Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just picture this dad and the kids, kicked back and relaxing after a busy day at work, school, activities, errand running. Then the Ominous Black Cloud walks through the door threatening to rain all over them......

+1

That's what I thought.

I'm not the OP, but in her defense, there are certain objective things that make it clear that they aren't as busy as they should be at school. Like grades. I simply can't imagine treating my kids to things like manicures (!) when they don't even do their homework every day. If the grades were good and it was just OP's perception of a messy house, then I might be more inclined to lean the other way.

+1. If the grades are bad, then something needs to change. Calling OP Ominous Black Cloud is unhelpful and mean. Worse, it undermines her by making her the problem instead of the grades.

Op is walking into her house and wanting everything to be magically done already. When it isn't done already, she gets into a snit and her husband takes the kids out of the house and goes to dinner..probably to give her some space.

Ominous Black Cloud may sound mean but I will about bet you that that is the way her family feels when she walks through the door. Her husband has been tasked with everything from cleaning the house, to making sure his kids brush their teeth, to buying their clothes, to making sure their snacks aren't "junk".....and when that doesn't all get done to Op's standards, Op gets into a snit. And all that complaining that she does serves to undermine any authority her husband has over the kids - she pretty much diminishes him down to the level of errant child.

To fix this, Op is going to need to approach her husband as a grown up rather than an unruly subordinate.

Nope. OP wants some of these things to have been started, not necessarily finished. Where did OP say “finish”? Everybody with middle and high school kids knows that waiting until 8pm for dinner and then starting homework and whatever else is too late. If her kids are watching cable and getting manicures at the mall until 8pm, that’s actually a problem.

But hey, go ahead and denigrate the one person who seems concerned about it.

if OP were concerned she wouldn't be coming home at 8 pm night after night.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just picture this dad and the kids, kicked back and relaxing after a busy day at work, school, activities, errand running. Then the Ominous Black Cloud walks through the door threatening to rain all over them......

+1

That's what I thought.

I'm not the OP, but in her defense, there are certain objective things that make it clear that they aren't as busy as they should be at school. Like grades. I simply can't imagine treating my kids to things like manicures (!) when they don't even do their homework every day. If the grades were good and it was just OP's perception of a messy house, then I might be more inclined to lean the other way.

+1. If the grades are bad, then something needs to change. Calling OP Ominous Black Cloud is unhelpful and mean. Worse, it undermines her by making her the problem instead of the grades.

Op is walking into her house and wanting everything to be magically done already. When it isn't done already, she gets into a snit and her husband takes the kids out of the house and goes to dinner..probably to give her some space.

Ominous Black Cloud may sound mean but I will about bet you that that is the way her family feels when she walks through the door. Her husband has been tasked with everything from cleaning the house, to making sure his kids brush their teeth, to buying their clothes, to making sure their snacks aren't "junk".....and when that doesn't all get done to Op's standards, Op gets into a snit. And all that complaining that she does serves to undermine any authority her husband has over the kids - she pretty much diminishes him down to the level of errant child.

To fix this, Op is going to need to approach her husband as a grown up rather than an unruly subordinate.

Nope. OP wants some of these things to have been started, not necessarily finished. Where did OP say “finish”? Everybody with middle and high school kids knows that waiting until 8pm for dinner and then starting homework and whatever else is too late. If her kids are watching cable and getting manicures at the mall until 8pm, that’s actually a problem.

But hey, go ahead and denigrate the one person who seems concerned about it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just picture this dad and the kids, kicked back and relaxing after a busy day at work, school, activities, errand running. Then the Ominous Black Cloud walks through the door threatening to rain all over them......

+1

That's what I thought.

I'm not the OP, but in her defense, there are certain objective things that make it clear that they aren't as busy as they should be at school. Like grades. I simply can't imagine treating my kids to things like manicures (!) when they don't even do their homework every day. If the grades were good and it was just OP's perception of a messy house, then I might be more inclined to lean the other way.

+1. If the grades are bad, then something needs to change. Calling OP Ominous Black Cloud is unhelpful and mean. Worse, it undermines her by making her the problem instead of the grades.

Op is walking into her house and wanting everything to be magically done already. When it isn't done already, she gets into a snit and her husband takes the kids out of the house and goes to dinner..probably to give her some space.

Ominous Black Cloud may sound mean but I will about bet you that that is the way her family feels when she walks through the door. Her husband has been tasked with everything from cleaning the house, to making sure his kids brush their teeth, to buying their clothes, to making sure their snacks aren't "junk".....and when that doesn't all get done to Op's standards, Op gets into a snit. And all that complaining that she does serves to undermine any authority her husband has over the kids - she pretty much diminishes him down to the level of errant child.

To fix this, Op is going to need to approach her husband as a grown up rather than an unruly subordinate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just picture this dad and the kids, kicked back and relaxing after a busy day at work, school, activities, errand running. Then the Ominous Black Cloud walks through the door threatening to rain all over them......

+1

That's what I thought.

I'm not the OP, but in her defense, there are certain objective things that make it clear that they aren't as busy as they should be at school. Like grades. I simply can't imagine treating my kids to things like manicures (!) when they don't even do their homework every day. If the grades were good and it was just OP's perception of a messy house, then I might be more inclined to lean the other way.

+1. If the grades are bad, then something needs to change. Calling OP Ominous Black Cloud is unhelpful and mean. Worse, it undermines her by making her the problem instead of the grades.

Anonymous wrote:You are just as responsible for how your kids behave as your husband.

I think OP and I are sister wives—I was married to this guy. Our situations were a little different, as XDH and I worked roughly equal hours. Also, my XDH only actively undermined our younger kid, after the eldest got into a top Ivy. I think he was threatened by both of them. Or something. I’m not sure even XDH knows why he did it. It seemed to go beyond “different values.”

It’s not so easy as saying, hey OP, you’re just as responsible, so step up your game.

People like OP’s DH and my XDH set up a “good cop, bad cop” situation where I was the OCD enforcer and XDH tried to be the BFF. So for example, when younger DC had D’s in a class, I told younger DC to study for a big test the next day—and XDH secretly texted younger DC not to bother (DC told me this little gem). XDH also smoked pot with younger DC and refused to help pay for DC’s ACT test prep. XDH left the house in the fourth quarter of DC’s junior year and made DC move his mattress the night before an AP test. There’s so much more, but you get the picture.

XDH gaslighted me constantly. Because I told DC to work harder at school, XDH told DC that I was “obsessed” (a word he kept repeating) with DC’s grades and constantly tried to paint me as unreasonable.

Try having any kind of influence on your kid when your DH gaslights you. Plus DC as a normal teenager sometimes wanted to hear XDH instead of my harder recommendations. My life was miserable for about 4 years, as I navigated between XDH and DC, but I stayed with it partially because I was terrified of DC living with only XDH for even part of the time. There’s a good ending: after XDH left to have his midlife crisis, DC chose to stay with me for 90% of senior year and complained to me constantly about XDH’s lack of structure and poor role modeling. But in the thick of it, I was often powerless, as is OP, and I totally get it.

Interestingly, I am thinking of divorce and asking him to take the kids, I am so not happy with their behavior.

This is so sad. You sound ready to consign your kids away. They're still kids, and they can change, but they dont seem to have motivation. In part, it doesnt seem like you've earned their respect, either--and yes, it does work both ways.

I do agree that both parents need to be on board with parenting.

Your kids have no motivation to meet basic standards. Cut their privileges off like broken nails. If you don't they will resent you for sheltering them.

Sounds to me like downsizing would be one practical way to address some of these problems. Your kids don’t need manicures and private coaching— it sounds to me like your household spending is out of control and you’ve become a slave to your big paycheck. In that situation, you’re trapped.

Anonymous wrote:I’m a working mom, a single mom at that, but my kids are awesome. Healthy, kind, straight A students. Even if you work hard, if you have kids you need to parent them.

+1 It can be done!

I’m a working mom, a single mom at that, but my kids are awesome. Healthy, kind, straight A students. Even if you work hard, if you have kids you need to parent them.

OP i read all 10 pages and, in general, i agree with other posters. here are my thoughts

1) your biggest problem is not that "house is a mess". i find it strange to focus on that. your biggest problem is that your children are failing academically. that is much more difficult to turn around and can have much more devastating consequences than a bunch of dirty laundry and shelves that haven't been dusted.

btw, tutors can't solve that problem. i used to tutor an extremely wealth student (parents were foreign billionaires; he lived in US on his own so he was essentially neglected despite ton of help and money). i was an ok kid and we were able to make notable short-term progress in a given course, but that made no difference whatsoever for his overall trajectory. he knew he had a lot of money and he simply didn't care. tutors can't make your kids care (not long-term). knowledge and discipline can't be bought. as a side, those short pants on your son reminded me of him - a student who had standby chauffeur and live-in cook (there was a wedding-like menu of fresh foods and meals every day on a giant table) did not have a working printer, or a pencil sharpener. he had everything except for what he needed.

2) your husband works full time. he probably makes at least 100k, more 150k. if so, he is professionally speaking pretty successful. few men make that much. just because you have some insane career doesn't mean that everyone is a loser.

3) your husband is not your servant. you don't get to order him what to do with kids. if you don't like his parenting, then you need to step and do what is necessary. you don't just hand in a list o demands because, oh, you make so much money. that won't work even with paid help, much less with your own family.

3) if you at least you were passionate about your job i would understand why you need to spend so much time on it. but you say you only do it for the money. but not only you don't need this money, it is positively ruining your family and your life. you need to change jobs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't read the whole thread but here is my story. I work in biglaw and our idea was that I would try for partner and DH would SAHD. But after a couple of years of this we both realized that we were headed down the road to what you described. I stepped back (am now an of counsel), DH went back to work, we hired a cleaning lady and a part time nanny. The house is clean now, the kids get good grades, and we even make dinner a few nights a week. And btw DH was diagnosed with ADHD, is now on meds, and doing much better. Yes, I don't have the great career. But it was worth it.

You have to decide what matters most to you.

The thing is, her husband is NOT a SAHD. He has a full time job. She seems to be expecting her husband to do the work of a SAHP, while also holding down a full time job. That's an expectation we're supposed to be walking away from. I know this is a DCUM phrase, but I've never used it before- OP, you sound unhinged. Really, I think you need a week away from your family. Go away for a week to visit other family, or a yoga retreat or something. I think they could probably use a break from you as well. Don't come back expecting that they will have cleaned the house and changed all the annoying habits while you were away. Instead, reflect on what you love and value about each of them. Come back ready to communicate with your husband and come up with a parenting style that works for both of you. Even though you work more, you should be in charge of some things (dental hygiene among them.)

I think the pp and her spouse identified things that weren't working for their family, took steps to change things, and found an effective solution. She isn't trashing her DH, she's saying that what they thought would work didn't work.

I am the original pp and I didn't take this response as directed at me, but rather the OP. I actually agree that what comes across is that the OP is expecting her DH to do the work of a SAHD, when he isn't one. And she doesn't seem to value his career (I have been guilty of this and I recognize the same in OPs tone). Parenting is hard work and unfortunately some kids are harder to parent than others. Kids need present parents, not more stuff. I wish someone got it through my head when I thought I could do it all.

I think the bit about him working full time but only having 5 productive work hours in each of his work days was pretty condescending. I don't think that Op respects her husband very much.

OP hasn't come back, has she?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't read the whole thread but here is my story. I work in biglaw and our idea was that I would try for partner and DH would SAHD. But after a couple of years of this we both realized that we were headed down the road to what you described. I stepped back (am now an of counsel), DH went back to work, we hired a cleaning lady and a part time nanny. The house is clean now, the kids get good grades, and we even make dinner a few nights a week. And btw DH was diagnosed with ADHD, is now on meds, and doing much better. Yes, I don't have the great career. But it was worth it.

You have to decide what matters most to you.

The thing is, her husband is NOT a SAHD. He has a full time job. She seems to be expecting her husband to do the work of a SAHP, while also holding down a full time job. That's an expectation we're supposed to be walking away from. I know this is a DCUM phrase, but I've never used it before- OP, you sound unhinged. Really, I think you need a week away from your family. Go away for a week to visit other family, or a yoga retreat or something. I think they could probably use a break from you as well. Don't come back expecting that they will have cleaned the house and changed all the annoying habits while you were away. Instead, reflect on what you love and value about each of them. Come back ready to communicate with your husband and come up with a parenting style that works for both of you. Even though you work more, you should be in charge of some things (dental hygiene among them.)

I think the pp and her spouse identified things that weren't working for their family, took steps to change things, and found an effective solution. She isn't trashing her DH, she's saying that what they thought would work didn't work.

I am the original pp and I didn't take this response as directed at me, but rather the OP. I actually agree that what comes across is that the OP is expecting her DH to do the work of a SAHD, when he isn't one. And she doesn't seem to value his career (I have been guilty of this and I recognize the same in OPs tone). Parenting is hard work and unfortunately some kids are harder to parent than others. Kids need present parents, not more stuff. I wish someone got it through my head when I thought I could do it all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't read the whole thread but here is my story. I work in biglaw and our idea was that I would try for partner and DH would SAHD. But after a couple of years of this we both realized that we were headed down the road to what you described. I stepped back (am now an of counsel), DH went back to work, we hired a cleaning lady and a part time nanny. The house is clean now, the kids get good grades, and we even make dinner a few nights a week. And btw DH was diagnosed with ADHD, is now on meds, and doing much better. Yes, I don't have the great career. But it was worth it.

You have to decide what matters most to you.

The thing is, her husband is NOT a SAHD. He has a full time job. She seems to be expecting her husband to do the work of a SAHP, while also holding down a full time job. That's an expectation we're supposed to be walking away from. I know this is a DCUM phrase, but I've never used it before- OP, you sound unhinged. Really, I think you need a week away from your family. Go away for a week to visit other family, or a yoga retreat or something. I think they could probably use a break from you as well. Don't come back expecting that they will have cleaned the house and changed all the annoying habits while you were away. Instead, reflect on what you love and value about each of them. Come back ready to communicate with your husband and come up with a parenting style that works for both of you. Even though you work more, you should be in charge of some things (dental hygiene among them.)

I think the pp and her spouse identified things that weren't working for their family, took steps to change things, and found an effective solution. She isn't trashing her DH, she's saying that what they thought would work didn't work.