Anonymous wrote:Lolll at the men responding here who are completely NOT getting it. In the vast, vast majority of marriages with children: a) your "I don't get it, when I was single I did all my own laundry and just ate snacks at the gym!" (lol) straight up does not apply

I screened for this soooo hard when I was single. It's not enough to take care of yourself (necessary, but not sufficient), he had to demonstrate that he didn't have blinders on when it came to my effort. So many women are working so hard behind the scenes to make everything run smoothly, only to have their SO's come into threads like these and say "I did just as much, I took out the trash every. single. week!" Nope, nope, nope. You don't get to be comfortably blind to how much work it takes to make a household, marriage, and family work.

My DH and I have a very good division of labor, and we are constantly acknowledging the other's efforts and saying thank you. Because ignoring the other person's efforts is the beginning of the end in my mind. First you take it for granted, then you stop seeing it entirely and devalue all the effort the other person is putting in, but you always remember what you've done. That's why these studies always show that men believe they're doing 50% or better of the housework when reality shows they're doing a tiny sliver of the actual work: because they meticulously track their own efforts and are oblivious to, intentionally ignore, or proactively degrade (busywork) the other person's work. Miss me with that noise.

Anonymous wrote:Lolll at the men responding here who are completely NOT getting it. In the vast, vast majority of marriages with children: a) your "I don't get it, when I was single I did all my own laundry and just ate snacks at the gym!" (lol) straight up does not apply

But it DOES apply when you're divorced and once again single...WHICH IS WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT.

The whole idea of what a woman contributes to the household/marriage is COMPLETELY OFF TOPIC.

Lolll at the men responding here who are completely NOT getting it. In the vast, vast majority of marriages with children: a) your "I don't get it, when I was single I did all my own laundry and just ate snacks at the gym!" (lol) straight up does not apply

I really don't understand.

In my experience, cleaning is fairly easy if you do it all the time as you go along. That's what I teach my children. We vacuume most mornings. I gwipe down the kitchen and bathrooms every night. Clean on the weekends.

It's the invented task: "mopping the storage closet" that led to problems in my marriage. It was so obvious that those tasks were an excuse to ignore the kids.

Anonymous wrote:The Christmas Eve menu will never make me stop laughing. Should join "Larla" as DCUM stupidity lore.

Why is that stupid? I didn't write it, but depending on how many people you are having over and when you go to church, making a menu that is pleasing for a crowd of people with differing tastes, shopping for it, and cooking/prep can take hours.

If it's just you and you have frozen pizza, then yeah, it's stupid.

But, if you know that you can invite your boss and your best friend over for Christmas with short notice, and there will be a great meal for them, and you can be a wonderful host. That takes thought and planning on your wife's part.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yep.

If you want to invent a ton of busywork to be a martyr while your spouse handles everything that really needs to be done while also handling the children, knock yourself out.

But you agreed that basically nothing on that list is actually busywork. If a woman has to handle all of that (in addition to the daily chores, like childcare, laundry, cleaning, cooking), I have a hard time understanding what you're getting at. We're not talking about you, we're talking about DHs who actually do nothing (which are many, as indicated by copious research and anecdote). I have no idea what your wife did that you think that was "busywork" but more examples might be useful.

You seem like a kind person. I'm not trying to argue or be a jerk.

When I was married, my wife and I split chores 50/50. SHe's OCD about cleanliness so it wasn't 50/50 pre-kids. Dusting the guest bedroom and stuff was all her. (I consider that busywork and she didn't use that to one up me, so all ok). I did extra on the childcare post-kids to make it 50/50 so she could mop the storage closet and re-arrange the kids clothing drawers.

Everything else is my own personal complaints. You're right: no need to extrapolate beyond that. I live in a condo with extra bedrooms for my kids to visit three days a week. It doesn't take much time at all to keep it spotlessly clean when I'm by myself. When the kids are with me, we have fun. When they're with their mom they clean and do yard work.

Do you expect your children to just have fun all the time or do you expect that they will learn some basic life skills like cleaning? I doubt your exW requires the kids to clean whenever they have a free moment, but as a child of divorce myself I can tell you that kids tell their parents whatever they think will satisfy them. My dad thought my mom had us watch limitless tv and never let us go anywhere so I never told him the trips she took us on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yep.

If you want to invent a ton of busywork to be a martyr while your spouse handles everything that really needs to be done while also handling the children, knock yourself out.

But you agreed that basically nothing on that list is actually busywork. If a woman has to handle all of that (in addition to the daily chores, like childcare, laundry, cleaning, cooking), I have a hard time understanding what you're getting at. We're not talking about you, we're talking about DHs who actually do nothing (which are many, as indicated by copious research and anecdote). I have no idea what your wife did that you think that was "busywork" but more examples might be useful.

You seem like a kind person. I'm not trying to argue or be a jerk.

When I was married, my wife and I split chores 50/50. SHe's OCD about cleanliness so it wasn't 50/50 pre-kids. Dusting the guest bedroom and stuff was all her. (I consider that busywork and she didn't use that to one up me, so all ok). I did extra on the childcare post-kids to make it 50/50 so she could mop the storage closet and re-arrange the kids clothing drawers.

Everything else is my own personal complaints. You're right: no need to extrapolate beyond that. I live in a condo with extra bedrooms for my kids to visit three days a week. It doesn't take much time at all to keep it spotlessly clean when I'm by myself. When the kids are with me, we have fun. When they're with their mom they clean and do yard work.

The Christmas Eve menu will never make me stop laughing. Should join "Larla" as DCUM stupidity lore.

Anonymous wrote:Yep.

If you want to invent a ton of busywork to be a martyr while your spouse handles everything that really needs to be done while also handling the children, knock yourself out.

But you agreed that basically nothing on that list is actually busywork. If a woman has to handle all of that (in addition to the daily chores, like childcare, laundry, cleaning, cooking), I have a hard time understanding what you're getting at. We're not talking about you, we're talking about DHs who actually do nothing (which are many, as indicated by copious research and anecdote). I have no idea what your wife did that you think that was "busywork" but more examples might be useful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Fwiw, not planning family events will result in angry in-laws and we know how that goes. Same with not sending thank you notes.

You think thank-you notes are important, we got that. Arguably they are. The previous statement however that men remarry so that someone else can write their thank-you notes is wrong.

Obviously they don't remarry for thank you notes and I wasn't saying that. The reason they remarry is probably subconscious. But a married man is used to having someone do EVERYTHING for them. For so many men all they have to do is go to work and maybe do the dishes and they have this relatively cush life. A life where they live in a nice home, go on vacations, have social events scheduled, kids are taken care of etc.

Who the hell are these men who get "everything" done for them? That's not my life, I know that much. I cook my own meals, do my own laundry, clean up after myself.

As for "live in a nice home, go on vacations" since I pay for those things it is my right to enjoy them -- and heck I don't need to be married to get either one.

Most men. Out of all of our married friends I dont know one couple where the man is in charge of the social calendar, buys the children clothing, plans the vacations and figures our logistics, decorated the house etc.

So you currently are the one who meets with the interior designer? You plan the vacations and I don't mean just picking the location to visit.

Here are a few questions you can ask yourself (if married) to see if someone is taking care of you:

1. Who purchased the airfare and booked the hotel on the last vacation?? Who chose what to do on the vacation and researched it in advance?

2. Who chose and purchased the sheets on your bed? Or did these sheets just show up and you never thought about where th came from?

3. Who washes the sheets? Who knows when they were last wages?

4. Who chose the window coverings in your house and scheduled for them to be installed? Who made sure they match your decor?

5. Who scheduled the last doctor's appointment for your child? Who went?

6. Who determined the Christmas Eve/day menu, went shopping for it and cooked?

7. Who decided how to celebrate New Years?

8. Who planned the last date night ? Who scheduled the babysitter for it?

9. Who scheduled your kid's birthday party, bought the cake, bought presents, had your kid write thank you not s?

10. Who picked out the furniture and bedding in your childrens' rooms?

11. When is your child due for their next vaccine? Next doctor's appointment? When is registration for school?

12. Who made sure your child learned to swim?

13. Who makes sure the dog has had a bath?

14. Who figured out what you'll do over thanksgiving and where you'll go? Who told others what the plan is?

Omg I could go on.


Congratulations if you did all of these things above. If so, you're an evolved male.

I agree. I have 12 categories of things that I put on my "to do" list weekly (this is copied from a document I keep on my computer)

1) Social life: This includes making plans with friends, arranging babysitters for date nights, planning vacations and outings for breaks from school, planning playdates/play group, calling/texting old friends and relatives, calling my mom every day
2) Kids sports: This includes making sure the kids get daily exercise, planning things to get moving, signing up for swim team/soccer/basketball/gymnastics
3) My own exercise: 5x/wk on the erg. Out rowing as often as possible
4) Clothing/Grooming: purchasing clothes that fit, getting rid of old ones, my own hair appointments, getting kids hair cut, keeping up with doctor and dentist appointments, purchasing and replacing accessories as needed (shoes, belts, hairbows, earrings), daily laundry
5) Food: Weekly meal planning, trips to farmers market, grocery shopping, special food and meal plans for holidays and social events
6) Education: supplement with math as needed, music lessons, daily music practice, journal writing, reading the news, having certain texts available to kids, knowing when school events are and attending or getting relative/friend to attend in our stead
7) Reading/Entertainment: weekly trips to the library, trips to the bookstore, keeping up with xbox games and parental controls, family movie night, tickets to plays/shows/events, keeping age appropriate toys, keeping craft supplies updated and organized
8) Home maintenance/Decor: daily cleaning, wipe-downs, and pick-up, managing cleaning service, painting, minor household repairs, finding artwork, lighting, furniture, changing decorations seasonally, flipping mattresses, replacing towels and sheets as needed
9) Work: schedule childcare, schedule additional childcare if needed for unexpected hours, particular things I need to do for my work
10) Volunteer: make meals as needed with church group, write letters to prisoners, monthly free clinic, continue to look for ways to volunteer through work and church bulletin
11) Cars: maintenance as needed, oil changes, keep interior clean
12) Yard: weekly mowing, weed, tree trimming, mulch, planting flowers and bulbs, trim bushes, clean gutters yearly

It's a lot of work to keep up with everything.

Yep.

If you want to invent a ton of busywork to be a martyr while your spouse handles everything that really needs to be done while also handling the children, knock yourself out.

Anonymous wrote:I'm the busywork guy.

I did 1, 9, 11.

Shared 2 and 3 equally as partners.

4 was 100 percent in place in the house i paid for with money I'd made before our marriage.

6-8 we did together. Didn't take much time. Certainly I never would have thought of that as "work"

The birthday party and kid's room stuff is fun. Love doingf that. If you consider that work i worry about your kids.

No dog.

The holidays take about 2 mins of planning and then we both pitch in to handle it.

So basically you're saying, most of these things you did yourself (good for you) and the other things you don't think are "work" because they're fun. In other words, you have nothing to contribute to the discussion.

Anonymous wrote:Why are women in here arguing with men about their reasons for wanting to remarry? I'm a woman and I know what the men are saying to be true. They really are simple creatures. After marrying, having kids and divorcing, when looking for a new mate, they're thinking about life partner/someone to date and bed partner. They no longer have to worry about her genes, maternal instincts. Even the ability to save and contribute financially is not that important because it has all been taking care of in the first marriage (the kids, struggling for the down payment on a house, climbing the corporate ladder to higher pay, etc).

They really don't care about the family gatherings, menus etc. They'd be fine having a romantic Christmas dinner in front of the fire place with Wife #2. And taking kids to the doctor and all the other stuff is likely to be taken care of by Wife #2.

Sure housecleaning may be something Wife#2 does, but that's just part of life. They would both be doing that (Ex DH & Wife 2) in their individual homes even if they'd never met.

Trust me, I have a couple of very close male friends who are looking for Wife 2 (widowed and divorced) and they are really just looking for someone to spend the rest of their lives with and have a bed partner (a friend's exact words). The other stuff takes care of itself for them.

Lol, nobody is arguing about this. We totally agree: men want to remarry because marriage is a good deal for them. As you outline, remarriage may be an even better deal for them. Women don't want to remarry for the opposite reason. It's easy for men to be "simple" when the women do all the work for them (and wife #1 put in all the hard work of childrearing.)

I'm the busywork guy.

I did 1, 9, 11.

Shared 2 and 3 equally as partners.

4 was 100 percent in place in the house i paid for with money I'd made before our marriage.

6-8 we did together. Didn't take much time. Certainly I never would have thought of that as "work"

The birthday party and kid's room stuff is fun. Love doingf that. If you consider that work i worry about your kids.

No dog.

The holidays take about 2 mins of planning and then we both pitch in to handle it.

Anonymous wrote:Why are women in here arguing with men about their reasons for wanting to remarry? I'm a woman and I know what the men are saying to be true. They really are simple creatures. After marrying, having kids and divorcing, when looking for a new mate, they're thinking about life partner/someone to date and bed partner. They no longer have to worry about her genes, maternal instincts. Even the ability to save and contribute financially is not that important because it has all been taking care of in the first marriage (the kids, struggling for the down payment on a house, climbing the corporate ladder to higher pay, etc).

They really don't care about the family gatherings, menus etc. They'd be fine having a romantic Christmas dinner in front of the fire place with Wife #2. And taking kids to the doctor and all the other stuff is likely to be taken care of by Wife #2.

Sure housecleaning may be something Wife#2 does, but that's just part of life. They would both be doing that (Ex DH & Wife 2) in their individual homes even if they'd never met.

Trust me, I have a couple of very close male friends who are looking for Wife 2 (widowed and divorced) and they are really just looking for someone to spend the rest of their lives with and have a bed partner (a friend's exact words). The other stuff takes care of itself for them.

I meant to say that taking kids to the doctor will likely be taken care of by Wife #1.

Also, in stating he doesn't care about genes, maternal instincts etc. I mean that he likely will not care about starting another family, so he's not looking for all of that 'extra stuff' like "Will she read our future children bedtime stories, be patient with them" ect. At most he just wants someone who'll be nice to the kids he has--not necessarily write thank you notes for the gifts they receive and all the rest