Anonymous
01/11/2018 10:17
Subject: CogAT/Pool letter arrived
Anonymous wrote:There’s more than one pro nnat poster. R u the only pro cogat poster??
Real life situations:
Boy got a 128 cogat, 108 nnat, 118 WISC and got into aap. Kid thinks he’s brilliant, but he’s just average and WISC confirms this. Would do just fine in general education. Really doesn’t belong in aap. A solid kid with strengths in math but not superior in anything!
Girl got a 155 nnat, 142 cogat, 145 WISC. Kid doesn’t think she’s brilliant. Just wants to do the best she can. Is in aap.
Boy got a 138 nnat, 118 cogat. Needed to appeal. WISC showed add inattentive. GAI 145 fsiq 120 because of low processing speed. In aap.
The best indicator of “needing” aap is the WISC. An average WISC without 2E is not a kid who needs aap. But aap is full of solidly average/above average kids. Only a handful of actual superior or genuis kids.
I'm "pro cogat" in the sense that I think it leads to AAP acceptance; Not in the sense that a high cogat really indicates giftedness. I agree that aap is full of average/above average kids. But those kids generally are getting accepted with high-ish cogat and high-ish GBRS. I know several kids who had high NNAT but low cogats who were rejected. I also know several with low NNATs and okay Cogats who got in. This also seems consistent with the previous year AAP admissions threads.
Anonymous
01/11/2018 10:12
Subject: Re:CogAT/Pool letter arrived
Anonymous wrote:On the Referral fence:
Composite score 127, with a high verbal 95 but 74 quant and 71 non-verbal. The really odd part is that he's does really well in math and is not a top reader in his class. So surprised by the scores.
I think it would boil down to GBRS.
Thoughts?
Thanks.
Is kid in highest reading and math groups? Do you expect a decent GBRS? Was the NNAT at least kind of okay? If so, refer.
Anonymous
01/11/2018 09:48
Subject: CogAT/Pool letter arrived
Anonymous wrote:There’s more than one pro nnat poster. R u the only pro cogat poster??
Real life situations:
Boy got a 128 cogat, 108 nnat, 118 WISC and got into aap. Kid thinks he’s brilliant, but he’s just average and WISC confirms this. Would do just fine in general education. Really doesn’t belong in aap. A solid kid with strengths in math but not superior in anything!
Girl got a 155 nnat, 142 cogat, 145 WISC. Kid doesn’t think she’s brilliant. Just wants to do the best she can. Is in aap.
Boy got a 138 nnat, 118 cogat. Needed to appeal. WISC showed add inattentive. GAI 145 fsiq 120 because of low processing speed. In aap.
The best indicator of “needing” aap is the WISC. An average WISC without 2E is not a kid who needs aap. But aap is full of solidly average/above average kids. Only a handful of actual superior or genuis kids.
I don't have a dog in this fight this year (my oldest kid got in last year) and my younger ones are still early elementary, but the bolded puzzles me because there were parents last year posting whose kids had scores higher than this and they didn't get in on appeal. Was this kid accepted first round or did you have to appeal? Do you know what the GBRS was?
Anonymous
01/11/2018 09:43
Subject: Re:CogAT/Pool letter arrived
My child got 147/140. From this thread I learned they are pretty good scores. However I don't care whether we get admitted to aap. They will shine as long as they work hard, anywhere. Also it depends more on parents.
Anonymous
01/11/2018 09:41
Subject: Re:CogAT/Pool letter arrived
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:On the Referral fence:
Composite score 127, with a high verbal 95 but 74 quant and 71 non-verbal. The really odd part is that he's does really well in math and is not a top reader in his class. So surprised by the scores.
I think it would boil down to GBRS.
Thoughts?
Thanks.
I wouldn't refer.
Disagree. Refer, you have nothing to lose by doing so.
Anonymous
01/11/2018 09:39
Subject: Re:CogAT/Pool letter arrived
Anonymous wrote:On the Referral fence:
Composite score 127, with a high verbal 95 but 74 quant and 71 non-verbal. The really odd part is that he's does really well in math and is not a top reader in his class. So surprised by the scores.
I think it would boil down to GBRS.
Thoughts?
Thanks.
I wouldn't refer.
Anonymous
01/11/2018 09:32
Subject: Re:CogAT/Pool letter arrived
On the Referral fence:
Composite score 127, with a high verbal 95 but 74 quant and 71 non-verbal. The really odd part is that he's does really well in math and is not a top reader in his class. So surprised by the scores.
I think it would boil down to GBRS.
Thoughts?
Thanks.
Composite score 127, with a high verbal 95 but 74 quant and 71 non-verbal. The really odd part is that he's does really well in math and is not a top reader in his class. So surprised by the scores.
I think it would boil down to GBRS.
Thoughts?
Thanks.
Anonymous
01/11/2018 09:21
Subject: CogAT/Pool letter arrived
There’s more than one pro nnat poster. R u the only pro cogat poster??
Real life situations:
Boy got a 128 cogat, 108 nnat, 118 WISC and got into aap. Kid thinks he’s brilliant, but he’s just average and WISC confirms this. Would do just fine in general education. Really doesn’t belong in aap. A solid kid with strengths in math but not superior in anything!
Girl got a 155 nnat, 142 cogat, 145 WISC. Kid doesn’t think she’s brilliant. Just wants to do the best she can. Is in aap.
Boy got a 138 nnat, 118 cogat. Needed to appeal. WISC showed add inattentive. GAI 145 fsiq 120 because of low processing speed. In aap.
The best indicator of “needing” aap is the WISC. An average WISC without 2E is not a kid who needs aap. But aap is full of solidly average/above average kids. Only a handful of actual superior or genuis kids.
Real life situations:
Boy got a 128 cogat, 108 nnat, 118 WISC and got into aap. Kid thinks he’s brilliant, but he’s just average and WISC confirms this. Would do just fine in general education. Really doesn’t belong in aap. A solid kid with strengths in math but not superior in anything!
Girl got a 155 nnat, 142 cogat, 145 WISC. Kid doesn’t think she’s brilliant. Just wants to do the best she can. Is in aap.
Boy got a 138 nnat, 118 cogat. Needed to appeal. WISC showed add inattentive. GAI 145 fsiq 120 because of low processing speed. In aap.
The best indicator of “needing” aap is the WISC. An average WISC without 2E is not a kid who needs aap. But aap is full of solidly average/above average kids. Only a handful of actual superior or genuis kids.
Anonymous
01/11/2018 08:28
Subject: CogAT/Pool letter arrived
Anonymous wrote:When posters are writing high NNAT or low NNAT or high Cogat or okay or low Cogat, do you mean high like 132 or very high like 140? Is low 110 or 128?
For the purposes of AAP admission, I would say high = 132+; okay = 120-131; Low = < 120. Likewise, for GBRS: High = 14+, Okay = 11 - 13, low = 10 or less
Despite what the pro-NNAT poster is insisting, from what I've seen:
High Cogat + okay GBRS = IN, even if NNAT is low
High NNAT + High GBRS = IN
High NNAT + okay GBRS = NOT IN, unless Cogat is close to the pool cutoff
If cogat is between 120-131 with a high GBRS, it seems like:
-higher verbal score = IN
-verbal < 120 with higher quant and nonverbal = NOT IN
Anonymous
01/11/2018 08:20
Subject: CogAT/Pool letter arrived
Anonymous wrote:I think lots of kids score low on the nnat, so their parents try to change reality. Low nnat and high cogat equals prepping! Everyone knows this! Cogat is too easily prepped for!
Clearly, the committee doesn't "know" this. If you look at the 2015, 2016, and 2017 admissions threads, many kids are accepted with low NNAT and high Cogat. Many kids are rejected with high NNAT, high GBRS, and lower Cogat. NNAT has no relevance at all for verbal abilities, which are the ones most sought after for AAP.
Also, FYI: NNAT is very easily prepped for, too. Let me guess: your kid had an in-pool NNAT and a low CogAT, and you're now trying to convince yourself that the CogAT doesn't matter.
Anonymous
01/11/2018 08:09
Subject: CogAT/Pool letter arrived
When posters are writing high NNAT or low NNAT or high Cogat or okay or low Cogat, do you mean high like 132 or very high like 140? Is low 110 or 128?
Anonymous
01/11/2018 08:05
Subject: CogAT/Pool letter arrived
I think lots of kids score low on the nnat, so their parents try to change reality. Low nnat and high cogat equals prepping! Everyone knows this! Cogat is too easily prepped for!
Anonymous
01/11/2018 07:35
Subject: CogAT/Pool letter arrived
I agree with the "WRONG" poster. To me, it seems like:
High Cogat + High GBRS = IN (for any NNAT)
High NNAT + High GBRS + okay Cogat (> 120) = IN
High NNAT + low Cogat (< 120) = NOT IN unless GBRS is exceptionally high
okay CogAT (> 120) + low NNAT (< 120) + High GBRS = usually IN
okay NNAT (>120) + low CogAT(<120) + high GBRS = NOT IN.
NNAT is a 30 minute test only of nonverbal skills administered on a computer to 6 year olds. CogAT is administered to older kids and encompasses verbal and mathematical skills in addition to those nonverbal skills. Scoring lower on the NNAT and higher on the CogAT is NOT a red flag; It just means that the kid is better with verbal or quantitative skills than nonverbal ones. High test scores (either NNAT, CogAT, or both) only are a red flag for prepping when the child's in-class behavior does NOT look like that of a gifted child. This is why GBRS matters.
High Cogat + High GBRS = IN (for any NNAT)
High NNAT + High GBRS + okay Cogat (> 120) = IN
High NNAT + low Cogat (< 120) = NOT IN unless GBRS is exceptionally high
okay CogAT (> 120) + low NNAT (< 120) + High GBRS = usually IN
okay NNAT (>120) + low CogAT(<120) + high GBRS = NOT IN.
NNAT is a 30 minute test only of nonverbal skills administered on a computer to 6 year olds. CogAT is administered to older kids and encompasses verbal and mathematical skills in addition to those nonverbal skills. Scoring lower on the NNAT and higher on the CogAT is NOT a red flag; It just means that the kid is better with verbal or quantitative skills than nonverbal ones. High test scores (either NNAT, CogAT, or both) only are a red flag for prepping when the child's in-class behavior does NOT look like that of a gifted child. This is why GBRS matters.
Anonymous
01/11/2018 07:25
Subject: Re:CogAT/Pool letter arrived
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Then why one needs to take NNAT2? Utter waste of tax payers money!! Everything said here is parents speculation! For every argument there is exactly opposite example where AAP admission is granted!
NNAT is less culturally biased and is intended to detect gifted children who are not native English speakers.
Which means that a high/higher NNAT than Cogat is still in pool.
So, to go back to how the tests are weighted, it ends up being something like this (from what I can gather from the threads):
High NNAT, high Cogat, high GBRS - in pool
High NNAT, low-ish Cogat, high GBRS - in pool
High NNAT, low-ish Cogat, low GBRS - Wisc/Appeal
Low NNAT, HIGH Cogat, high GBRS - likely in pool/appeal WRONG
Low NNAT, high cogat, low GBRS - appeal
Low NNAT, low cogat, high GBRS - WISC appeal
In all cases, the "weight" of the test is not mathematical. It's more like a decision tree.
If the child's NNAT is high, the decision is more likely that they will get in. WRONG If the child's NNAT is low, the Cogat has to be extremely high to compensate for the low NNAT, And even then, if you have a high cogat and a low GBRS, it raises red flags because it is more likely that the parents prepped. TOTAL GUESS
The NNAT is really to measure intangibles early on in the testing round. The COGAT confirms. The GBRS is not testing but behavior based. This is super important-- the teachers are analyzing if your kid will be able to do the work involved in AAP. (Gbrs isn't just determined by teachers) So even if your child is shy - if they are not self- starters in individual activities, they will struggle in AAP (bull-), and that's why a high GBRS helps. It's not whether or not you kid is smart, it's whether or not your kid can do things on their own. (No, it's really not)
And for the poster ranting about NNAT and taxpayer dollars: IMHO, having the NNAT is far less costly to our society than having a gifted student fall through the cracks due to losing the birth lottery.
You are really confused and shouldn't be posting because you're going to confuse others.
Lol. +1. Lots is wrong here. Have you even read the GBRS??
Anonymous
01/11/2018 07:06
Subject: Re:CogAT/Pool letter arrived
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Then why one needs to take NNAT2? Utter waste of tax payers money!! Everything said here is parents speculation! For every argument there is exactly opposite example where AAP admission is granted!
NNAT is less culturally biased and is intended to detect gifted children who are not native English speakers.
Which means that a high/higher NNAT than Cogat is still in pool.
So, to go back to how the tests are weighted, it ends up being something like this (from what I can gather from the threads):
High NNAT, high Cogat, high GBRS - in pool
High NNAT, low-ish Cogat, high GBRS - in pool
High NNAT, low-ish Cogat, low GBRS - Wisc/Appeal
Low NNAT, HIGH Cogat, high GBRS - likely in pool/appeal
Low NNAT, high cogat, low GBRS - appeal
Low NNAT, low cogat, high GBRS - WISC appeal
In all cases, the "weight" of the test is not mathematical. It's more like a decision tree.
If the child's NNAT is high, the decision is more likely that they will get in. If the child's NNAT is low, the Cogat has to be extremely high to compensate for the low NNAT, And even then, if you have a high cogat and a low GBRS, it raises red flags because it is more likely that the parents prepped.
The NNAT is really to measure intangibles early on in the testing round. The COGAT confirms. The GBRS is not testing but behavior based. This is super important-- the teachers are analyzing if your kid will be able to do the work involved in AAP. So even if your child is shy - if they are not self-starters in individual activities, they will struggle in AAP, and that's why a high GBRS helps. It's not whether or not you kid is smart, it's whether or not your kid can do things on their own.
And for the poster ranting about NNAT and taxpayer dollars: IMHO, having the NNAT is far less costly to our society than having a gifted student fall through the cracks due to losing the birth lottery.
Correct! This is spot on!