Anonymous wrote:DC resident and parent who taught in an international school in Singapore before coming here.

I really wish that DC public schools would get serious about language immersion for languages other than Spanish or throw in the towel.

YuYing, the Chinese immersion program without a Chinese-speaking head or kids. Good Lord, what a joke. You can say it in one post, or 14 pages worth, one thread or many.

+1.

Hi from Hong Kong where our kids attend an American-curriculum international school with daily Mandarin (despite Hong Kong being a predominantly Cantonese speaking city). Thought I’d mention some of our experiences as they may be relevant.

Kids have daily Chinese lessons at our school and are divided into two sections: “Mandarin near native (MNN)” speakers and "Mandarin as a second language(MSL)“. Mandarin is required from K-4 through Grade 5, and after that becomes an elective class. As the kids get into high school they are streamed into different sections of MNN or MSL or 1-2-3-4-5 (and higher for the MNN). MNN kids are predominantly two-parent Mandarin or Cantonese speaking households or one-parent Mandarin speaking (with outside tutors) and MSL are two-parent English speakers.

The “average” kids in the Native Speaker stream (MNN 3) are considered ready for AP Mandarin tests as early as their freshman year in high school, though they usually take the test much later. The MSL kids in the top two streams also have a very high pass rate for the AP Mandarin test, though they usually don’t get to that level of proficiency until their Junior or Senior years. I don’t know if AP Mandarin would be considered ‘fluency’ but it’s a baseline that might compare with Yu Ying once they get to that level.

Anecdotally, there was a family who was in Hong Kong for four years and they just moved to the American School in Paris. I asked them the other day how the switch was going from Mandarin to French and they said “we’ve learned more French in one year than we did with four years of Mandarin”. I asked if why and they said “With French they can just ‘sound it out’ if they don’t quite get it, and many of the words are similar enough to English spellings that they can get the gist. With Mandarin it is binary—right or wrong—you get it or you are just staring at the page clueless.

Agree. I have yet to find a corpus of academic literature making the case that the prized "cognitive boost" in children can't be found in an accessible area of a monolingual middle-class American life, one that doesn't come at the expense of foundational academics in English.

Anonymous wrote:I wish that the YY parents who live around us would have invested in our rising IB school in NE (like we have) instead of running w/the hobby of immersion denial.

The PP who talked about studying Spanish in Peru in college, but losing most of her language skills later, nailed it. If adults don't have a good reason to use a language they studied for years as young people, speaking skills fade away. That's why the ABCs on these threads raising their kids to speak their dialects to communicate with family will get the last laugh. They take jabs from parents who don't speak any language but English, but they're not wrong.

I find it interesting to compare this YY thread to those 5 or 6 years back (when we turned down a spot). The chaos and arrival of a big high needs Latino population at DCI w/out academic tracking but with tone deaf admins has woken some of the immersion parents up. They're getting to grips with the reality that this particular charter experiment ain't going as planned.

I agree. In theory, immersion school sounds wonderful. But when you really think about what it will mean that you can't support the language at home, it seems like wasted effort that could have been better spent elsewhere.

I wish that the YY parents who live around us would have invested in our rising IB school in NE (like we have) instead of running w/the hobby of immersion denial.

The PP who talked about studying Spanish in Peru in college, but losing most of her language skills later, nailed it. If adults don't have a good reason to use a language they studied for years as young people, speaking skills fade away. That's why the ABCs on these threads raising their kids to speak their dialects to communicate with family will get the last laugh. They take jabs from parents who don't speak any language but English, but they're not wrong.

I find it interesting to compare this YY thread to those 5 or 6 years back (when we turned down a spot). The chaos and arrival of a big high needs Latino population at DCI w/out academic tracking but with tone deaf admins has woken some of the immersion parents up. They're getting to grips with the reality that this particular charter experiment ain't going as planned.

DC resident and parent who taught in an international school in Singapore before coming here.

I really wish that DC public schools would get serious about language immersion for languages other than Spanish or throw in the towel.

YuYing, the Chinese immersion program without a Chinese-speaking head or kids. Good Lord, what a joke. You can say it in one post, or 14 pages worth, one thread or many.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great, perfect fluency isn't the sole goal of parents who put their kids in language immersion, and there's a cognitive benefit from being able to learn and switch between two different languages.

So how about actually teaching the YY kids to speak the language halfway decently to kill two birds with one stone? It's not as though parents couldn't be incentivized to help ensure that their kids speak well.

I can't see how much understanding of a culture kicks in when local Chinese immigrants can't be persuaded to put in for the YY lottery almost to a parent. What you hear asked in low SES DC Chinese immigrant circles is "Isn't that school for black kids and white people who adopt babies from China? We don't know Chinese families who use it. We've heard that the head doesn't speak Chinese."

Maybe the weirdest of the weirdos are in the DCPC universe.

YY gave up on outreach to the "racist" DC ethnic community a long time ago, back around 2010. The program was a tough sell to the ethnic community and the YY board and admins decided they they didn't need to attract ordinary DC Chinese immigrants once the WL materialized and grew. Without a principal who speaks good Chinese, and a curriculum that works for native speakers, outreach wouldn't work anyway. This helps explain why the kids' Mandarin generally isn't good, and nobody much cares. It's too bad actually because injecting some competition into the Chinese program and improving the relationship with the ethnic community wouldn't have hurt. I'm betting that they will rethink the arrangement once the principal announces that she's leaving, and not so great Int Baccalaureate Diploma exam results have been rolling in for a few years.

What could outreach possibly do? From what you say it sounds like these people wouldn't be interested in a school with black kids anyway. That's the picture you're painting.

Breaking down racial barriers requires a smart strategy, determination, resources and hard work over time in any context, but of course it can be done. I'm an ethnic Chinese dad who's raising my kids to speak my dialect fluently. I've spent half my career happily working for AA women lawmakers!

This makes zero sense. Good for you that you're ok with your job. I seriously wish you'd get a more productive hobby.

+100.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great, perfect fluency isn't the sole goal of parents who put their kids in language immersion, and there's a cognitive benefit from being able to learn and switch between two different languages.

So how about actually teaching the YY kids to speak the language halfway decently to kill two birds with one stone? It's not as though parents couldn't be incentivized to help ensure that their kids speak well.

I can't see how much understanding of a culture kicks in when local Chinese immigrants can't be persuaded to put in for the YY lottery almost to a parent. What you hear asked in low SES DC Chinese immigrant circles is "Isn't that school for black kids and white people who adopt babies from China? We don't know Chinese families who use it. We've heard that the head doesn't speak Chinese."

Maybe the weirdest of the weirdos are in the DCPC universe.

YY gave up on outreach to the "racist" DC ethnic community a long time ago, back around 2010. The program was a tough sell to the ethnic community and the YY board and admins decided they they didn't need to attract ordinary DC Chinese immigrants once the WL materialized and grew. Without a principal who speaks good Chinese, and a curriculum that works for native speakers, outreach wouldn't work anyway. This helps explain why the kids' Mandarin generally isn't good, and nobody much cares. It's too bad actually because injecting some competition into the Chinese program and improving the relationship with the ethnic community wouldn't have hurt. I'm betting that they will rethink the arrangement once the principal announces that she's leaving, and not so great Int Baccalaureate Diploma exam results have been rolling in for a few years.

What could outreach possibly do? From what you say it sounds like these people wouldn't be interested in a school with black kids anyway. That's the picture you're painting.

Most Chinese immigrants who are determined to have the best schools and a strong Chinese community seek out Montgomery county. In DC it seems like we have more interracial couples with one Chinese parent, ABCs who see their kids as American kids first, and first-generation Chinese who are happy to leave Chinese culture behind.

More Chinese immigrants are staying in DC schools every year, at least for elementary. You have to be really assimilated to see your kids as "American first," 3rd generation+. Nobody raised in an an extended Chinese people where a dialect is still spoke is happy to leave Chinese culture behind. Family members always find something to love, be it language, dance, food, religious practices, the work ethnic, Chinese literature, history, calligraphy, whatever. I've never met an ABC who expressed pride in their kids not speaking their dialect well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great, perfect fluency isn't the sole goal of parents who put their kids in language immersion, and there's a cognitive benefit from being able to learn and switch between two different languages.

So how about actually teaching the YY kids to speak the language halfway decently to kill two birds with one stone? It's not as though parents couldn't be incentivized to help ensure that their kids speak well.

I can't see how much understanding of a culture kicks in when local Chinese immigrants can't be persuaded to put in for the YY lottery almost to a parent. What you hear asked in low SES DC Chinese immigrant circles is "Isn't that school for black kids and white people who adopt babies from China? We don't know Chinese families who use it. We've heard that the head doesn't speak Chinese."

Maybe the weirdest of the weirdos are in the DCPC universe.

YY gave up on outreach to the "racist" DC ethnic community a long time ago, back around 2010. The program was a tough sell to the ethnic community and the YY board and admins decided they they didn't need to attract ordinary DC Chinese immigrants once the WL materialized and grew. Without a principal who speaks good Chinese, and a curriculum that works for native speakers, outreach wouldn't work anyway. This helps explain why the kids' Mandarin generally isn't good, and nobody much cares. It's too bad actually because injecting some competition into the Chinese program and improving the relationship with the ethnic community wouldn't have hurt. I'm betting that they will rethink the arrangement once the principal announces that she's leaving, and not so great Int Baccalaureate Diploma exam results have been rolling in for a few years.

What could outreach possibly do? From what you say it sounds like these people wouldn't be interested in a school with black kids anyway. That's the picture you're painting.

Breaking down racial barriers requires a smart strategy, determination, resources and hard work over time in any context, but of course it can be done. I'm an ethnic Chinese dad who's raising my kids to speak my dialect fluently. I've spent half my career happily working for AA women lawmakers!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great, perfect fluency isn't the sole goal of parents who put their kids in language immersion, and there's a cognitive benefit from being able to learn and switch between two different languages.

So how about actually teaching the YY kids to speak the language halfway decently to kill two birds with one stone? It's not as though parents couldn't be incentivized to help ensure that their kids speak well.

I can't see how much understanding of a culture kicks in when local Chinese immigrants can't be persuaded to put in for the YY lottery almost to a parent. What you hear asked in low SES DC Chinese immigrant circles is "Isn't that school for black kids and white people who adopt babies from China? We don't know Chinese families who use it. We've heard that the head doesn't speak Chinese."

Maybe the weirdest of the weirdos are in the DCPC universe.

YY gave up on outreach to the "racist" DC ethnic community a long time ago, back around 2010. The program was a tough sell to the ethnic community and the YY board and admins decided they they didn't need to attract ordinary DC Chinese immigrants once the WL materialized and grew. Without a principal who speaks good Chinese, and a curriculum that works for native speakers, outreach wouldn't work anyway. This helps explain why the kids' Mandarin generally isn't good, and nobody much cares. It's too bad actually because injecting some competition into the Chinese program and improving the relationship with the ethnic community wouldn't have hurt. I'm betting that they will rethink the arrangement once the principal announces that she's leaving, and not so great Int Baccalaureate Diploma exam results have been rolling in for a few years.

What could outreach possibly do? From what you say it sounds like these people wouldn't be interested in a school with black kids anyway. That's the picture you're painting.

Most Chinese immigrants who are determined to have the best schools and a strong Chinese community seek out Montgomery county. In DC it seems like we have more interracial couples with one Chinese parent, ABCs who see their kids as American kids first, and first-generation Chinese who are happy to leave Chinese culture behind.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great, perfect fluency isn't the sole goal of parents who put their kids in language immersion, and there's a cognitive benefit from being able to learn and switch between two different languages.

So how about actually teaching the YY kids to speak the language halfway decently to kill two birds with one stone? It's not as though parents couldn't be incentivized to help ensure that their kids speak well.

I can't see how much understanding of a culture kicks in when local Chinese immigrants can't be persuaded to put in for the YY lottery almost to a parent. What you hear asked in low SES DC Chinese immigrant circles is "Isn't that school for black kids and white people who adopt babies from China? We don't know Chinese families who use it. We've heard that the head doesn't speak Chinese."

Maybe the weirdest of the weirdos are in the DCPC universe.

YY gave up on outreach to the "racist" DC ethnic community a long time ago, back around 2010. The program was a tough sell to the ethnic community and the YY board and admins decided they they didn't need to attract ordinary DC Chinese immigrants once the WL materialized and grew. Without a principal who speaks good Chinese, and a curriculum that works for native speakers, outreach wouldn't work anyway. This helps explain why the kids' Mandarin generally isn't good, and nobody much cares. It's too bad actually because injecting some competition into the Chinese program and improving the relationship with the ethnic community wouldn't have hurt. I'm betting that they will rethink the arrangement once the principal announces that she's leaving, and not so great Int Baccalaureate Diploma exam results have been rolling in for a few years.

What could outreach possibly do? From what you say it sounds like these people wouldn't be interested in a school with black kids anyway. That's the picture you're painting.

Anonymous wrote:Great, perfect fluency isn't the sole goal of parents who put their kids in language immersion, and there's a cognitive benefit from being able to learn and switch between two different languages.

So how about actually teaching the YY kids to speak the language halfway decently to kill two birds with one stone? It's not as though parents couldn't be incentivized to help ensure that their kids speak well.

I can't see how much understanding of a culture kicks in when local Chinese immigrants can't be persuaded to put in for the YY lottery almost to a parent. What you hear asked in low SES DC Chinese immigrant circles is "Isn't that school for black kids and white people who adopt babies from China? We don't know Chinese families who use it. We've heard that the head doesn't speak Chinese."

Maybe the weirdest of the weirdos are in the DCPC universe.

YY gave up on outreach to the "racist" DC ethnic community a long time ago, back around 2010. The program was a tough sell to the ethnic community and the YY board and admins decided they they didn't need to attract ordinary DC Chinese immigrants once the WL materialized and grew. Without a principal who speaks good Chinese, and a curriculum that works for native speakers, outreach wouldn't work anyway. This helps explain why the kids' Mandarin generally isn't good, and nobody much cares. It's too bad actually because injecting some competition into the Chinese program and improving the relationship with the ethnic community wouldn't have hurt. I'm betting that they will rethink the arrangement once the principal announces that she's leaving, and not so great Int Baccalaureate Diploma exam results have been rolling in for a few years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great, perfect fluency isn't the sole goal of parents who put their kids in language immersion, and there's a cognitive benefit from being able to learn and switch between two different languages.

So how about actually teaching the YY kids to speak the language halfway decently to kill two birds with one stone? It's not as though parents couldn't be incentivized to help ensure that their kids speak well.

I can't see how much understanding of a culture kicks in when local Chinese immigrants can't be persuaded to put in for the YY lottery almost to a parent. What you hear asked in low SES DC Chinese immigrant circles is "Isn't that school for black kids and white people who adopt babies from China? We don't know Chinese families who use it. We've heard that the head doesn't speak Chinese."

Maybe the weirdest of the weirdos are in the DCPC universe.

So what would you propose to convince them, then? Give Chinese immigrants preference to increase the numbers? Kick all the black kids out?

I honestly feel that is what they would like. Agree that language preference would be nice but, that's not YY's fault.

Anonymous wrote:Great, perfect fluency isn't the sole goal of parents who put their kids in language immersion, and there's a cognitive benefit from being able to learn and switch between two different languages.

So how about actually teaching the YY kids to speak the language halfway decently to kill two birds with one stone? It's not as though parents couldn't be incentivized to help ensure that their kids speak well.

I can't see how much understanding of a culture kicks in when local Chinese immigrants can't be persuaded to put in for the YY lottery almost to a parent. What you hear asked in low SES DC Chinese immigrant circles is "Isn't that school for black kids and white people who adopt babies from China? We don't know Chinese families who use it. We've heard that the head doesn't speak Chinese."

Maybe the weirdest of the weirdos are in the DCPC universe.

So what would you propose to convince them, then? Give Chinese immigrants preference to increase the numbers? Kick all the black kids out?