??? You are experiencing some reading comprehension problems and projecting. While you are correct that I don't think well (at all) of the school boards, I certainly think highly of my principal. Furthermore why are you dragging in professional growth into a discussion of salary? The same with the purpose of public schools. You are diverting the topic because you can't think of a sound rebuttal. You would rather attack character than discuss concepts and ideas.

This thread started with someone who didn't agree with the focus of an internal meeting. Teachers chimed in to say that principals only cared about what admin wanted to hear and didn't listen to them. Even when it was discussed that they could bring up change suggestions in a non-confrontational manner, they went on to say that it wasn't prudent to do anything except go with the flow regardless of whether or not it was helping students. It doesn't matter whether you like your principal or not. You are supporting these teachers who don't want to speak up to the principal about the effectiveness of internal meetings. You are agreeing with them that they have no power and in fact should not have power to make even internal meeting changes.

We now have a teacher shortage and still teachers are afraid to speak up. Teacher pay is on the increase all over the DMV allowing for better mobility. With all of this, why would teachers still not be willing to speak per their own expertise at an internal meeting on things that concern them directly? So what if the principal doesn't like what they say? Why would a teacher even want to stay somewhere where they can't even speak up at a meeting? It is you who are making teachers look bad. I am trying to empower them.

17:09 The reference to teachers blaming parents btw was also posted earlier in the thread when teachers were complaining that parents don't help them out. It wasn't a personal remark.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Exactly. Teachers blame parents for putting too much pressure on them, but then want to be called experts. Yet aren't willing to use their expertise for anything. So then why do I have to consider them experts? I'm happy to do so, but only if they are going to use their expertise to help children and not just their own salary.

And based on your post, you clearly aren't using your parental "expertise" to raise your own children.

Thanks for supporting the FACT that teachers can only do so much with YOUR children.

Happy New Year and much luck raising your kids.

Teachers are within their rights to discuss their own internal meetings and they have the power to discuss what is and isn't working. You have proven nothing except that teachers are afraid to speak up about anything and so just go along with the system and instead of working on making it better complain on media. You've also proven absolutely nothing about my own parental expertise.

Anonymous wrote:Exactly. Teachers blame parents for putting too much pressure on them, but then want to be called experts. Yet aren't willing to use their expertise for anything. So then why do I have to consider them experts? I'm happy to do so, but only if they are going to use their expertise to help children and not just their own salary.

And based on your post, you clearly aren't using your parental "expertise" to raise your own children.

Thanks for supporting the FACT that teachers can only do so much with YOUR children.

Happy New Year and much luck raising your kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And for more proof just go to the thread about kids not knowing where to get information to study and teachers not having textbooks that align with standards just below this one. The whole system is ineffective. And yet come budget time the only thing I hear teachers talking about is salary. Every Single Year. Can't speak up about meetings or ineffective teaching, but yet somehow they find their voice on salary. They are all over our school board budget meetings then.

Because teachers work to live. Salary is the over-riding factor. Duh! I am sure that it would be your primary factor, too, if you had to go to your Board or other entity head each year for salary funding. If the school systems are ineffective and do not deploy resources so that teachers are able to effectively and efficiently teach so that children learn, well, it makes sense that this would be a secondary concern. But everyone in the job market in the US wants to be paid. That is the way our democratic and capitalistic society works. If you want something else then you need to go to another country.

Also please understand that businesses in the private sector thrive for their product or expertise. They all want to be paid by their boss or even by themselves, but they understand they are providing a service and have to meet the needs of the people that are purchasing that service. They cause change by reflecting on this aspect of the businesses even when they are going against the grain of the higher ups. Teachers aren't paid any differently just because there is a school board. It is still about getting money from the people who want the product and service.

Wrong here on all fronts. The motivations of an elected school board are very much different than the board of directors for a corporation or a nonprofit. Can you look at some of the elected school boards in this area and say that they are truly concerned with what is happening in the schools? Really? Point out one, just one, school board in this area that is doing this good job. I don't think you can and I know you can't especially for the school system I teach in.

Additionally, your point about the needs of the people purchasing the service is making my point exactly. Those varied needs, represented by the different stakeholders, are not being addressed in the smaller marketplaces, meaning the geographic lines of a school and the demographics of the populations served by those schools. If they were then there would be much different allocations. There isn't any consensus amongst the stakeholders and so the needs of the children being served are being stepped over and stepped on and lost.

But frankly I think that you are more interested in the argument than the outcome. Certainly, if you think you could do better, then get certified and come join us. I'd love to see how long you last AND how interested you would not be (!) in your salary!

Well you don't seem to think highly of the school board, principals, and agree that teachers should first and foremost be interested in salary rather than professional growth. A job verses a career as people would often say. Why is it again that we should have public schools if all of these things are correct? You are just feeding the minds of the Trump supporters if all of this is true. There's nothing they wouldn't like better than to further dismantle schools.

??? You are experiencing some reading comprehension problems and projecting. While you are correct that I don't think well (at all) of the school boards, I certainly think highly of my principal. Furthermore why are you dragging in professional growth into a discussion of salary? The same with the purpose of public schools. You are diverting the topic because you can't think of a sound rebuttal. You would rather attack character than discuss concepts and ideas.

The purpose of public schools, by the way, is that our democracy and capitalistic society depend on an educated population. If we don't have an educated population then nothing about America will work.

Finally, while I am a public school teacher, I do support charter schools. I think they bring pressure to bear on the public system and that is a good thing. The District is a prime example of positive change wrought by the presence charter schools. While there have been some failures and I don't think that all the proper controls are in place to ensure that all the charters live up to necessary minimum requirements, the fact that they (and the voucher system) exist have caused significant positive change to the public school system in the District.

Of course, you sound like you like the insular, protectionist system, so I wonder what that says about you?

I stated earlier many times that I think teachers are responsible for discussing whether meetings are effective or ineffective themselves. This is not really something that the public should be involved in. They do not have the right to tell teachers what meetings are effective for their work. Which is in line with their opinion of themselves as professionals. I am not diverting the topic. Teachers want people to think of them highly but whenever people call for them to act like professionals they claim the system doesn't work for them to do so. The reference to money on my part was in retort to several other posters stating that they weren't paid enough to speak up. No system works for people to do so, even google I'm guessing. Every professional is supposed to act like a professional regardless of how much they are making. That's why there is a teacher's license. That's why there is a term whistleblower. Still, as indicated in the video I posted pages back, organizations do appreciate when solutions are found to run their organization better even if at first they aren't as accepting.

Anonymous wrote:I will be a dissent here. I've taught for almost 20 years in upper elementary. I think the testing and data is extremely helpful because I can target what my kids actually don't know and focus on firming up those concepts. I know so, so much more about where my kids are in terms of learning. I actually like the intermittent testing and found the I-Ready to be somewhat helpful so far.

I also like having flexibility to use my own materials. I sometimes use textbooks, sometimes build my own stuff, and sometimes get funding to purchase things. It's more work and it's difficult but I like being able to choose what I teach based on my kids' learning gaps (since I have the data to support this decision).

+1 for this. I also fully support the standardized testing process and the results that it shows. I do wish that we received more of the detailed data, and that we received it more quickly, but I think it is a good thing overall.

I am concerned about the loss of the textbooks, though, because at the middle school level at least we are seeing some significant declines in decoding and comprehension skills that I believe can be attributed in part to the lack of a cohesive ELA learning "system" for the lack of a better word. It is pretty stunning how quickly we are seeing the decline in our school district.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And for more proof just go to the thread about kids not knowing where to get information to study and teachers not having textbooks that align with standards just below this one. The whole system is ineffective. And yet come budget time the only thing I hear teachers talking about is salary. Every Single Year. Can't speak up about meetings or ineffective teaching, but yet somehow they find their voice on salary. They are all over our school board budget meetings then.

Because teachers work to live. Salary is the over-riding factor. Duh! I am sure that it would be your primary factor, too, if you had to go to your Board or other entity head each year for salary funding. If the school systems are ineffective and do not deploy resources so that teachers are able to effectively and efficiently teach so that children learn, well, it makes sense that this would be a secondary concern. But everyone in the job market in the US wants to be paid. That is the way our democratic and capitalistic society works. If you want something else then you need to go to another country.

Also please understand that businesses in the private sector thrive for their product or expertise. They all want to be paid by their boss or even by themselves, but they understand they are providing a service and have to meet the needs of the people that are purchasing that service. They cause change by reflecting on this aspect of the businesses even when they are going against the grain of the higher ups. Teachers aren't paid any differently just because there is a school board. It is still about getting money from the people who want the product and service.

Wrong here on all fronts. The motivations of an elected school board are very much different than the board of directors for a corporation or a nonprofit. Can you look at some of the elected school boards in this area and say that they are truly concerned with what is happening in the schools? Really? Point out one, just one, school board in this area that is doing this good job. I don't think you can and I know you can't especially for the school system I teach in.

Additionally, your point about the needs of the people purchasing the service is making my point exactly. Those varied needs, represented by the different stakeholders, are not being addressed in the smaller marketplaces, meaning the geographic lines of a school and the demographics of the populations served by those schools. If they were then there would be much different allocations. There isn't any consensus amongst the stakeholders and so the needs of the children being served are being stepped over and stepped on and lost.

But frankly I think that you are more interested in the argument than the outcome. Certainly, if you think you could do better, then get certified and come join us. I'd love to see how long you last AND how interested you would not be (!) in your salary!

Well you don't seem to think highly of the school board, principals, and agree that teachers should first and foremost be interested in salary rather than professional growth. A job verses a career as people would often say. Why is it again that we should have public schools if all of these things are correct? You are just feeding the minds of the Trump supporters if all of this is true. There's nothing they wouldn't like better than to further dismantle schools.

??? You are experiencing some reading comprehension problems and projecting. While you are correct that I don't think well (at all) of the school boards, I certainly think highly of my principal. Furthermore why are you dragging in professional growth into a discussion of salary? The same with the purpose of public schools. You are diverting the topic because you can't think of a sound rebuttal. You would rather attack character than discuss concepts and ideas.

The purpose of public schools, by the way, is that our democracy and capitalistic society depend on an educated population. If we don't have an educated population then nothing about America will work.

Finally, while I am a public school teacher, I do support charter schools. I think they bring pressure to bear on the public system and that is a good thing. The District is a prime example of positive change wrought by the presence charter schools. While there have been some failures and I don't think that all the proper controls are in place to ensure that all the charters live up to necessary minimum requirements, the fact that they (and the voucher system) exist have caused significant positive change to the public school system in the District.

Of course, you sound like you like the insular, protectionist system, so I wonder what that says about you?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And for more proof just go to the thread about kids not knowing where to get information to study and teachers not having textbooks that align with standards just below this one. The whole system is ineffective. And yet come budget time the only thing I hear teachers talking about is salary. Every Single Year. Can't speak up about meetings or ineffective teaching, but yet somehow they find their voice on salary. They are all over our school board budget meetings then.

Because teachers work to live. Salary is the over-riding factor. Duh! I am sure that it would be your primary factor, too, if you had to go to your Board or other entity head each year for salary funding. If the school systems are ineffective and do not deploy resources so that teachers are able to effectively and efficiently teach so that children learn, well, it makes sense that this would be a secondary concern. But everyone in the job market in the US wants to be paid. That is the way our democratic and capitalistic society works. If you want something else then you need to go to another country.

Also please understand that businesses in the private sector thrive for their product or expertise. They all want to be paid by their boss or even by themselves, but they understand they are providing a service and have to meet the needs of the people that are purchasing that service. They cause change by reflecting on this aspect of the businesses even when they are going against the grain of the higher ups. Teachers aren't paid any differently just because there is a school board. It is still about getting money from the people who want the product and service.

Wrong here on all fronts. The motivations of an elected school board are very much different than the board of directors for a corporation or a nonprofit. Can you look at some of the elected school boards in this area and say that they are truly concerned with what is happening in the schools? Really? Point out one, just one, school board in this area that is doing this good job. I don't think you can and I know you can't especially for the school system I teach in.

Additionally, your point about the needs of the people purchasing the service is making my point exactly. Those varied needs, represented by the different stakeholders, are not being addressed in the smaller marketplaces, meaning the geographic lines of a school and the demographics of the populations served by those schools. If they were then there would be much different allocations. There isn't any consensus amongst the stakeholders and so the needs of the children being served are being stepped over and stepped on and lost.

But frankly I think that you are more interested in the argument than the outcome. Certainly, if you think you could do better, then get certified and come join us. I'd love to see how long you last AND how interested you would not be (!) in your salary!

Well you don't seem to think highly of the school board, principals, and agree that teachers should first and foremost be interested in salary rather than professional growth. A job verses a career as people would often say. Why is it again that we should have public schools if all of these things are correct? You are just feeding the minds of the Trump supporters if all of this is true. There's nothing they wouldn't like better than to further dismantle schools.

I will be a dissent here. I've taught for almost 20 years in upper elementary. I think the testing and data is extremely helpful because I can target what my kids actually don't know and focus on firming up those concepts. I know so, so much more about where my kids are in terms of learning. I actually like the intermittent testing and found the I-Ready to be somewhat helpful so far.

I also like having flexibility to use my own materials. I sometimes use textbooks, sometimes build my own stuff, and sometimes get funding to purchase things. It's more work and it's difficult but I like being able to choose what I teach based on my kids' learning gaps (since I have the data to support this decision).

Anonymous wrote:I have come to the conclusion that it is intentionally designed to thwart progress by the elites. They don't want these immigrant kids to succeed. That doesn't fit their agenda. They want cheap, manual labor and they get it via an uneducated work force.

The liberal elites

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And for more proof just go to the thread about kids not knowing where to get information to study and teachers not having textbooks that align with standards just below this one. The whole system is ineffective. And yet come budget time the only thing I hear teachers talking about is salary. Every Single Year. Can't speak up about meetings or ineffective teaching, but yet somehow they find their voice on salary. They are all over our school board budget meetings then.

Because teachers work to live. Salary is the over-riding factor. Duh! I am sure that it would be your primary factor, too, if you had to go to your Board or other entity head each year for salary funding. If the school systems are ineffective and do not deploy resources so that teachers are able to effectively and efficiently teach so that children learn, well, it makes sense that this would be a secondary concern. But everyone in the job market in the US wants to be paid. That is the way our democratic and capitalistic society works. If you want something else then you need to go to another country.

Also please understand that businesses in the private sector thrive for their product or expertise. They all want to be paid by their boss or even by themselves, but they understand they are providing a service and have to meet the needs of the people that are purchasing that service. They cause change by reflecting on this aspect of the businesses even when they are going against the grain of the higher ups. Teachers aren't paid any differently just because there is a school board. It is still about getting money from the people who want the product and service.

Wrong here on all fronts. The motivations of an elected school board are very much different than the board of directors for a corporation or a nonprofit. Can you look at some of the elected school boards in this area and say that they are truly concerned with what is happening in the schools? Really? Point out one, just one, school board in this area that is doing this good job. I don't think you can and I know you can't especially for the school system I teach in.

Additionally, your point about the needs of the people purchasing the service is making my point exactly. Those varied needs, represented by the different stakeholders, are not being addressed in the smaller marketplaces, meaning the geographic lines of a school and the demographics of the populations served by those schools. If they were then there would be much different allocations. There isn't any consensus amongst the stakeholders and so the needs of the children being served are being stepped over and stepped on and lost.

But frankly I think that you are more interested in the argument than the outcome. Certainly, if you think you could do better, then get certified and come join us. I'd love to see how long you last AND how interested you would not be (!) in your salary!

Anonymous wrote:Exactly. Teachers blame parents for putting too much pressure on them, but then want to be called experts. Yet aren't willing to use their expertise for anything. So then why do I have to consider them experts? I'm happy to do so, but only if they are going to use their expertise to help children and not just their own salary.

We use our expertise in the classroom, but not to engage in futile windmill tilting and raging against the machine. Seriously -- protest is very politically dangerous (as in any occupation). And although in MD we do have tenure, any principal who wants to make life difficult for you could just start popping by every few days and documenting things you are doing wrong.

Anonymous wrote:
So a teacher making the argument that they need to be focused on their salary and job security then will need to rely on the true "customers" the parents and taxpayers to push the School Board for improvement. But whenever parents do this, they are slapped down by the NEA and told that they should leave education to the "experts." If you want to focus on your own well-being over the kids, fine, but first, "do no harm" and don't obstruct needed change in the system.

We teachers could argue and protest as much as we want, but the school districts will rarely listen to us.

Yes, parents have a lot more clout than teachers in opposing certain curricular initiatives.

Exactly. Teachers blame parents for putting too much pressure on them, but then want to be called experts. Yet aren't willing to use their expertise for anything. So then why do I have to consider them experts? I'm happy to do so, but only if they are going to use their expertise to help children and not just their own salary.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And for more proof just go to the thread about kids not knowing where to get information to study and teachers not having textbooks that align with standards just below this one. The whole system is ineffective. And yet come budget time the only thing I hear teachers talking about is salary. Every Single Year. Can't speak up about meetings or ineffective teaching, but yet somehow they find their voice on salary. They are all over our school board budget meetings then.

Because teachers work to live. Salary is the over-riding factor. Duh! I am sure that it would be your primary factor, too, if you had to go to your Board or other entity head each year for salary funding. If the school systems are ineffective and do not deploy resources so that teachers are able to effectively and efficiently teach so that children learn, well, it makes sense that this would be a secondary concern. But everyone in the job market in the US wants to be paid. That is the way our democratic and capitalistic society works. If you want something else then you need to go to another country.

Also please understand that businesses in the private sector thrive for their product or expertise. They all want to be paid by their boss or even by themselves, but they understand they are providing a service and have to meet the needs of the people that are purchasing that service. They cause change by reflecting on this aspect of the businesses even when they are going against the grain of the higher ups. Teachers aren't paid any differently just because there is a school board. It is still about getting money from the people who want the product and service.

So a teacher making the argument that they need to be focused on their salary and job security then will need to rely on the true "customers" the parents and taxpayers to push the School Board for improvement. But whenever parents do this, they are slapped down by the NEA and told that they should leave education to the "experts." If you want to focus on your own well-being over the kids, fine, but first, "do no harm" and don't obstruct needed change in the system.