Anonymous wrote:The way to handle this is for the overall community to shame people who sit. Just like boycotting or any other coercive but legal action.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The rest of the world looks on and shakes their head at the deluded Americans shooting each other all day while still insisting that the kids stand and say a pledge with their hands on their hearts.

There are many other countries that manage to have much lower crime rates (and no massacres!) whose citizens conduct themselves with far more respect for the country... and who don't stand and say a pledge to the flag.

I can understand not dropping the flag, not stepping on the flag, not burning the flag, etc.

But not standing for the pledge?

We need to get our priorities in order.

The rest of the world needs sexy , armed , individual rights USA to be their daddy and protect them constantly. The rest of the world needs to stop being dependent pantywaists.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The rest of the world looks on and shakes their head at the deluded Americans shooting each other all day while still insisting that the kids stand and say a pledge with their hands on their hearts.

There are many other countries that manage to have much lower crime rates (and no massacres!) whose citizens conduct themselves with far more respect for the country... and who don't stand and say a pledge to the flag.

I can understand not dropping the flag, not stepping on the flag, not burning the flag, etc.

But not standing for the pledge?

We need to get our priorities in order.

The rest of the world needs sexy , armed , individual rights USA to be their daddy and protect them constantly. The rest of the world needs to stop being dependent pantywaists.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The rest of the world looks on and shakes their head at the deluded Americans shooting each other all day while still insisting that the kids stand and say a pledge with their hands on their hearts.

There are many other countries that manage to have much lower crime rates (and no massacres!) whose citizens conduct themselves with far more respect for the country... and who don't stand and say a pledge to the flag.

I can understand not dropping the flag, not stepping on the flag, not burning the flag, etc.

But not standing for the pledge?

We need to get our priorities in order.

The rest of the world needs sexy , armed , individual rights USA to be their daddy and protect them constantly. The rest of the world needs to stop being dependent pantywaists.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Children standing in unison, positioning their hands in a certain gesture, and chanting slogans together at a flag is exactly what the morning routine is for schools in Cuba and North Korea. All the little kids in their Young Pioneer scarves standing there in rows watching the flag being raised and reciting, "Pioneers of communism, we will be like Che!" (or Kim). You can watch videos of it on YouTube. Not a single western democracy does anything like this except us, and I am completely baffled by the same people who would scream bloody murder at the slightest hint of anything "socialist" thinking that this is the image we want our American children imitating. This sort of morning school routine has pretty much been the exclusive purview of totalitarian regimes for the last 80 years--Hitler, the USSR and its satellites, etc. Indoctrinate the kids young to line up and chant patriotic slogans demonstrating fealty to the regime. WHY would you want your kids copying this? Do you utterly lack the historical comparisons for this? It is NOT the same as the national anthem. Every country has a national anthem that it's basic manners to stand for. Only certain types of countries do THIS, countries we do not want to be anything like. Watching it turns my stomach. Just add a red bandanna and a Kim poster and you're all set!

You don't understand the difference between saluting a person (Hitler, Kim, Che, Lenin, Stalin) and a flag that represents us all? Big difference.

Anonymous wrote:

Nobody on this thread has said that kids should never be required to do anything. This thread is about schools requiring kids TO STAND FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. The Supreme Court has ruled that it is unconstitutional for schools to require kids TO STAND FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. I.e., requiring kids TO STAND FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE violates their FIRST AMENDMENT rights.

Doesn't say anything about standing. Sorry. They are not standing to salute. They are standing in respect for others--just like you are silent when others pray.[i][u] If you don't want to say the Lord's Prayer at a funeral, you do not have to do so--but, it is expected that you will remain silent for others.

Anonymous wrote:Children standing in unison, positioning their hands in a certain gesture, and chanting slogans together at a flag is exactly what the morning routine is for schools in Cuba and North Korea. All the little kids in their Young Pioneer scarves standing there in rows watching the flag being raised and reciting, "Pioneers of communism, we will be like Che!" (or Kim). You can watch videos of it on YouTube. Not a single western democracy does anything like this except us, and I am completely baffled by the same people who would scream bloody murder at the slightest hint of anything "socialist" thinking that this is the image we want our American children imitating. This sort of morning school routine has pretty much been the exclusive purview of totalitarian regimes for the last 80 years--Hitler, the USSR and its satellites, etc. Indoctrinate the kids young to line up and chant patriotic slogans demonstrating fealty to the regime. WHY would you want your kids copying this? Do you utterly lack the historical comparisons for this? It is NOT the same as the national anthem. Every country has a national anthem that it's basic manners to stand for. Only certain types of countries do THIS, countries we do not want to be anything like. Watching it turns my stomach. Just add a red bandanna and a Kim poster and you're all set!

Anonymous wrote:The rest of the world looks on and shakes their head at the deluded Americans shooting each other all day while still insisting that the kids stand and say a pledge with their hands on their hearts.

There are many other countries that manage to have much lower crime rates (and no massacres!) whose citizens conduct themselves with far more respect for the country... and who don't stand and say a pledge to the flag.

I can understand not dropping the flag, not stepping on the flag, not burning the flag, etc.

But not standing for the pledge?

We need to get our priorities in order.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nobody on this thread has said that kids should never be required to do anything. This thread is about schools requiring kids TO STAND FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. The Supreme Court has ruled that it is unconstitutional for schools to require kids TO STAND FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. I.e., requiring kids TO STAND FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE violates their FIRST AMENDMENT rights.

Doesn't say anything about standing. Sorry. They are not standing to salute. They are standing in respect for others--just like you are silent when others pray. If you don't want to say the Lord's Prayer at a funeral, you do not have to do so--but, it is expected that you will remain silent for others.

Well the esteemed Supreme Court justices disagreed with you. They clearly argue in the decision that no only is saying the pledge a form of political speech, but gestures can also be political speech (physically saluting the flag, bowing or baring the head, or kneeling). Because political speech cannot be compelled by the state and compulsory physical gestures or actions are a form of political speech, physical actions cannot be compelled by the state.