My DC managed, in the before time, to tour all except Dartmouth before deciding where to go early. In DC's young adult eyes - there were lots of significant differences. An

The actual tours were quite influential so that is something to consider. Have mixed feeling about that. I think my favorite was undermined by a tour on the wrong day at the wrong time and another top school had a bad presentation and very meh tour which was a negative influence.

Cutthroat or competition against oneself to do better each time and to grow ?

Competiton is a major explanation for what makes a great university and college - because the students have high expectations for themselves. Competition does not need to be cutthroat at all. It means working harder each time and to learn from one's mistakes and successes; and to learn from fellow students.

However, cutthroat is not a dirty word. That too provides important training and discipline. it crucially prepares a student for the real world. Very valuable experience and training in how to handle competition and 'cutthroat behavior'. Just as anyone working in the Washington and London political and economic circuits.

Further, with tuition sky-high, the pressure on students is enormous; they can't be blamed. My experience was that most students were decent and many were very helpful, indeed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After HYP, i think everything else is both a crap shoot and based on what the kid wants. I would never, for example, think, "Oh, they went to xx Ivy because they didn't get into xx Ivy"...or if that were the case, I wouldn't interpret it as one being better than the other. It really is such a crap shoot in the decisions process. I would regard all of them as about the same.

I would think that when looking at HYP vs the others. Lets be real. Most kids at the other ivies wanted to go to HYP and either applied ED to a lower ivy to maximize their chances so they didn't even apply to HYP or just applied and didn't get in. But I would never think for example that a Brown kid definitely didn't make it to Columbia.

Yes, that's why I said "After HYP". At that point, who knows why one accepts and the other doesn't.

I think ED is significant. Each student can only choose to apply early to one and only one ivy league school. But only HYP are non-binding EA as opposed to binding ED. THis further skews early applications to those three as they are non binding and 17 year old are not not ready early in senior year to be sure hwa they want - even among the ivy league choices.

At the undergraduate level, Dartmouth and Brown probably provide better experiences due to being smaller schools and less cutthroat. I'm sure plenty of students choose either vice versa.

But generally as whole universities, Columbia and Penn have overshadowed Dartmouth and Brown for some number of years. At the undergraduate level, the former are known for being cutthroat and rigorous.

Columbia resurged with the resurgence of NYC. Penn is doing the same somewhat to Philadelphia. Being in large cities has definitely helped with a shift to urban campuses and international students want to spend college in NYC versus some cornfield.

Penn rivals Harvard for best business school, and has a top 3 medical school. Columbia excels across the board including law, etc.

Cornell as a whole university has easily surpassed Dartmouth/Brown, due to its STEM research focus.

More proof Dartmouth is delusional.

There are plenty of brilliant students at all of these colleges. Once you are in the classroom, making friends, participating in activities, taking part-time jobs, the students have no time to ruminate on these micro-distinctions about prestige.

I went to Columbia College as an undergraduate and had many friends at Harvard, Yale, Penn, and Cornell, and all of us were very busy with our classes and other schedules, none of these micro-distinctions mattered or even entered our minds. Its is the effort and passion you invest during your time at the school which matters.

After graduation, at Oxford University, I found the same thing among my friends who were at the different colleges at that university : effort and passion were/are what matters.

Anonymous wrote:Was speaking with DC's GC last week and she seemed to insinuate that somehow Columbia and Penn are better ivies than Brown, Dartmouth and Cornell. Maybe I find this ludicrous bc I am a Dartmouth grad, but I have always been under the impression that people think of all the ivies outside of HYP as roughly the same. Or at least all of the non-HYP ivies other than Cornell are seen as roughly the same. Is this accurate or is the GC's perception more accurate?

Just curious about what people think nowadays, I know this has no practical significance whatsoever.

Yes, outside H, every one of the ivies is seen as an adopted child of Ivy that no one really wants to go to. People go there because they couldn't go anywhere else.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Descriptors like cutthroat and striver are not bigoted. Talk to your therapist about why you think they are.

Talk to your high school English teacher about how “striver” is “pejorative” but other word choices, like “strong work ethic” are not.

Talk to a friend, if you have any, about why you think Jews, Asians, or anybody at one school more than another school, is “cutthroat.”

You seem like a real gem, and real smart to boot. Our families should get together for a barbecue.

How insufferable, pest-like and desperate are you in real life? At Chicago, we’d say you’re acting very “that kid”.

Because indulging stereotypes of Jews and Asians as “cutthroat strivers” is really cool and great at Chicago? Doubt it very much. At Columbia we’d call you a bigot.

Clearly the people insulting you—and my posts weren’t the worst—have gotten under your skin. As they should.

Please cite a source. My husband is Jewish and I've never known cutthroat and striver to be Jew-exclusive epithets. As for Penn, it's currently over 50% Jewish and Asian, which has certainly impacted the overall vibe. Many such grubby tiger cubs.

"Grubby"? Talk about anti-semitic stereotypes.

Americans are so pathetically anti-academics and pro-mediocrity that they find highly competent, intelligent and academically ambitious kids to be "grubby".

How is striving for a better life a bad thing?

Of course, if these kids were competing and "striving" for a football scholarship or a place in the Olympics, they wouldn't be grubby anymore, they would be American role models.

But striving in academics is "grubby", because it means middle-class kids are working hard to take the jobs and place in society for the upper, generationally wealthy class.

Ivy tiers:
T1: Harvard Yale Princeton
T2: Columbia Penn
T3: Brown Dartmouth Cornell

Columbia has had the more selective admissions, after Harvard for the past few years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Descriptors like cutthroat and striver are not bigoted. Talk to your therapist about why you think they are.

Talk to your high school English teacher about how “striver” is “pejorative” but other word choices, like “strong work ethic” are not.

Talk to a friend, if you have any, about why you think Jews, Asians, or anybody at one school more than another school, is “cutthroat.”

You seem like a real gem, and real smart to boot. Our families should get together for a barbecue.

How insufferable, pest-like and desperate are you in real life? At Chicago, we’d say you’re acting very “that kid”.

Because indulging stereotypes of Jews and Asians as “cutthroat strivers” is really cool and great at Chicago? Doubt it very much. At Columbia we’d call you a bigot.

Clearly the people insulting you—and my posts weren’t the worst—have gotten under your skin. As they should.

Please cite a source. My husband is Jewish and I've never known cutthroat and striver to be Jew-exclusive epithets. As for Penn, it's currently over 50% Jewish and Asian, which has certainly impacted the overall vibe. Many such grubby tiger cubs.

What exactly do you mean by this? Enough with your veiled insults, just spit it out.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Descriptors like cutthroat and striver are not bigoted. Talk to your therapist about why you think they are.

Talk to your high school English teacher about how “striver” is “pejorative” but other word choices, like “strong work ethic” are not.

Talk to a friend, if you have any, about why you think Jews, Asians, or anybody at one school more than another school, is “cutthroat.”

You seem like a real gem, and real smart to boot. Our families should get together for a barbecue.

Penn’s rep is well known. Some types want that, others are repelled.

I'm still reeling from the poster who used the word "bigotted." Penn failed to teach her how to spell, and apparently she's eaten too many cheesesteaks to reach out and avail of spell-check. Sad!

Said the poster typing in his boxers in his parents’ basement under a naked light bulb.

So somebody called you bigotted not bigoted? That makes all the difference, you must actually be a fine human
being.

Not. Get a life. You seem like a complete loser.

I love a good insult as much as the next person, but these are kind of lame.

Work on your material, come back in a year or two, and let's see if you've upped your game. Because right now you're flailing in every which direction, and all it does is underscore than Penn is full of thin-skinned strivers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Descriptors like cutthroat and striver are not bigoted. Talk to your therapist about why you think they are.

Talk to your high school English teacher about how “striver” is “pejorative” but other word choices, like “strong work ethic” are not.

Talk to a friend, if you have any, about why you think Jews, Asians, or anybody at one school more than another school, is “cutthroat.”

You seem like a real gem, and real smart to boot. Our families should get together for a barbecue.

How insufferable, pest-like and desperate are you in real life? At Chicago, we’d say you’re acting very “that kid”.

Because indulging stereotypes of Jews and Asians as “cutthroat strivers” is really cool and great at Chicago? Doubt it very much. At Columbia we’d call you a bigot.

Clearly the people insulting you—and my posts weren’t the worst—have gotten under your skin. As they should.

Please cite a source. My husband is Jewish and I've never known cutthroat and striver to be Jew-exclusive epithets. As for Penn, it's currently over 50% Jewish and Asian, which has certainly impacted the overall vibe. Many such grubby tiger cubs.

So a Chicago grad with a Jewish husband. You just outed yourself, so hope you’re proud of your posts here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Descriptors like cutthroat and striver are not bigoted. Talk to your therapist about why you think they are.

Talk to your high school English teacher about how “striver” is “pejorative” but other word choices, like “strong work ethic” are not.

Talk to a friend, if you have any, about why you think Jews, Asians, or anybody at one school more than another school, is “cutthroat.”

You seem like a real gem, and real smart to boot. Our families should get together for a barbecue.

How insufferable, pest-like and desperate are you in real life? At Chicago, we’d say you’re acting very “that kid”.

Because indulging stereotypes of Jews and Asians as “cutthroat strivers” is really cool and great at Chicago? Doubt it very much. At Columbia we’d call you a bigot.

Clearly the people insulting you—and my posts weren’t the worst—have gotten under your skin. As they should.

Please cite a source. My husband is Jewish and I've never known cutthroat and striver to be Jew-exclusive epithets. As for Penn, it's currently over 50% Jewish and Asian, which has certainly impacted the overall vibe. Many such grubby tiger cubs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Descriptors like cutthroat and striver are not bigoted. Talk to your therapist about why you think they are.

Talk to your high school English teacher about how “striver” is “pejorative” but other word choices, like “strong work ethic” are not.

Talk to a friend, if you have any, about why you think Jews, Asians, or anybody at one school more than another school, is “cutthroat.”

You seem like a real gem, and real smart to boot. Our families should get together for a barbecue.

Penn’s rep is well known. Some types want that, others are repelled.

I'm still reeling from the poster who used the word "bigotted." Penn failed to teach her how to spell, and apparently she's eaten too many cheesesteaks to reach out and avail of spell-check. Sad!

Said the poster typing in his boxers in his parents’ basement under a naked light bulb.

So somebody called you bigotted not bigoted? That makes all the difference, you must actually be a fine human
being.

Not. Get a life. You seem like a complete loser.