Anonymous wrote:From Virginia DOE school profiles for systems as a whole:

APS:
Fully Accredited Schools: 100%
Reading Proficiency: 87%
Math Proficiency: 86%
Science Proficiency: 86%
Social Studies Proficiency: 88%

FCPS:
Fully Accredited Schools: 96.4%
Reading Proficiency: 84%
Math Proficiency: 83%
Science Proficiency: 85%
Social Studies Proficiency: 90%

Doesn't look like FCPS is producing superior results overall, even with TJ.

SOL pass rates by school district 2016-17
(reading, writing, history & social studies, math, science)


Div Name R W HSS M S Grand Total
West Point 92 87 94 94 96 94
Wise 89 88 94 94 89 92
Falls Church 93 95 94 89 89 91
York 91 87 91 91 90 90
Poquoson 91 89 93 86 94 90
Roanoke 86 87 92 89 89 89
Lexington 87 89 91 89 88 89
Wythe 85 85 92 88 92 88
Botetourt 86 84 92 88 89 88
Hanover 85 84 91 90 88 88
Washington 87 81 89 88 88 88
Russell 87 85 88 86 90 87
Patrick 85 75 92 88 88 87
Southampton 82 86 94 88 90 87
Scott 86 76 91 87 87 87
Virginia Beach 87 83 90 86 87 87
Prince George 87 77 92 85 87 87
Loudoun 86 89 92 85 88 87
Goochland 84 83 93 84 87 86
Dickenson 82 85 90 84 90 85
Arlington 87 84 85 85 83 85
Powhatan 84 78 92 82 89 85
Salem 84 83 90 84 86 85
Rappahannock 81 79 90 84 90 85
Pittsylvania 84 82 89 85 87 85
Bland 83 77 89 85 88 85
Appomattox 82 81 88 86 87 85
Chesterfield 84 79 87 86 85 85
Franklin 83 77 91 86 82 85
King George 82 78 85 87 86 85
Bath 85 70 87 84 85 85
Giles 81 79 92 83 88 85
Isle of Wight 85 79 87 84 85 85
Gloucester 81 73 88 87 87 85
Tazewell 81 88 87 84 89 84
Williamsburg-James City 82 82 86 86 83 84
Chesapeake 80 82 89 85 85 84
Fairfax 83 84 89 84 82 84
Rockingham 81 79 87 85 85 84
New Kent 83 79 87 82 82 83
Montgomery 83 78 85 83 84 83
Charlotte 77 81 91 83 88 83
Radford 84 75 88 82 84 83
Stafford 81 79 88 83 83 83
Grayson 83 73 85 84 78 83
King William 79 76 90 80 90 83
Louisa 77 84 90 83 86 83
Fluvanna 79 80 87 80 87 82
Bedford 82 77 87 80 83 82
Dinwiddie 81 80 87 83 77 82
Amelia 77 77 86 85 81 82
Prince William 80 79 90 81 81 82
Norton 79 72 89 82 84 82
Rockbridge 77 78 86 82 87 82
Lee 80 76 83 83 83 82
Mathews 82 81 85 77 87 82
Henrico 79 76 88 81 84 82
Colonial Heights 78 76 89 80 84 81
Smyth 80 72 85 81 84 81
Orange 79 73 90 81 81 81
Augusta 76 79 89 82 83 81
Fauquier 79 78 85 81 83 81
Pulaski 79 70 87 81 84 81
Amherst 81 77 88 80 79 81
Spotsylvania 79 79 85 83 78 81
Floyd 81 74 80 83 79 81
Madison 72 75 85 83 85 81
Henry 77 74 87 83 80 81
Richmond 81 53 81 87 80 81
Page 76 75 89 80 83 81
Nelson 73 80 86 82 84 81
Campbell 80 77 86 81 79 81
Galax 79 82 81 83 78 80
Sussex 78 79 86 80 80 80
Culpeper 74 79 84 83 79 80
Clarke 77 76 79 81 85 80
Roanoke 77 75 81 82 80 80
Carroll 81 75 75 80 82 80
Craig 77 80 78 79 85 79
Northumberland 79 71 81 79 82 79
Frederick 75 77 87 79 81 79
Greene 76 76 82 78 83 79
Suffolk 77 73 85 78 80 79
Staunton 74 78 78 80 82 78
Middlesex 79 76 88 72 81 78
Mecklenburg 74 72 83 81 77 78
Hampton 76 70 88 77 77 78
Charlottesville 76 82 84 77 76 78
Albemarle 76 78 85 75 80 78
Bristol 72 75 82 77 81 77
Colonial Beach 76 66 86 74 79 77
Nottoway 77 72 82 76 76 77
Warren 74 72 84 75 80 77
Shenandoah 71 73 82 76 82 77
Highland 84 70 80 67 83 77
Accomack 74 73 81 76 78 76
Manassas 73 73 83 75 79 76
Caroline 74 67 85 74 78 76
King and Queen 80 60 79 74 76 76
Alleghany 75 69 86 75 73 76
Manassas Park 75 74 77 77 76 76
Franklin 74 69 87 72 79 76
Buchanan 72 70 83 75 78 76
Buena Vista 75 76 81 72 77 76
Cumberland 71 67 88 73 74 75
Charles City 71 72 92 68 76 75
Hopewell 70 68 76 79 74 75
Surry 77 63 76 73 78 75
Covington 72 77 86 69 77 75
Lynchburg 71 62 84 74 74 74
Norfolk 72 70 82 72 77 74
Winchester 69 70 80 76 75 74
Alexandria 73 67 81 74 71 74
Newport News 71 67 81 74 74 74
Buckingham 65 69 81 75 78 74
Lunenburg 74 82 78 70 75 74
Harrisonburg 67 80 81 74 75 73
Portsmouth 72 68 84 72 71 73
Fredericksburg 75 67 76 71 75 73
Halifax 71 72 83 72 70 73
Northampton 72 60 79 72 77 73
Westmoreland 72 66 75 72 75 73
Waynesboro 71 71 78 72 71 72
Essex 71 64 66 73 63 69
Prince Edward 63 66 78 69 68 69
Lancaster 70 66 77 63 66 68
Brunswick 61 72 79 67 67 67
Martinsville 67 58 75 64 70 67
Greensville 58 56 82 61 68 65
Richmond 63 60 70 61 67 64
Petersburg 65 56 72 59 63 63
Danville 61 61 70 60 59 62
Grand Total 80 77 86 81 82 81

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is nothing especially “holistic” or “laid back” about relying on geographic segregation to produce classrooms where most of the minority and low-income kids are concentrated in certain schools.

Amen
Arlington has never needed GS as an excuse. The last boundary shift for high schools made that crystal clear. That was well before GS changed it’s methodology. Yorktown is richer and whiter as a result- no surprise. Now people’s choices aren’t hidden behind the score. I don’t see that as a bad thing.
“We chose the north Arlington schools because of their excellent rating”
... uh... no you didn’t, and now it’s obvious to all...

Isn't that also why parents choose to send their kids to choice schools? Or even just pick up and move to another school zone?

Yes, when it becomes evident that the county will not engage in best practices, most parents make other arrangements.
Of course now the poor decision making is starting to effect everyone.
Everyone can enjoy shifts and online learning.
Hooray

So you are choosing your schools in the same ways as all of the other parents. Got it.

Yes you do got it
You got ...
overcrowded schools
Concentrated poverty
Affluenza
Shift schedules
Online learning
Proposed Incomplete/unequal high schools

You sure do “got it”

DP. Your free association whining isn't convincing anyone. If you want to have a substantive discussion, do so.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is nothing especially “holistic” or “laid back” about relying on geographic segregation to produce classrooms where most of the minority and low-income kids are concentrated in certain schools.

Amen
Arlington has never needed GS as an excuse. The last boundary shift for high schools made that crystal clear. That was well before GS changed it’s methodology. Yorktown is richer and whiter as a result- no surprise. Now people’s choices aren’t hidden behind the score. I don’t see that as a bad thing.
“We chose the north Arlington schools because of their excellent rating”
... uh... no you didn’t, and now it’s obvious to all...

Isn't that also why parents choose to send their kids to choice schools? Or even just pick up and move to another school zone?

Yes, when it becomes evident that the county will not engage in best practices, most parents make other arrangements.
Of course now the poor decision making is starting to effect everyone.
Everyone can enjoy shifts and online learning.
Hooray

So you are choosing your schools in the same ways as all of the other parents. Got it.

Yes you do got it
You got ...
overcrowded schools
Concentrated poverty
Affluenza
Shift schedules
Online learning
Proposed Incomplete/unequal high schools

You sure do “got it”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is nothing especially “holistic” or “laid back” about relying on geographic segregation to produce classrooms where most of the minority and low-income kids are concentrated in certain schools.

Amen
Arlington has never needed GS as an excuse. The last boundary shift for high schools made that crystal clear. That was well before GS changed it’s methodology. Yorktown is richer and whiter as a result- no surprise. Now people’s choices aren’t hidden behind the score. I don’t see that as a bad thing.
“We chose the north Arlington schools because of their excellent rating”
... uh... no you didn’t, and now it’s obvious to all...

Isn't that also why parents choose to send their kids to choice schools? Or even just pick up and move to another school zone?

Yes, when it becomes evident that the county will not engage in best practices, most parents make other arrangements.
Of course now the poor decision making is starting to effect everyone.
Everyone can enjoy shifts and online learning.
Hooray

So you are choosing your schools in the same ways as all of the other parents. Got it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is nothing especially “holistic” or “laid back” about relying on geographic segregation to produce classrooms where most of the minority and low-income kids are concentrated in certain schools.

Amen
Arlington has never needed GS as an excuse. The last boundary shift for high schools made that crystal clear. That was well before GS changed it’s methodology. Yorktown is richer and whiter as a result- no surprise. Now people’s choices aren’t hidden behind the score. I don’t see that as a bad thing.
“We chose the north Arlington schools because of their excellent rating”
... uh... no you didn’t, and now it’s obvious to all...

What should have been done differently in the last high school boundary redrawing? And don't say busing, APS can't afford it.

Arlington forest

What about it?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is nothing especially “holistic” or “laid back” about relying on geographic segregation to produce classrooms where most of the minority and low-income kids are concentrated in certain schools.

Amen
Arlington has never needed GS as an excuse. The last boundary shift for high schools made that crystal clear. That was well before GS changed it’s methodology. Yorktown is richer and whiter as a result- no surprise. Now people’s choices aren’t hidden behind the score. I don’t see that as a bad thing.
“We chose the north Arlington schools because of their excellent rating”
... uh... no you didn’t, and now it’s obvious to all...

Isn't that also why parents choose to send their kids to choice schools? Or even just pick up and move to another school zone?

Yes, when it becomes evident that the county will not engage in best practices, most parents make other arrangements.
Of course now the poor decision making is starting to effect everyone.
Everyone can enjoy shifts and online learning.
Hooray

"Best practices" based on what?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is nothing especially “holistic” or “laid back” about relying on geographic segregation to produce classrooms where most of the minority and low-income kids are concentrated in certain schools.

Amen
Arlington has never needed GS as an excuse. The last boundary shift for high schools made that crystal clear. That was well before GS changed it’s methodology. Yorktown is richer and whiter as a result- no surprise. Now people’s choices aren’t hidden behind the score. I don’t see that as a bad thing.
“We chose the north Arlington schools because of their excellent rating”
... uh... no you didn’t, and now it’s obvious to all...

Isn't that also why parents choose to send their kids to choice schools? Or even just pick up and move to another school zone?

Yes, when it becomes evident that the county will not engage in best practices, most parents make other arrangements.
Of course now the poor decision making is starting to effect everyone.
Everyone can enjoy shifts and online learning.
Hooray

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is nothing especially “holistic” or “laid back” about relying on geographic segregation to produce classrooms where most of the minority and low-income kids are concentrated in certain schools.

Amen
Arlington has never needed GS as an excuse. The last boundary shift for high schools made that crystal clear. That was well before GS changed it’s methodology. Yorktown is richer and whiter as a result- no surprise. Now people’s choices aren’t hidden behind the score. I don’t see that as a bad thing.
“We chose the north Arlington schools because of their excellent rating”
... uh... no you didn’t, and now it’s obvious to all...

What should have been done differently in the last high school boundary redrawing? And don't say busing, APS can't afford it.

Arlington forest

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is nothing especially “holistic” or “laid back” about relying on geographic segregation to produce classrooms where most of the minority and low-income kids are concentrated in certain schools.

Amen
Arlington has never needed GS as an excuse. The last boundary shift for high schools made that crystal clear. That was well before GS changed it’s methodology. Yorktown is richer and whiter as a result- no surprise. Now people’s choices aren’t hidden behind the score. I don’t see that as a bad thing.
“We chose the north Arlington schools because of their excellent rating”
... uh... no you didn’t, and now it’s obvious to all...

Isn't that also why parents choose to send their kids to choice schools? Or even just pick up and move to another school zone?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is nothing especially “holistic” or “laid back” about relying on geographic segregation to produce classrooms where most of the minority and low-income kids are concentrated in certain schools.

Amen
Arlington has never needed GS as an excuse. The last boundary shift for high schools made that crystal clear. That was well before GS changed it’s methodology. Yorktown is richer and whiter as a result- no surprise. Now people’s choices aren’t hidden behind the score. I don’t see that as a bad thing.
“We chose the north Arlington schools because of their excellent rating”
... uh... no you didn’t, and now it’s obvious to all...

What should have been done differently in the last high school boundary redrawing? And don't say busing, APS can't afford it.

Anonymous wrote:There is nothing especially “holistic” or “laid back” about relying on geographic segregation to produce classrooms where most of the minority and low-income kids are concentrated in certain schools.

Amen
Arlington has never needed GS as an excuse. The last boundary shift for high schools made that crystal clear. That was well before GS changed it’s methodology. Yorktown is richer and whiter as a result- no surprise. Now people’s choices aren’t hidden behind the score. I don’t see that as a bad thing.
“We chose the north Arlington schools because of their excellent rating”
... uh... no you didn’t, and now it’s obvious to all...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fairfax has its own issues. Elementary and middle is extremely segregated between AAP and “regular”. Larger class sizes.

The dichotomy between AAP and regular can be socially devastating and humiliating to families whose kids don’t make the cut.

OP, please take posts about how "devastating" AAP is with a huge grain of salt. You're going to get a LOT of this AAP-bashing on here. The whole "dichotomy, segregation, social humiliation" line. Angry, grossly generalized, vague claims. DCUM is rife with posters who come here mostly to write posts like this for whatever reason. Families who had or have kids in AAP can tell a different story about the positives--and families with kids in general ed at AAP center schools do not all resent AAP, no matter what some posters will claim. Every AAP center school is different and there surely are some with "us versus them" parents, but that doesn't mean Every. Single. Center. is a segregated nightmare of haves and have nots. That wasn't our experience or the experience of the many families we knew through six years of AAP.

Make your choice based on the overall pyramid. Don't rely much on DCUM other than as general guidelines and treat intensely negative posts like you'd treat extreme outlier reviews on a travel web site--set aside the extreme ones. Put in a lot of time in the actual areas you'd consider. I know parents who moved and who attended a PTA meeting or two at schools they were considering. Any way you can meet people in real life is better than taking our word (including mine) on an anonymous forum known for posters with axes to grind.

I’m not entirely sure what you’re trying to say. Is there jealousy about AAP? Yes, based on thread after thread. Does it not matter much in the long run? It doesn’t. Kids will be just fine either way. APS has a much more holistic, laid back approach toward GT. That may or may not work for everyone.

I think pp was trying to make a flailing defense of FCPS and inadvertently proved the point that AAP is the only thing that matters in FCPS, everyone else’s experiences are irrelevant.

No one has to defend FCPS here. This thread exists because of APS’s mismanagement, not FCPS’s.

There is nothing especially “holistic” or “laid back” about relying on geographic segregation to produce classrooms where most of the minority and low-income kids are concentrated in certain schools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like any school system, FCPS experiences challenges around shifting population bubbles, but as whole I think the larger system gives them more resources to deal with them. People point out disparities between schools in wealthier vs. poorer areas of the county, but if you look at data of similar geographical areas or similarly large school districts, FCPS is quite notable for relative equity--the differences in achievement scores between the lowest 25% of its schools aren't as different from the upper 25% compared to other similarly sized districts (this likely has more to do with the high median income in the county rather than any specific quality of FCPS). I think people are noticing that the inequities are sharpening a bit as resources have gotten stretched thinner.
Having experienced both, I would say that FCPS as a whole is better run than APS as a whole, but individual schools vary.

Correct. If FCPS wasn’t meeting the needs of its lower-income and minority students better, the high schools other than TJ would max out as 5s on Great Schools, just like Yorktown, and more would be 3s and 4s like Wakefield and W-L.

No, the new GS methodology rewards economically segregated schools. It doesn't compare how disadvantaged students are doing to each other, between schools, or as compared to the statewide or system averages. It compares how they are doing relative to the non-disadvantaged students within their schools. So schools with more homogeneously wealthy populations have the highest scores, and schools with a statistically measurable cohort of disadvantaged students had scores that went down. To expect the same outcome from kids who are living completely different lives and being exposed to completely disparate enrichment and vocabulary and experience is absurd. This is completely wrong from an educational standpoint and rewards proficiency rather than growth, which is not a true measure of school performance or excellence. The schools with scores that went down the most were schools where economic disparity amount its students was the greatest, such as Yorktown, where there are a good number of families in the 1%, as well as a statistically significant number of families whose students qualify for fr/l and who live in subsidized housing in Rosslyn.

Please. So sick of hearing this.
Yorktown fRL percentage is smaller than other schools that didn’t take the same hit
West Springfield....
As a south Arlington parent you jerks couldn’t shut up at GS rating a few years ago.
Turns out Wakefield has the same outcome for snowflakes as Yorktown...
As far as I’m concerned Great Schools is just as relevant as it’s always been.

Look, I am also a south Arlington parent. The new methodology further promotes economic segregation. It's garbage, and it's going to damage real children as it further incentivizes boundaries that reinforce residential segregation. Do I believe they mean anything as relates to actual education or teacher quality or anything? No, certainly not, and I never have. But they are problematic anyway.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fairfax has its own issues. Elementary and middle is extremely segregated between AAP and “regular”. Larger class sizes.

The dichotomy between AAP and regular can be socially devastating and humiliating to families whose kids don’t make the cut.

OP, please take posts about how "devastating" AAP is with a huge grain of salt. You're going to get a LOT of this AAP-bashing on here. The whole "dichotomy, segregation, social humiliation" line. Angry, grossly generalized, vague claims. DCUM is rife with posters who come here mostly to write posts like this for whatever reason. Families who had or have kids in AAP can tell a different story about the positives--and families with kids in general ed at AAP center schools do not all resent AAP, no matter what some posters will claim. Every AAP center school is different and there surely are some with "us versus them" parents, but that doesn't mean Every. Single. Center. is a segregated nightmare of haves and have nots. That wasn't our experience or the experience of the many families we knew through six years of AAP.

Make your choice based on the overall pyramid. Don't rely much on DCUM other than as general guidelines and treat intensely negative posts like you'd treat extreme outlier reviews on a travel web site--set aside the extreme ones. Put in a lot of time in the actual areas you'd consider. I know parents who moved and who attended a PTA meeting or two at schools they were considering. Any way you can meet people in real life is better than taking our word (including mine) on an anonymous forum known for posters with axes to grind.

I’m not entirely sure what you’re trying to say. Is there jealousy about AAP? Yes, based on thread after thread. Does it not matter much in the long run? It doesn’t. Kids will be just fine either way. APS has a much more holistic, laid back approach toward GT. That may or may not work for everyone.

I think pp was trying to make a flailing defense of FCPS and inadvertently proved the point that AAP is the only thing that matters in FCPS, everyone else’s experiences are irrelevant.