Anonymous
10/10/2016 20:34
Subject: Re:How to improve AAP and General Ed Together
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Folks seem to be thinking that heavenly manna is being dished out in the AAP classes. That ain't so. Believe me, the upper limit to what's being offered isn't that much higher than in GE.
But the classes move much faster, especially in elementary school.
The difference is in how quickly/easily the kids as a group are able to move through the curriculum.
Can we get back to how to fix the system rather than debating how hard or easy the AAP curriculum is? Maybe that debate could have its own thread.
It's hard to leave this out of the discussion when some are proposing that AAP should be offered to everyone, or mostly everyone. I don't think most people really have a sense of what percentage of students could move at the AAP pace or not. Several posters have suggested that AAP be the norm and then have a small slice at the top and a small slice at the bottom. That doesn't really seem like it would be great for the 2 'extremes' on either side.
Anonymous
10/10/2016 20:06
Subject: Re:How to improve AAP and General Ed Together
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:OP, you've collected some good ideas. I think the place to start is with leveling the services across FCPS, and dealing with the soft bigotry accompanying children's test score profiles. Each kid is unique and has different needs. But before any of this can be accomplished, you need a champion to sponsor change, or champions at each school bonding together over this, and you need people to walk across each side of the AAP aisle. AAP is not panacea, and non-AAP kids deserve to be challenged appropriately.
OP here. What do you mean by leveling the services? I don't want each classroom to be the same. I do want to make sure each school is welcoming to all students and each school has something to draw people to it. So in that regard I want to level the schools a bit better.
When I said level, I meant that each group of students should be challenged appropriately, and given the same attention as at other schools. For example, some level 3 schools engage students on a weekly basis, some only once a month. If FCPS mixed AAP/L4 kids with L3 kids in a classroom, can you imagine how happy AAP/L4 kids were pulled out only monthly for the extra challenge they need? Yet, some L3 kids and AAP/L4 kids whose parents decided to keep them at a a base scho are expected to accept this situation.
Anonymous
10/10/2016 20:06
Subject: Re:How to improve AAP and General Ed Together
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Folks seem to be thinking that heavenly manna is being dished out in the AAP classes. That ain't so. Believe me, the upper limit to what's being offered isn't that much higher than in GE.
But the classes move much faster, especially in elementary school.
The difference is in how quickly/easily the kids as a group are able to move through the curriculum.
Can we get back to how to fix the system rather than debating how hard or easy the AAP curriculum is? Maybe that debate could have its own thread.
Anonymous
10/10/2016 19:54
Subject: Re:How to improve AAP and General Ed Together
Anonymous wrote:Folks seem to be thinking that heavenly manna is being dished out in the AAP classes. That ain't so. Believe me, the upper limit to what's being offered isn't that much higher than in GE.
But the classes move much faster, especially in elementary school.
The difference is in how quickly/easily the kids as a group are able to move through the curriculum.
Anonymous
10/10/2016 19:47
Subject: Re:How to improve AAP and General Ed Together
Anonymous wrote:I think it would make it better if students were simply grouped by ability as other schools do. Use the cogat and naglieri test scores as a starting point and adjust according to performance. Also, have different groups per core subject. Add another teacher or specialist to the lower levels.
They are grouped by ability. Parents just don't anyone to name the groups anything that makes one sound better than the other. Or the they want the bottom 10 percent to separated out to be by themselves. As long as their child isn't in THAT group, they don't care about quality or stigma.
Anonymous
10/10/2016 19:07
Subject: Re:How to improve AAP and General Ed Together
I think it would make it better if students were simply grouped by ability as other schools do. Use the cogat and naglieri test scores as a starting point and adjust according to performance. Also, have different groups per core subject. Add another teacher or specialist to the lower levels.
Anonymous
10/10/2016 19:06
Subject: Re:How to improve AAP and General Ed Together
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Folks seem to be thinking that heavenly manna is being dished out in the AAP classes. That ain't so. Believe me, the upper limit to what's being offered isn't that much higher than in GE.
Which will, of course, trigger a response along the lines of "if it's not much different, why not let all children have access to it." You can't win for trying on this board.
AAP involves some greater depth into areas of study and is often one year above on grade standards. It's not that much different, but it's not the same. Many kids can handle it, but some can't. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove with your statement, but it doesn't come across to me as a statement that's trying to improve both AAP and general ed. If you have a suggestion, please just state it.
Anonymous
10/10/2016 18:46
Subject: Re:How to improve AAP and General Ed Together
Anonymous wrote:Folks seem to be thinking that heavenly manna is being dished out in the AAP classes. That ain't so. Believe me, the upper limit to what's being offered isn't that much higher than in GE.
Which will, of course, trigger a response along the lines of "if it's not much different, why not let all children have access to it." You can't win for trying on this board.
Anonymous
10/10/2016 18:45
Subject: How to improve AAP and General Ed Together
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Reading level went down because of the book selection at school? I find that hard to believe.
Were there no challenging books available at home, in the library or at the community library?
I wonder what the principal said about the book selection in the classroom.
This greatly depends on the teacher. My son's first grade teacher kept him in challenging books all year long. He could take another as soon as he was finished. However, in second grade he was only allowed to change books once per week and often it was the same book. Of course I was running to the library every week but it was like a breath of fresh air for him when he entered AAP. Others were reading the same or more difficult books. This got him interested in other higher leveled books.
Anonymous
10/10/2016 18:37
Subject: Re:How to improve AAP and General Ed Together
Folks seem to be thinking that heavenly manna is being dished out in the AAP classes. That ain't so. Believe me, the upper limit to what's being offered isn't that much higher than in GE.
Anonymous
10/10/2016 17:09
Subject: Re:How to improve AAP and General Ed Together
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Also, I don't think the LLIV curriculum should be reserved for just AAP students. I thought I made that clear before. I think kids who can handle it should be offered it. But it doesn't mean that everyone should be offered an advanced curriculum. Several schools only have 60-70% pass rates on the SOL. The other 30-40% need an engaging curriculum, but not an advanced one.
Right. How do you suggest identifying the kids that can handle it? Because that is what the screening process attempts to do already -
Is there a problem with the way level 2 and level 3 students are identified? I haven't heard problems associated with their screening process as much as I've heard that there is little advanced work offered.
Anonymous
10/10/2016 17:05
Subject: How to improve AAP and General Ed Together
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If they are receiving advanced services and differentiation, isn't that what matters??? How is Gen Ed a derogatory 'label'?
The point is that the quality of and exposure to advanced services and differentiation varies widely by school in the same district, e.g., some classrooms are essentially capped at so that kids willing and able to do more aren't challenged (see upthread). This the resentment and the "us v them" mentality when it comes to kids who have close IQs. If Sally and Diego's WiSC scores differ by a couple points, and the one who gets into AAP can get the impression he/she are smart while the other is not so smart. Silly, but it can and does happen. So OP wants to know how to break down this barrier.
But this is life. Better to learn the lesson now. When you and co-worker X get a review and co-worker X has a few more accolades, he/she gets the bonus, promotion, or award, whatever. It may make you feel bad. Get used to it.
It is an artificial class-divide created using government funds. Worse the inconsistent delivery of services creates an environment that discriminates with low expectations. For example:
Diego has a 139 CoGAT, while Katrina has a 141. GenEd: "Well, Diego, you're already at grade level that puts you at the top of your classmates. You can coast for the rest of the year while I catch everyone up. Maybe sometime this month the AART will pull you out to do something new." AAP: "Well, Katrina, you're already at grade level, how much higher can you go? Let's delve deeper into this subject?"
FCPS has a lot of Diegos that would qualify for gifted in many other communities, yet in one of the wealthiest counties in the nation they are "held back" at more than one school here. Telling parents to move is a non-starter. We live where we live. We should expect better from our school system, and treat each other with dignity and respect, no matter our test scores.
The PP I was responding to said that their child was in fact taking advanced subjects and receiving differentiated services - but they he/she was "stuck with" the Gen Ed "label" - a stupid label, PP called it.
So the problem (with some segment of parents at least) is NOT with the curriculum or quality of education but just that they don't have bragging rights - or that their child feels badly for being in Gen Ed -EVEN if they are receiving advanced services.
That, my friends, is where you as parents come in and put it into perspective for your child!
Right. It's not FCPS problem to solve, that is a parenting responsibility.
Anonymous
10/10/2016 17:04
Subject: Re:How to improve AAP and General Ed Together
Anonymous wrote:Also, I don't think the LLIV curriculum should be reserved for just AAP students. I thought I made that clear before. I think kids who can handle it should be offered it. But it doesn't mean that everyone should be offered an advanced curriculum. Several schools only have 60-70% pass rates on the SOL. The other 30-40% need an engaging curriculum, but not an advanced one.
Right. How do you suggest identifying the kids that can handle it? Because that is what the screening process attempts to do already -
Anonymous
10/10/2016 16:49
Subject: How to improve AAP and General Ed Together
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If they are receiving advanced services and differentiation, isn't that what matters??? How is Gen Ed a derogatory 'label'?
The point is that the quality of and exposure to advanced services and differentiation varies widely by school in the same district, e.g., some classrooms are essentially capped at so that kids willing and able to do more aren't challenged (see upthread). This the resentment and the "us v them" mentality when it comes to kids who have close IQs. If Sally and Diego's WiSC scores differ by a couple points, and the one who gets into AAP can get the impression he/she are smart while the other is not so smart. Silly, but it can and does happen. So OP wants to know how to break down this barrier.
But this is life. Better to learn the lesson now. When you and co-worker X get a review and co-worker X has a few more accolades, he/she gets the bonus, promotion, or award, whatever. It may make you feel bad. Get used to it.
It is an artificial class-divide created using government funds. Worse the inconsistent delivery of services creates an environment that discriminates with low expectations. For example:
Diego has a 139 CoGAT, while Katrina has a 141. GenEd: "Well, Diego, you're already at grade level that puts you at the top of your classmates. You can coast for the rest of the year while I catch everyone up. Maybe sometime this month the AART will pull you out to do something new." AAP: "Well, Katrina, you're already at grade level, how much higher can you go? Let's delve deeper into this subject?"
FCPS has a lot of Diegos that would qualify for gifted in many other communities, yet in one of the wealthiest counties in the nation they are "held back" at more than one school here. Telling parents to move is a non-starter. We live where we live. We should expect better from our school system, and treat each other with dignity and respect, no matter our test scores.
The PP I was responding to said that their child was in fact taking advanced subjects and receiving differentiated services - but they he/she was "stuck with" the Gen Ed "label" - a stupid label, PP called it.
So the problem (with some segment of parents at least) is NOT with the curriculum or quality of education but just that they don't have bragging rights - or that their child feels badly for being in Gen Ed -EVEN if they are receiving advanced services.
That, my friends, is where you as parents come in and put it into perspective for your child!
Anonymous
10/10/2016 16:46
Subject: Re:How to improve AAP and General Ed Together
Also, I don't think the LLIV curriculum should be reserved for just AAP students. I thought I made that clear before. I think kids who can handle it should be offered it. But it doesn't mean that everyone should be offered an advanced curriculum. Several schools only have 60-70% pass rates on the SOL. The other 30-40% need an engaging curriculum, but not an advanced one.