Anonymous
02/20/2018 16:58
Subject: Re:Is Cold Spring HGC the only HGC targeted by MCPS for denying entrance to MS magnet programs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I really hope that parents of accepted kids don't bring this attitude with them to the magnet programs. I am picturing them side-eyeing any black and hispanic 11-year-olds who they assume are unqualified.
It is absolutely the case that prior to this new admission procedure, tons of kids with uninformed parents or parents who don't speak English didn't know they were supposed to apply. Testing more kids means correcting for that problem. It doesn't mean admitting unqualified students. It means that the kids who used to be admitted were not the only qualified students out there.
Well, certainly, I hope not, but if MCPS were more transparent about the admitted students then this wouldn't happen.
My DC went to HGC. There were some black students, and no one gave them the side eye because this was before the METIS report, when they used to publish the score of the accepted median students.
What is non-transparent?
Not having raw data matters. Cogat is an IQ test. The difference between a 130 and a 155 test score is significant, but MCPS will not release that data.
OK, but what difference is that data going to make given it doesn't tell us anything about a particular student's differentiation from their local peer group? Are you just looking for proof that MCPS is selecting students with lower Cogat scores over students with higher ones where a local cohort exists? If so, isn't that unnecessary given that MCPS has explicitly told us they will be doing that?
Given that MS magnet is a county wide program, and MCPS is supposed to serve ALL of its students equally, they shouldn't be using "cohort" at your home school as a reason to reject a student who scored really high and admit someone who didn't, especially given that the local schools absolutely do not provide anything near an enriched curriculum like the magnets do. That is not serving the needs of ALL its students.
Anonymous
02/20/2018 16:55
Subject: Is Cold Spring HGC the only HGC targeted by MCPS for denying entrance to MS magnet programs?
^sorry, that should say "now" rather than "no", and I realize that I'm posting about entrance to CES, when this thread is about entrance to MS magnet. Apologies.
Anonymous
02/20/2018 16:55
Subject: Re:Is Cold Spring HGC the only HGC targeted by MCPS for denying entrance to MS magnet programs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I really hope that parents of accepted kids don't bring this attitude with them to the magnet programs. I am picturing them side-eyeing any black and hispanic 11-year-olds who they assume are unqualified.
It is absolutely the case that prior to this new admission procedure, tons of kids with uninformed parents or parents who don't speak English didn't know they were supposed to apply. Testing more kids means correcting for that problem. It doesn't mean admitting unqualified students. It means that the kids who used to be admitted were not the only qualified students out there.
Well, certainly, I hope not, but if MCPS were more transparent about the admitted students then this wouldn't happen.
My DC went to HGC. There were some black students, and no one gave them the side eye because this was before the METIS report, when they used to publish the score of the accepted median students.
What is non-transparent?
Not having raw data matters. Cogat is an IQ test. The difference between a 130 and a 155 test score is significant, but MCPS will not release that data.
OK, but what difference is that data going to make given it doesn't tell us anything about a particular student's differentiation from their local peer group? Are you just looking for proof that MCPS is selecting students with lower Cogat scores over students with higher ones where a local cohort exists? If so, isn't that unnecessary given that MCPS has explicitly told us they will be doing that?
Anonymous
02/20/2018 16:53
Subject: Re:Is Cold Spring HGC the only HGC targeted by MCPS for denying entrance to MS magnet programs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I really hope that parents of accepted kids don't bring this attitude with them to the magnet programs. I am picturing them side-eyeing any black and hispanic 11-year-olds who they assume are unqualified.
It is absolutely the case that prior to this new admission procedure, tons of kids with uninformed parents or parents who don't speak English didn't know they were supposed to apply. Testing more kids means correcting for that problem. It doesn't mean admitting unqualified students. It means that the kids who used to be admitted were not the only qualified students out there.
Well, certainly, I hope not, but if MCPS were more transparent about the admitted students then this wouldn't happen.
My DC went to HGC. There were some black students, and no one gave them the side eye because this was before the METIS report, when they used to publish the score of the accepted median students.
What is non-transparent?
One way is that they stopped publishing the median test scores of the three categories of accepted students. Why did they stop that? Parent would be able to see where their child placed in regards to accepted students. If the student's scores were much lower in all three areas compared to the median of accepted students, it's obvious why the student was denied. If it's lower in only one area, but higher in the other two, and was rejected, you might have the basis to appeal, or at least find out why your child was rejected.
The way it is no, you have no clue where your child falls, and so you have less reason to appeal. IMO, that's why MCPS stopped publishing the test scores.
Anonymous
02/20/2018 16:50
Subject: Re:Is Cold Spring HGC the only HGC targeted by MCPS for denying entrance to MS magnet programs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I really hope that parents of accepted kids don't bring this attitude with them to the magnet programs. I am picturing them side-eyeing any black and hispanic 11-year-olds who they assume are unqualified.
It is absolutely the case that prior to this new admission procedure, tons of kids with uninformed parents or parents who don't speak English didn't know they were supposed to apply. Testing more kids means correcting for that problem. It doesn't mean admitting unqualified students. It means that the kids who used to be admitted were not the only qualified students out there.
Well, certainly, I hope not, but if MCPS were more transparent about the admitted students then this wouldn't happen.
My DC went to HGC. There were some black students, and no one gave them the side eye because this was before the METIS report, when they used to publish the score of the accepted median students.
What is non-transparent?
Not having raw data matters. Cogat is an IQ test. The difference between a 130 and a 155 test score is significant, but MCPS will not release that data.
Anonymous
02/20/2018 16:47
Subject: Re:Is Cold Spring HGC the only HGC targeted by MCPS for denying entrance to MS magnet programs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I really hope that parents of accepted kids don't bring this attitude with them to the magnet programs. I am picturing them side-eyeing any black and hispanic 11-year-olds who they assume are unqualified.
It is absolutely the case that prior to this new admission procedure, tons of kids with uninformed parents or parents who don't speak English didn't know they were supposed to apply. Testing more kids means correcting for that problem. It doesn't mean admitting unqualified students. It means that the kids who used to be admitted were not the only qualified students out there.
Well, certainly, I hope not, but if MCPS were more transparent about the admitted students then this wouldn't happen.
My DC went to HGC. There were some black students, and no one gave them the side eye because this was before the METIS report, when they used to publish the score of the accepted median students.
What is non-transparent?
Anonymous
02/20/2018 16:46
Subject: Re:Is Cold Spring HGC the only HGC targeted by MCPS for denying entrance to MS magnet programs?
Anonymous wrote:I really hope that parents of accepted kids don't bring this attitude with them to the magnet programs. I am picturing them side-eyeing any black and hispanic 11-year-olds who they assume are unqualified.
It is absolutely the case that prior to this new admission procedure, tons of kids with uninformed parents or parents who don't speak English didn't know they were supposed to apply. Testing more kids means correcting for that problem. It doesn't mean admitting unqualified students. It means that the kids who used to be admitted were not the only qualified students out there.
Well, certainly, I hope not, but if MCPS were more transparent about the admitted students then this wouldn't happen.
My DC went to HGC. There were some black students, and no one gave them the side eye because this was before the METIS report, when they used to publish the score of the accepted median students.
Anonymous
02/20/2018 16:42
Subject: Re:Is Cold Spring HGC the only HGC targeted by MCPS for denying entrance to MS magnet programs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Are you saying that there is no way that MCPS is hiding anything? Since when MCPS becomes so credible? Nobody is saying that scores should be the only factor for consideration. The parents are just asking for transparency, nothing wrong with that and they have the right to know.
What do parents have the right to know, and why?
DP
Parents have the right to know what scored were required for a child to get accepted.
Is there a single cut-off score/percentile?
Since we know many top 1% students were not admitted, then obviously not. Unless you live in certain zip codes.
Anonymous
02/20/2018 16:40
Subject: Re:Is Cold Spring HGC the only HGC targeted by MCPS for denying entrance to MS magnet programs?
If the test scores of URM are not going up year over year but their admit rate is going up year over year, then this indicates something is off. Could it be that many of those higher performing URM students weren't applying year after year? Maybe. If this is the case, and those kids are scoring really really high, why wouldn't MCPS tout this by publishing the median scores of the admitted students. Wouldn't it be great to see how the admitted students' median scores are great, and it just goes to show that their process is working? Instead, they stopped showing those scores as if there is something to hide.
Yes, they admit individual kids not averages, but statistics have meaning. That's why METIS report used those stats, and MCPS used those stats to change the criteria. What you are saying is "look at the stats to make it more equitable, but don't look at the stats when looking at who they admit'.
Yes, this. Exactly.
Anonymous
02/20/2018 16:34
Subject: Re:Is Cold Spring HGC the only HGC targeted by MCPS for denying entrance to MS magnet programs?
Anonymous wrote:I really hope that parents of accepted kids don't bring this attitude with them to the magnet programs. I am picturing them side-eyeing any black and hispanic 11-year-olds who they assume are unqualified.
It is absolutely the case that prior to this new admission procedure, tons of kids with uninformed parents or parents who don't speak English didn't know they were supposed to apply. Testing more kids means correcting for that problem. It doesn't mean admitting unqualified students. It means that the kids who used to be admitted were not the only qualified students out there.
Oh good, I know you originally had "slant-eyeing" typed in and changed it. You do hate them Asians and Crackers don't you.
Anonymous
02/20/2018 16:32
Subject: Re:Is Cold Spring HGC the only HGC targeted by MCPS for denying entrance to MS magnet programs?
Anonymous wrote:
It is absolutely the case that prior to this new admission procedure, tons of kids with uninformed parents or parents who don't speak English didn't know they were supposed to apply. Testing more kids means correcting for that problem. It doesn't mean admitting unqualified students. It means that the kids who used to be admitted were not the only qualified students out there.
That's very much likely the case. but when you obscure the data, people can't help speculating, like Drumpf's tax record.
Anonymous
02/20/2018 16:29
Subject: Re:Is Cold Spring HGC the only HGC targeted by MCPS for denying entrance to MS magnet programs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I really hope that parents of accepted kids don't bring this attitude with them to the magnet programs. I am picturing them side-eyeing any black and hispanic 11-year-olds who they assume are unqualified.
It is absolutely the case that prior to this new admission procedure, tons of kids with uninformed parents or parents who don't speak English didn't know they were supposed to apply. Testing more kids means correcting for that problem. It doesn't mean admitting unqualified students. It means that the kids who used to be admitted were not the only qualified students out there.
And THAT is exactly why MCPS needs to be more transparent.
Show the parents from CS that ALL of the kids who have been admitted are all qualified to be there. Then, it’s a non-issue.
Or parents could model "not being a racist jackass" for their kids.
DP. Are statistics racist? Because stats show URM groups score much lower across the board. No one is saying that there aren't smart URM students, but statistically, there aren't many in MCPS who score high.
Anonymous
02/20/2018 16:22
Subject: Re:Is Cold Spring HGC the only HGC targeted by MCPS for denying entrance to MS magnet programs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
DP.. I think it's just looking at the numbers.
1. URM statistically score lower than Asian/white counterparts
2. there is a much lower acceptance rate among the students in the higher Asian/white concentrated areas compared to years past
3. MCPS changed the way they look at students when determining acceptance
4. MCPS no longer provides the median test scores of accepted students (this is the case in CES, to my knowlege, not sure about MS magnet)
All of this makes it seems suspicious, and so parents would like more transparency in how MCPS is determining who gets accepted. Again, no one is saying that there aren't smart URM students in MCPS, but the stats show how the test scores lay out among the groups.
If one claims that test scores shouldn't be the only thing used for magnet acceptance, then it goes back to the "holistic" approach argument, which usually means affirmative action of some sort.
They don't admit average scores. They admit individual kids.
Also, MCPS has said that it's not only test scores. Haven't you read their FAQs? It also wasn't only test scores under the previous admissions process. And it shouldn't be only test scores.
Here's your argument, boiled down: "My kid had high test scores. My kid didn't get in. This shows that MCPS is admitting undeserving black and brown kids with lower test scores." Yuck.
If the test scores of URM are not going up year over year but their admit rate is going up year over year, then this indicates something is off. Could it be that many of those higher performing URM students weren't applying year after year? Maybe. If this is the case, and those kids are scoring really really high, why wouldn't MCPS tout this by publishing the median scores of the admitted students. Wouldn't it be great to see how the admitted students' median scores are great, and it just goes to show that their process is working? Instead, they stopped showing those scores as if there is something to hide.
Yes, they admit individual kids not averages, but statistics have meaning. That's why METIS report used those stats, and MCPS used those stats to change the criteria. What you are saying is "look at the stats to make it more equitable, but don't look at the stats when looking at who they admit'.
Anonymous
02/20/2018 16:14
Subject: Re:Is Cold Spring HGC the only HGC targeted by MCPS for denying entrance to MS magnet programs?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I really hope that parents of accepted kids don't bring this attitude with them to the magnet programs. I am picturing them side-eyeing any black and hispanic 11-year-olds who they assume are unqualified.
It is absolutely the case that prior to this new admission procedure, tons of kids with uninformed parents or parents who don't speak English didn't know they were supposed to apply. Testing more kids means correcting for that problem. It doesn't mean admitting unqualified students. It means that the kids who used to be admitted were not the only qualified students out there.
And THAT is exactly why MCPS needs to be more transparent.
Show the parents from CS that ALL of the kids who have been admitted are all qualified to be there. Then, it’s a non-issue.
Or parents could model "not being a racist jackass" for their kids.
Anonymous
02/20/2018 16:10
Subject: Re:Is Cold Spring HGC the only HGC targeted by MCPS for denying entrance to MS magnet programs?
Anonymous wrote:I really hope that parents of accepted kids don't bring this attitude with them to the magnet programs. I am picturing them side-eyeing any black and hispanic 11-year-olds who they assume are unqualified.
It is absolutely the case that prior to this new admission procedure, tons of kids with uninformed parents or parents who don't speak English didn't know they were supposed to apply. Testing more kids means correcting for that problem. It doesn't mean admitting unqualified students. It means that the kids who used to be admitted were not the only qualified students out there.
And THAT is exactly why MCPS needs to be more transparent.
Show the parents from CS that ALL of the kids who have been admitted are all qualified to be there. Then, it’s a non-issue.