Anonymous
Post 02/01/2018 15:41     Subject: Re:Does AAP create unhelpful elitism and separation?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:So, you are not even part of that community, but you find something so wrong with that field trip, because of the gossip that it creates.

You should run for the school board and really make a positive change.


You think the AAP program will last forever here and your little field trip doesn't make a difference. It does. Things change. I like AAP for the academic rigor it provides my child. I hate your field trip for the elitism it promotes.


I am the poster you quoted and I am NOT part of the community in questions. It is absurd that you 'hate' a field trip because YOU call it 'elitist'. Those parents and kids have the FREEDOM to participate in any activity they like, as long as they don't infringe on your rights.

How are you being infringed? This is pure envy.
Anonymous
Post 02/01/2018 15:37     Subject: Re:Does AAP create unhelpful elitism and separation?
Anonymous wrote:

many may not be, but what do you do for the ones that are?

They're not having their needs met in AAP as it is, so why does it really matter? I have the kid who is grade skipped in AAP math and still finds everything incredibly slow. Right now, the system seems to be set up such that the bulk of kids in AAP don't need it, and it's completely inadequate for those who do need it. Kids who actually are gifted need to enroll in outside gifted programs if they want their needs met.
Anonymous
Post 02/01/2018 15:34     Subject: Re:Does AAP create unhelpful elitism and separation?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The kids are wasting time switching classes over and over. Kids are being shuffled to and from teacher to teacher, and are not able to form solid relationships with any of the teachers. Kids get lost in the shuffle.

At my local elementary, the second graders switch classrooms for math, reading pullouts, and word study with no problems at all. If regular 7 year olds are capable of handling this, I imagine that most AAP qualified 3rd-6th graders would be fine as well.


These AAP kids switch for math, then again for history, then again for language arts, then again for science, and then specials and lunch. They are dealing with 4-5 teachers a day. At 9 years old. They don’t have a single teacher who spends enough time with them to actually get to know them.

We just had a forum at our school where they asked for input, and this was the #1 complaint heard over and over again.
Anonymous
Post 02/01/2018 15:32     Subject: Re:Does AAP create unhelpful elitism and separation?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The kids are wasting time switching classes over and over. Kids are being shuffled to and from teacher to teacher, and are not able to form solid relationships with any of the teachers. Kids get lost in the shuffle.

At my local elementary, the second graders switch classrooms for math, reading pullouts, and word study with no problems at all. If regular 7 year olds are capable of handling this, I imagine that most AAP qualified 3rd-6th graders would be fine as well.


At our local elementary, there are no pullouts or switching classes whatsoever for K-2. Interesting that there is no standardization across FCPS on this, but I am not sure that I care.
Anonymous
Post 02/01/2018 15:32     Subject: Re:Does AAP create unhelpful elitism and separation?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Our local elementary school is currently doing this and it isn’t working. They are actively looking for a solution. History : they had self contained aap classrooms for years, and changed to a model that integrates the aap kids with gen ed for science and history (supposedly aap curriculum for those areas), and pullouts for laungage arts and math. Here’s the problem. The kids are wasting time switching classes over and over. Kids are being shuffled to and from teacher to teacher, and are not able to form solid relationships with any of the teachers. Kids get lost in the shuffle.

The supposed ‘AAP’ science and history instruction that all student are receiving is virtually indistinguishable from the regular instruction the gen ed kids were recievinf before this change was made. Teachers are teaching to the average student in those areas, and the aap kids are bored and disengaging. The level 4 services the kids are supposed to be recievinf is basically level 3 services. The motivation for this change was to better serve the gen ed student, and to give them access to the resources the level 4 students receive. It’s done nothing but devalue the instruction the level 4 students receive. So we are benefitting the gen ed kids at the expense of the AAP kids.

It’s probably obvious that I send my AAP kid to the center.


For clarification: Is your local elementary school the center school that your AAP kid is at? Or is your local elementary school a base school or a school with Local Level IV? I was a bit confused by your post.


My local school is not a center has ‘full time’ Level 4 services that have been effectively watered down the level 3. They would have 2-3 level 4 classrooms if they still had self contained classrooms. They still operate under a local level 4 label. I have one kid in gen ed there, one kid who goes to the center (other school), and one kid in pool who will also go the the center if he gets in.


Thank you for the clarification.
Anonymous
Post 02/01/2018 15:31     Subject: Re:Does AAP create unhelpful elitism and separation?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The kids are wasting time switching classes over and over. Kids are being shuffled to and from teacher to teacher, and are not able to form solid relationships with any of the teachers. Kids get lost in the shuffle.

At my local elementary, the second graders switch classrooms for math, reading pullouts, and word study with no problems at all. If regular 7 year olds are capable of handling this, I imagine that most AAP qualified 3rd-6th graders would be fine as well.


Second grade is too young for that. The second graders absolutely have problems with that switching -- they may not have voiced those problems to you or even realized. But it's not best practice for 2nd graders to switch classrooms because they're not old enough for that yet.
Anonymous
Post 02/01/2018 15:31     Subject: Re:Does AAP create unhelpful elitism and separation?
Anonymous wrote:What about the base school that has two kids that would qualify? That’s why the center model started but then it was only the top 5 or 6% back then. Agree the system isn’t right but how do you fix it? Seems we ended up where we are because of pressure from parents to expand.

They would have to handle it on a case-by-case basis. The western and northern parts of the county should have critical mass in the base schools for using a LLIV model. The schools that lack critical mass for LLIV would still need a center.
Anonymous
Post 02/01/2018 15:30     Subject: Re:Does AAP create unhelpful elitism and separation?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
so how do you group the 20 kids who are advanced in everything?

Many AAP kids aren't. At least from these forums, it seems reasonably common for AAP kids to really struggle with the math or to be merely on-grade level with language arts. Keep in mind that many, many AAP kids aren't actually gifted at all.


many may not be, but what do you do for the ones that are?
Anonymous
Post 02/01/2018 15:30     Subject: Re:Does AAP create unhelpful elitism and separation?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Our local elementary school is currently doing this and it isn’t working. They are actively looking for a solution. History : they had self contained aap classrooms for years, and changed to a model that integrates the aap kids with gen ed for science and history (supposedly aap curriculum for those areas), and pullouts for laungage arts and math. Here’s the problem. The kids are wasting time switching classes over and over. Kids are being shuffled to and from teacher to teacher, and are not able to form solid relationships with any of the teachers. Kids get lost in the shuffle.

The supposed ‘AAP’ science and history instruction that all student are receiving is virtually indistinguishable from the regular instruction the gen ed kids were recievinf before this change was made. Teachers are teaching to the average student in those areas, and the aap kids are bored and disengaging. The level 4 services the kids are supposed to be recievinf is basically level 3 services. The motivation for this change was to better serve the gen ed student, and to give them access to the resources the level 4 students receive. It’s done nothing but devalue the instruction the level 4 students receive. So we are benefitting the gen ed kids at the expense of the AAP kids.

It’s probably obvious that I send my AAP kid to the center.


For clarification: Is your local elementary school the center school that your AAP kid is at? Or is your local elementary school a base school or a school with Local Level IV? I was a bit confused by your post.


My local school is not a center has ‘full time’ Level 4 services that have been effectively watered down the level 3. They would have 2-3 level 4 classrooms if they still had self contained classrooms. They still operate under a local level 4 label. I have one kid in gen ed there, one kid who goes to the center (other school), and one kid in pool who will also go the the center if he gets in.
Anonymous
Post 02/01/2018 15:28     Subject: Re:Does AAP create unhelpful elitism and separation?
Anonymous wrote:The kids are wasting time switching classes over and over. Kids are being shuffled to and from teacher to teacher, and are not able to form solid relationships with any of the teachers. Kids get lost in the shuffle.

At my local elementary, the second graders switch classrooms for math, reading pullouts, and word study with no problems at all. If regular 7 year olds are capable of handling this, I imagine that most AAP qualified 3rd-6th graders would be fine as well.
Anonymous
Post 02/01/2018 15:28     Subject: Re:Does AAP create unhelpful elitism and separation?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:PP, do you know which neighborhood OP is looking to move into? Can you speak for all of FX County?

I'm curious if OP will move to some schools rated as 1-5 on great schools, or is she looking to move to a neighborhood with school ratings more comparable to FCC. Maybe, since OP loves diversity so much she should move her kids to some school where 90% of the students don't speak English. That will provide her true diversity, and a chance to do a lot of good.

PP, also, if your kids are in HS, that means that they would have been part of the old program which was truly GT, and not expanded like today's program. And what's your school rating? From the way you speak, I bet it is 8-10.


OP here. Because of commuting proximity to our work, we are looking at the Pimmit Hills area, specifically, Westgate Elementary, Lemon Road Elementary, Kilmer MS, and Marshall HS. We are open to other suggestions/ideas. (need to be able to drive into NW DC). We are also looking at Arlington, but housing prices are harder for us there.


Wait - you are looking for a diverse school, and work in DC? And yet you are intent on staying in VA? Why not move to DC? DCPS and DCPCS are diverse.

Oh, I get it - you're opposed to elitism, and want diversity, but not THAT much diversity.


FCC is closer to NW DC than the Pimmit area. So you are not leaving because of commute. Whatever your reasons for moving are, you are afraid that your kid, who is getting top services now and has access to all kinds of peers, will no longer receive those services and access those peers in the new school, and you are picking up an ethical argument.

Also as the second quoted poster suggested, you can move to NW DC. Schools are very diverse there. Or is that kind of diversity too much for you?
Anonymous
Post 02/01/2018 15:28     Subject: Does AAP create unhelpful elitism and separation?
Anonymous wrote:AAP is skimming off all the best teachers and leaving behavior problems in gen ed. It needs to stop. Now. There's no reason that kids who are tutored, coached and pressured should have access to the best teachers or that other teachers should get burnt out because they don't get the rewards of really brilliant children. If your children are so smart their work can be enhanced in special math and reading groups.


In many cases, the behavior problems go to AAP, benefitting gen ed. Should that stop now?
Anonymous
Post 02/01/2018 15:27     Subject: Does AAP create unhelpful elitism and separation?
AAP is skimming off all the best teachers and leaving behavior problems in gen ed. It needs to stop. Now. There's no reason that kids who are tutored, coached and pressured should have access to the best teachers or that other teachers should get burnt out because they don't get the rewards of really brilliant children. If your children are so smart their work can be enhanced in special math and reading groups.
Anonymous
Post 02/01/2018 15:26     Subject: Re:Does AAP create unhelpful elitism and separation?
Anonymous wrote:
They are not. At the AAP centers the AAP and non-AAP kids do lunch, PE, and specials together.

It depends on the school.
Anonymous
Post 02/01/2018 15:25     Subject: Re:Does AAP create unhelpful elitism and separation?
Anonymous wrote:
so how do you group the 20 kids who are advanced in everything?

Many AAP kids aren't. At least from these forums, it seems reasonably common for AAP kids to really struggle with the math or to be merely on-grade level with language arts. Keep in mind that many, many AAP kids aren't actually gifted at all.