts about the cost of college, including at elite schools, relative to median HHI:

https://college-education.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=005532

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/29/how-much-college-tuition-has-increased-from-1988-to-2018.html

It used to be that a student could work his way through college relatively easily, and that a student at an elite school could pay for a significant portion of the cost. This is no longer the case.

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/04/the-myth-of-working-your-way-through-college/359735/

Facts.

Nope, college in general used to be less expensive, no one disputes that, but there has never been a time when "everyone" could afford to go to whichever college they wanted to attend. You are just upset that you aren't quite as privileged as you thought you would be.

It was certainly a lot easier in the past so why are you seemingly justifying that it's no longer so easy? No one, rich or poor or middle class, has benefited from the astronomical rise in college tuition. So instead of complaints about privilege (a major red herring that says more about you than the reality), can't we just talk about the real issue, [B]which is why colleges are so damn expensive now? And what do we get in exchange? {/B]

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there seriously people here making 200k+ and bitching about not getting need based aid? Do you even listen to yourselves?

I have been trying to say this, but in a kinder way. It's a sensitive issue. I agree with your point but your method is questionable and won't convince anyone. It's hard when you realize you haven't planned properly to give your kid something they really want. It's painful. A little sympathy and understanding is called for.

Are you reading what people are writing?

People are planning and saving. And it is still inaccessible.

So, send your kid to a good state school. Really how is that even close to a bad thing?

Agreed, that is what people are doing (and that is why the flagship schools are increasingly difficult to get into), but that's not the point of this thread.

Read the OP - the assertion is that elite schools are accessible to all. They are not.

They aren't and never have been accessible to everyone, hence the 'elite'. The whole thing has devolved into a bunch of rich people whining that they are expected to pay for their kids to attend college.

From a financial POV, actually, they used to be accessible to everyone.

These are the facts about the cost of college, including at elite schools, relative to median HHI:

https://college-education.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=005532

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/29/how-much-college-tuition-has-increased-from-1988-to-2018.html

It used to be that a student could work his way through college relatively easily, and that a student at an elite school could pay for a significant portion of the cost. This is no longer the case.

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/04/the-myth-of-working-your-way-through-college/359735/

Facts.

Nope, college in general used to be less expensive, no one disputes that, but there has never been a time when "everyone" could afford to go to whichever college they wanted to attend. You are just upset that you aren't quite as privileged as you thought you would be.

It was certainly a lot easier in the past so why are you seemingly justifying that it's no longer so easy? No one, rich or poor or middle class, has benefited from the astronomical rise in college tuition. So instead of complaints about privilege (a major red herring that says more about you than the reality), can't we just talk about the real issue, which is why colleges are so damn expensive now? And what do we get in exchange?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there seriously people here making 200k+ and bitching about not getting need based aid? Do you even listen to yourselves?

I have been trying to say this, but in a kinder way. It's a sensitive issue. I agree with your point but your method is questionable and won't convince anyone. It's hard when you realize you haven't planned properly to give your kid something they really want. It's painful. A little sympathy and understanding is called for.

Are you reading what people are writing?

People are planning and saving. And it is still inaccessible.

So, send your kid to a good state school. Really how is that even close to a bad thing?

Agreed, that is what people are doing (and that is why the flagship schools are increasingly difficult to get into), but that's not the point of this thread.

Read the OP - the assertion is that elite schools are accessible to all. They are not.

They aren't and never have been accessible to everyone, hence the 'elite'. The whole thing has devolved into a bunch of rich people whining that they are expected to pay for their kids to attend college.

From a financial POV, actually, they used to be accessible to everyone.

These are the facts about the cost of college, including at elite schools, relative to median HHI:

https://college-education.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=005532

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/29/how-much-college-tuition-has-increased-from-1988-to-2018.html

It used to be that a student could work his way through college relatively easily, and that a student at an elite school could pay for a significant portion of the cost. This is no longer the case.

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/04/the-myth-of-working-your-way-through-college/359735/

Facts.

Nope, college in general used to be less expensive, no one disputes that, but there has never been a time when "everyone" could afford to go to whichever college they wanted to attend. You are just upset that you aren't quite as privileged as you thought you would be.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there seriously people here making 200k+ and bitching about not getting need based aid? Do you even listen to yourselves?

I have been trying to say this, but in a kinder way. It's a sensitive issue. I agree with your point but your method is questionable and won't convince anyone. It's hard when you realize you haven't planned properly to give your kid something they really want. It's painful. A little sympathy and understanding is called for.

Are you reading what people are writing?

People are planning and saving. And it is still inaccessible.

So, send your kid to a good state school. Really how is that even close to a bad thing?

Agreed, that is what people are doing (and that is why the flagship schools are increasingly difficult to get into), but that's not the point of this thread.

Read the OP - the assertion is that elite schools are accessible to all. They are not.

They aren't and never have been accessible to everyone, hence the 'elite'. The whole thing has devolved into a bunch of rich people whining that they are expected to pay for their kids to attend college.

From a financial POV, actually, they used to be accessible to everyone.

These are the facts about the cost of college, including at elite schools, relative to median HHI:

https://college-education.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=005532

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/29/how-much-college-tuition-has-increased-from-1988-to-2018.html

It used to be that a student could work his way through college relatively easily, and that a student at an elite school could pay for a significant portion of the cost. This is no longer the case.

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/04/the-myth-of-working-your-way-through-college/359735/

Facts.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there seriously people here making 200k+ and bitching about not getting need based aid? Do you even listen to yourselves?

I have been trying to say this, but in a kinder way. It's a sensitive issue. I agree with your point but your method is questionable and won't convince anyone. It's hard when you realize you haven't planned properly to give your kid something they really want. It's painful. A little sympathy and understanding is called for.

Are you reading what people are writing?

People are planning and saving. And it is still inaccessible.

Tell you what, let's trade paychecks. I'll still live on $40k and have $160k to send my kid to school. You can get a Pell grant. Win/Win

You are missing the point.

I acknowledge that I am affluent with a HHI of $200K. That is not in dispute.

What is in dispute is the proposition that I can access education at an elite school for my kid, so long as I can handle that it will be "decidedly unpleasant" for my family. Which is simply not the case. It is not a matter of "decidedly unpleasant"; it is a matter of impossible.

I would be very happy to pay say, $40K for that education and for you to pay nothing.

Or you could decide to live with less and pay what the school is asking. It isn't impossible, you just don't think it is worth it. I don't either.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there seriously people here making 200k+ and bitching about not getting need based aid? Do you even listen to yourselves?

I have been trying to say this, but in a kinder way. It's a sensitive issue. I agree with your point but your method is questionable and won't convince anyone. It's hard when you realize you haven't planned properly to give your kid something they really want. It's painful. A little sympathy and understanding is called for.

Are you reading what people are writing?

People are planning and saving. And it is still inaccessible.

So, send your kid to a good state school. Really how is that even close to a bad thing?

Agreed, that is what people are doing (and that is why the flagship schools are increasingly difficult to get into), but that's not the point of this thread.

Read the OP - the assertion is that elite schools are accessible to all. They are not.

They aren't and never have been accessible to everyone, hence the 'elite'. The whole thing has devolved into a bunch of rich people whining that they are expected to pay for their kids to attend college.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The issue for me isn't whether one can pay for an elite private college out of a 200 or 300k income, but whether the college is actually worth the investment.

The second issue is why the college tuitions have so rapidly escalated far beyond inflation rates for the same time period. There is something seriously wrong with the financial model of higher education in today's world that that I resent spending a fortune into a system that is effectively broken.

I went to Ivy schools, undergrad and grad. I had an elite education. It was a great experience. But I'm not sure if it was that much better of an experience than, say, in-state at UVA or a good flagship, or at a private LAC or "lesser" college with a big merit package. Because I'm 20 years out I can look around my fellow graduates and see where they are in life, and compare it to my other friends and coworkers. Believe me when I say plenty of Ivy grads go on to have humble lives. And plenty of state school grads go on to have very successful lives.

Yes, college isn't all about the money. In theory. But we're now in a world when it actually is increasingly about the money, the shockingly high tuition for both undergrad and graduate schools. When you spend that 70+ a year for your kid, it's a gamble that it will pay off over going to UVA or College Park. Statistically speaking, odds are that your child will end up in a similar position in life regardless of whether he/she went to Penn or UVA. This is shown over and over again by multiple studies. The kids who do benefit from a fancy Ivy are mainly two distinct groups: the underrepresented minorities/poor students from disadvantaged backgrounds, and a small coterie of students who get recruited by premier banking/consulting firms. But if you're not one of the two, it really is not a long term advantage to go to a fancy private college over a solid cheaper alternative.

So why not take the cheaper route, take the 30-40k differential (per year) and pump that into a long term savings account for the kid to help out with a down on his/her first property, or even to start to build up a retirement fund. That will be far, far, far more valuable in the long run than a degree from Penn over UVA.

So the problem to me, with this, as an issue for our country, not for individual students is this: We used to have a diverse set of higher education schools that provided a wide variety of different kinds of higher education. I think this was one of the great strengths of the US higher education system. Now, we are all being forced to large, homogenous schools. The schools are good schools, but bland. It is the big box theory of education. Yes, you can get all you really need at Walmart, but is this really best for our nation? To standardize?

In the old days, the quirky, diverse (and even horrors! religion-affiliated) schools were cheaper. For some reason, their expensive has grown much faster than inflation. I don't think this is good. Sure, the elite can still get this diverse education. But the average upper middle class kid just can not.

Anonymous wrote:The issue for me isn't whether one can pay for an elite private college out of a 200 or 300k income, but whether the college is actually worth the investment.

The second issue is why the college tuitions have so rapidly escalated far beyond inflation rates for the same time period. There is something seriously wrong with the financial model of higher education in today's world that that I resent spending a fortune into a system that is effectively broken.

I went to Ivy schools, undergrad and grad. I had an elite education. It was a great experience. But I'm not sure if it was that much better of an experience than, say, in-state at UVA or a good flagship, or at a private LAC or "lesser" college with a big merit package. Because I'm 20 years out I can look around my fellow graduates and see where they are in life, and compare it to my other friends and coworkers. Believe me when I say plenty of Ivy grads go on to have humble lives. And plenty of state school grads go on to have very successful lives.

Yes, college isn't all about the money. In theory. But we're now in a world when it actually is increasingly about the money, the shockingly high tuition for both undergrad and graduate schools. When you spend that 70+ a year for your kid, it's a gamble that it will pay off over going to UVA or College Park. Statistically speaking, odds are that your child will end up in a similar position in life regardless of whether he/she went to Penn or UVA. This is shown over and over again by multiple studies. The kids who do benefit from a fancy Ivy are mainly two distinct groups: the underrepresented minorities/poor students from disadvantaged backgrounds, and a small coterie of students who get recruited by premier banking/consulting firms. But if you're not one of the two, it really is not a long term advantage to go to a fancy private college over a solid cheaper alternative.

So why not take the cheaper route, take the 30-40k differential (per year) and pump that into a long term savings account for the kid to help out with a down on his/her first property, or even to start to build up a retirement fund. That will be far, far, far more valuable in the long run than a degree from Penn over UVA.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there seriously people here making 200k+ and bitching about not getting need based aid? Do you even listen to yourselves?

I have been trying to say this, but in a kinder way. It's a sensitive issue. I agree with your point but your method is questionable and won't convince anyone. It's hard when you realize you haven't planned properly to give your kid something they really want. It's painful. A little sympathy and understanding is called for.

Are you reading what people are writing?

People are planning and saving. And it is still inaccessible.

Tell you what, let's trade paychecks. I'll still live on $40k and have $160k to send my kid to school. You can get a Pell grant. Win/Win

You are missing the point.

I acknowledge that I am affluent with a HHI of $200K. That is not in dispute.

What is in dispute is the proposition that I can access education at an elite school for my kid, so long as I can handle that it will be "decidedly unpleasant" for my family. Which is simply not the case. It is not a matter of "decidedly unpleasant"; it is a matter of impossible.

I would be very happy to pay say, $40K for that education and for you to pay nothing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there seriously people here making 200k+ and bitching about not getting need based aid? Do you even listen to yourselves?

I have been trying to say this, but in a kinder way. It's a sensitive issue. I agree with your point but your method is questionable and won't convince anyone. It's hard when you realize you haven't planned properly to give your kid something they really want. It's painful. A little sympathy and understanding is called for.

Are you reading what people are writing?

People are planning and saving. And it is still inaccessible.

So, send your kid to a good state school. Really how is that even close to a bad thing?

Agreed, that is what people are doing (and that is why the flagship schools are increasingly difficult to get into), but that's not the point of this thread.

Read the OP - the assertion is that elite schools are accessible to all. They are not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^ Interesting fact. Only .4 percent (four tenths of one percent) of college students attend an Ivy

source: https://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/the-college-solution/2011/09/06/20-surprising-higher-education-facts

Sure, the Ivies, Stanford, and MIT are the wealthiest and most generous with financial. But, all the better private colleges (for example, Amherst, Barnard, Bowdoin, Carleton, Claremont colleges, Colby, Conn College, Duke, Emory, Georgetown, Macalaster, Oberlin, Smith, Swarthmore, Tufts, Wash U, Wesleyan, Wiliams) offer full-need financial aid packages that don't "gap" (i.e. the aid packages meet all the demonstrated financial need) and only include federal guaranteed student loans (no private or parent loans). A family earning $130k will only pay a fraction of the cost of attendance at these schools, nowhere near the sticker price. For the best students, finances are a weighty consideration, but they will find many great college options that are affordable. The majority of students at the top schools receive very large financial aid packages.

The picture only gets really ugly when you start to look at regional private colleges. They don't have resources to provide full-need aid and many devote a significant portion of their aid to "merit" scholarships to attract students who don't need the money. These colleges have a disappearing business model as they have almost no advantages over non-flagship in-state public options.