Anonymous wrote:^formatting got screwed up

He's not a nonfunctional bump on a log. But what I really want is for him to notice that things need doing and to do them himself without me having to ask him or nag him into doing it. When I notice that chores need doing (such as emptying the dishwasher or taking the trash out to the garbage can, or rinsing out the sink after the kids have brushed their teeth), I usually do it immediately. Why is this too much to ask of men?

The other thing is, we both have demanding careers. When he comes home, he wants to lay around. I want to too but I don't because we have children who need to be fed, bathed, read to, and tucked into bed. We have chores that need doing: clean up after dinner, empty and repack backpacks and lunch boxes, sign son's homework planner, check homework, lay out clothes for tomorrow. He never takes the initiative on any of that stuff. It's like he thinks "I worked a full day, now I can rest." Well I did TOO but SOMEONE needs to do this stuff!

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Anonymous wrote:There is so much power in stepping back and disentangling yourself, not being in a highly reactive state all the time. It took me two decades of struggle with my partner.

It was only when I truly, finally understood at a gut level that I can't control others, only myself, that I started to find more peace. This applies even more if your partner has serious issues they are working on.

I am angry, no doubt about it, at injustices in my partnership, in the world, in life. That's the kind of person I am. But it's on me to handle my feelings and reactions to the world around me.

I let go of thinking I could change or control my parther's actions or feelings. I put all my focus into figuring out how to handle myself, into making life more positive for myself and everyone around me, and into communicating and dealing with him in a positive way.

Keep in mind, you have to do this with an understanding of what acceptable limits are on how you are treated and what you accept from others. There's a fine line between being resigned to and accepting others' behaviors and actually enabling others to get away with dumping things on you.

I think women really struggle with these issues with our partners because we get into childrearing mode, where we are always telling our kids what to do, teaching them, molding their behaviors, as it's part of our jobs as parents. NOT parenting our partners or random strangers means we have to make a conscious effort to switch that off.

He's not a nonfunctional bump on a log. But what I really want is for him to notice that things need doing and to do them himself without me having to ask him or nag him into doing it. When I notice that chores need doing (such as emptying the dishwasher or taking the trash out to the garbage can, or rinsing out the sink after the kids have brushed their teeth), I usually do it immediately. Why is this too much to ask of men?

The other thing is, we both have demanding careers. When he comes home, he wants to lay around. I want to too but I don't because we have children who need to be fed, bathed, read to, and tucked into bed. We have chores that need doing: clean up after dinner, empty and repack backpacks and lunch boxes, sign son's homework planner, check homework, lay out clothes for tomorrow. He never takes the initiative on any of that stuff. It's like he thinks "I worked a full day, now I can rest." Well I did TOO but SOMEONE needs to do this stuff!

New poster. Can you give some examples of this? This is where I am struggling. I do much more around the house than my husband but I can't think of a way to make him want to do more.

Reframe the question. What do you want to do, PP. Take your husband out of the picture. What are the things around the house that matter to you. Do those. Leave everything else to the side. What might happen is that you will stop doing things he really wants taken care of. In which case, he'll do them because you're not going to.

For example, I hate dealing with dry cleaning. The hours are awful, I am always rushed and the bulk of my clothes I don't need to dry clean that often. My husband gets his dress shirts cleaned on a weekly basis. I explained to him that I was only going to the dry cleaner once a month (with my stuff). His dirty shirts piled up, he asked me to go, I told him I didn't need anything cleaned and walked out the door to work. He took his stuff with him and now is keeping track of this. Because it matters to him. Not me.

But it's simple things like grocery shopping, cooking dinner, laundry, cleaning the bathrooms in between the cleaner's visits. All the mental gymnastics that a PP mentioned (keeping track of play dates, medical appointments, school stuff, holiday gift buying and wrapping). If I don't nag him to do these things, he just won't. So I have to do them on top of everything else including my own job.

But it's a choice, PP. These things are important to you and that should be enough. Who cares what he does. Do what you think is important because you would be doing it regardless. It's a lot less psychic energy trying to cajole him into doing what you want to do. Also. Have you asked your husband what's important to him? Because that's a big thing and something I think a lot of women just let slide by. Maybe if it's a less "to do" and more of a what do you want to do, you might get more mileage out of him.

Ok so I should just be all right with doing all of the errands and housework (we have an e/o cleaning lady so he literally doesn't lift a finger ever unless I nag him to but the bathrooms and kitchen in particular get gross on the off weeks so they need to be cleaned plus we always have laundry that needs to be done and put away) plus most of the parenting plus my own job?? Because that's what it sounds like you are saying. If I were to accept that as the accepted status quo, what would I be getting out of this relationship besides sparing myself the hassle of divorce?

If you married a non-functional lump on a log, then that's a bigger issue. He's an adult and I imagine he has some opinions on how things should occur. What would he do left to his own devices?

But that said, I actually would pare down, do what needs to be done and call it a day. Because I think it's easier than dealing with the hassles of divorce (where I would be doing everyone alone anyway, but dealing with loss of wealth, sharing custody, uprooting the kids' lives, etc).

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Anonymous wrote:I don't know that I really agree with this line of thinking. Maybe my husband is more..malleable than many men? I wouldn't have thought so but my take on this kind of thing is that bottom line, I don't take crap. I deserve to be treated a certain way and I am going to get that treatment.

When we were first married, he did that thing many men do where they go to the grocery store and came back with a bunch of junk. Unh uh, sorry, your ass is going back to the store to get the real food we need. And yes I will ridicule you because you deserve to be. Thirty years old and you can't scan the cupboards to see what we need? Fucking no. He leaves his dirty dishes by the sink for me to clean or whiskers in the sink? I'm not your fucking maid, this is unacceptable, clean them now before you go to work. You thought I was going to do all the night wakings and take care of the kid by myself while you "baby sit" some times? No fucking way, I will divorce your ass over this. You're going to tell me you'll do some house project so we don't have to waste money on hiring it out but then not do it? Yeah I will inform you how childish and irresponsible that type of behavior. I'm not going to play nice about bullshit like that. Point blank, if you want to be with me, you will treat me the way I want.

We've been married over ten years, together for 15, and I've basically turned him into the husband and father I wanted for myself and my children. Don't take crap, ladies. You're better than that.

And what about how your husband would like to be treated? Is it okay for him to ridicule you when you deserve it?

Great work finding a man with no backbone who allows himself to be turned into what you want. It's clearly what you need. I would have divorced your ass a long time ago with the treatment you've outlined above. Very VERY few men want a wife like you, so stick with your doormat, PP.

Anonymous wrote:I don't know that I really agree with this line of thinking. Maybe my husband is more..malleable than many men? I wouldn't have thought so but my take on this kind of thing is that bottom line, I don't take crap. I deserve to be treated a certain way and I am going to get that treatment.

When we were first married, he did that thing many men do where they go to the grocery store and came back with a bunch of junk. Unh uh, sorry, your ass is going back to the store to get the real food we need. And yes I will ridicule you because you deserve to be. Thirty years old and you can't scan the cupboards to see what we need? Fucking no. He leaves his dirty dishes by the sink for me to clean or whiskers in the sink? I'm not your fucking maid, this is unacceptable, clean them now before you go to work. You thought I was going to do all the night wakings and take care of the kid by myself while you "baby sit" some times? No fucking way, I will divorce your ass over this. You're going to tell me you'll do some house project so we don't have to waste money on hiring it out but then not do it? Yeah I will inform you how childish and irresponsible that type of behavior. I'm not going to play nice about bullshit like that. Point blank, if you want to be with me, you will treat me the way I want.

We've been married over ten years, together for 15, and I've basically turned him into the husband and father I wanted for myself and my children. Don't take crap, ladies. You're better than that.

Anonymous wrote:If you are taking a step back, and owning what you care about - you are not "just doing everything." I don't demand that things get done my way, and if I care about it, I do it. What I've found is that it gives my resistant DH to do the things he cares about, in his way. If you are picturing the detachment as giving up and not expecting anything of your partner, you aren't getting it. It's also very easy to think you are doing everything because you don't really see your partners contributions when you are in reactive mode. I realized my DH does quite a bit in the mornings that I wasn't giving him credit for. He takes it easier in the evening when I'm at my most productive. stepping back and observing will often show a bigger picture. I own that when I do "more" I'm choosing to.

Anonymous wrote:If you are taking a step back, and owning what you care about - you are not "just doing everything." I don't demand that things get done my way, and if I care about it, I do it. What I've found is that it gives my resistant DH to do the things he cares about, in his way. If you are picturing the detachment as giving up and not expecting anything of your partner, you aren't getting it. It's also very easy to think you are doing everything because you don't really see your partners contributions when you are in reactive mode. I realized my DH does quite a bit in the mornings that I wasn't giving him credit for. He takes it easier in the evening when I'm at my most productive. stepping back and observing will often show a bigger picture. I own that when I do "more" I'm choosing to.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is so much power in stepping back and disentangling yourself, not being in a highly reactive state all the time. It took me two decades of struggle with my partner.

It was only when I truly, finally understood at a gut level that I can't control others, only myself, that I started to find more peace. This applies even more if your partner has serious issues they are working on.

I am angry, no doubt about it, at injustices in my partnership, in the world, in life. That's the kind of person I am. But it's on me to handle my feelings and reactions to the world around me.

I let go of thinking I could change or control my parther's actions or feelings. I put all my focus into figuring out how to handle myself, into making life more positive for myself and everyone around me, and into communicating and dealing with him in a positive way.

Keep in mind, you have to do this with an understanding of what acceptable limits are on how you are treated and what you accept from others. There's a fine line between being resigned to and accepting others' behaviors and actually enabling others to get away with dumping things on you.

I think women really struggle with these issues with our partners because we get into childrearing mode, where we are always telling our kids what to do, teaching them, molding their behaviors, as it's part of our jobs as parents. NOT parenting our partners or random strangers means we have to make a conscious effort to switch that off.

New poster. Can you give some examples of this? This is where I am struggling. I do much more around the house than my husband but I can't think of a way to make him want to do more.

Reframe the question. What do you want to do, PP. Take your husband out of the picture. What are the things around the house that matter to you. Do those. Leave everything else to the side. What might happen is that you will stop doing things he really wants taken care of. In which case, he'll do them because you're not going to.

For example, I hate dealing with dry cleaning. The hours are awful, I am always rushed and the bulk of my clothes I don't need to dry clean that often. My husband gets his dress shirts cleaned on a weekly basis. I explained to him that I was only going to the dry cleaner once a month (with my stuff). His dirty shirts piled up, he asked me to go, I told him I didn't need anything cleaned and walked out the door to work. He took his stuff with him and now is keeping track of this. Because it matters to him. Not me.

But it's simple things like grocery shopping, cooking dinner, laundry, cleaning the bathrooms in between the cleaner's visits. All the mental gymnastics that a PP mentioned (keeping track of play dates, medical appointments, school stuff, holiday gift buying and wrapping). If I don't nag him to do these things, he just won't. So I have to do them on top of everything else including my own job.

But it's a choice, PP. These things are important to you and that should be enough. Who cares what he does. Do what you think is important because you would be doing it regardless. It's a lot less psychic energy trying to cajole him into doing what you want to do. Also. Have you asked your husband what's important to him? Because that's a big thing and something I think a lot of women just let slide by. Maybe if it's a less "to do" and more of a what do you want to do, you might get more mileage out of him.

Ok so I should just be all right with doing all of the errands and housework (we have an e/o cleaning lady so he literally doesn't lift a finger ever unless I nag him to but the bathrooms and kitchen in particular get gross on the off weeks so they need to be cleaned plus we always have laundry that needs to be done and put away) plus most of the parenting plus my own job?? Because that's what it sounds like you are saying. If I were to accept that as the accepted status quo, what would I be getting out of this relationship besides sparing myself the hassle of divorce?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is so much power in stepping back and disentangling yourself, not being in a highly reactive state all the time. It took me two decades of struggle with my partner.

It was only when I truly, finally understood at a gut level that I can't control others, only myself, that I started to find more peace. This applies even more if your partner has serious issues they are working on.

I am angry, no doubt about it, at injustices in my partnership, in the world, in life. That's the kind of person I am. But it's on me to handle my feelings and reactions to the world around me.

I let go of thinking I could change or control my parther's actions or feelings. I put all my focus into figuring out how to handle myself, into making life more positive for myself and everyone around me, and into communicating and dealing with him in a positive way.

Keep in mind, you have to do this with an understanding of what acceptable limits are on how you are treated and what you accept from others. There's a fine line between being resigned to and accepting others' behaviors and actually enabling others to get away with dumping things on you.

I think women really struggle with these issues with our partners because we get into childrearing mode, where we are always telling our kids what to do, teaching them, molding their behaviors, as it's part of our jobs as parents. NOT parenting our partners or random strangers means we have to make a conscious effort to switch that off.

New poster. Can you give some examples of this? This is where I am struggling. I do much more around the house than my husband but I can't think of a way to make him want to do more.

Reframe the question. What do you want to do, PP. Take your husband out of the picture. What are the things around the house that matter to you. Do those. Leave everything else to the side. What might happen is that you will stop doing things he really wants taken care of. In which case, he'll do them because you're not going to.

For example, I hate dealing with dry cleaning. The hours are awful, I am always rushed and the bulk of my clothes I don't need to dry clean that often. My husband gets his dress shirts cleaned on a weekly basis. I explained to him that I was only going to the dry cleaner once a month (with my stuff). His dirty shirts piled up, he asked me to go, I told him I didn't need anything cleaned and walked out the door to work. He took his stuff with him and now is keeping track of this. Because it matters to him. Not me.

But it's simple things like grocery shopping, cooking dinner, laundry, cleaning the bathrooms in between the cleaner's visits. All the mental gymnastics that a PP mentioned (keeping track of play dates, medical appointments, school stuff, holiday gift buying and wrapping). If I don't nag him to do these things, he just won't. So I have to do them on top of everything else including my own job.

But it's a choice, PP. These things are important to you and that should be enough. Who cares what he does. Do what you think is important because you would be doing it regardless. It's a lot less psychic energy trying to cajole him into doing what you want to do. Also. Have you asked your husband what's important to him? Because that's a big thing and something I think a lot of women just let slide by. Maybe if it's a less "to do" and more of a what do you want to do, you might get more mileage out of him.

Anonymous wrote:NP here. Married 20+ years, I've detached for a few years now and it has definitely helped, as OP and PPs have noted.

I have a question for this group. My husband is great around the house, with meals, kids, etc. but his issue is that he has a hard time with his temper. The other day, we were talking about an activity I wanted to do. Without going into detail, it would have involved me going over to a stranger's house. I was fine with it (the stranger was someone I had checked out and was a legit guy) but I broached the subject with him to see if he was comfortable. We were two or three sentences into the discussion, and out of the blue he said "Do whatever the fuck you want." Totally inappropriate to jump to DEFCON 5 in my book. Had he said "Hey, I'm just not comfortable with you doing that. Can you find another way to do it?" I would've of course said "yeah, I hear you. Let me rethink this."

This is typical of him - he goes from nice/reasonable to upset/nasty in a flash. He does this maybe 2-3 times a year. Clearly, this is his issue, not mine. But two days later, I'm feeling hurt and around the house we are being polite but barely speaking. He is not an apologizer, so I do not expect an apology. Also, I know that if I try to sit down and discuss this with him, he will drag out all my past "transgressions" (in other post-argument discussions past, one such transgression was that I went out to dinner with a group of moms from my son's sports team the week before I went on a vacation. So in my view at least, his thinking is a little bizarre...).

Anyway, I am wondering how you fellow detachers would handle this. I typically eventually act like nothing's wrong and move on. Again, it's his issue, not mine. Thanks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is so much power in stepping back and disentangling yourself, not being in a highly reactive state all the time. It took me two decades of struggle with my partner.

It was only when I truly, finally understood at a gut level that I can't control others, only myself, that I started to find more peace. This applies even more if your partner has serious issues they are working on.

I am angry, no doubt about it, at injustices in my partnership, in the world, in life. That's the kind of person I am. But it's on me to handle my feelings and reactions to the world around me.

I let go of thinking I could change or control my parther's actions or feelings. I put all my focus into figuring out how to handle myself, into making life more positive for myself and everyone around me, and into communicating and dealing with him in a positive way.

Keep in mind, you have to do this with an understanding of what acceptable limits are on how you are treated and what you accept from others. There's a fine line between being resigned to and accepting others' behaviors and actually enabling others to get away with dumping things on you.

I think women really struggle with these issues with our partners because we get into childrearing mode, where we are always telling our kids what to do, teaching them, molding their behaviors, as it's part of our jobs as parents. NOT parenting our partners or random strangers means we have to make a conscious effort to switch that off.

New poster. Can you give some examples of this? This is where I am struggling. I do much more around the house than my husband but I can't think of a way to make him want to do more.

Reframe the question. What do you want to do, PP. Take your husband out of the picture. What are the things around the house that matter to you. Do those. Leave everything else to the side. What might happen is that you will stop doing things he really wants taken care of. In which case, he'll do them because you're not going to.

For example, I hate dealing with dry cleaning. The hours are awful, I am always rushed and the bulk of my clothes I don't need to dry clean that often. My husband gets his dress shirts cleaned on a weekly basis. I explained to him that I was only going to the dry cleaner once a month (with my stuff). His dirty shirts piled up, he asked me to go, I told him I didn't need anything cleaned and walked out the door to work. He took his stuff with him and now is keeping track of this. Because it matters to him. Not me.

But it's simple things like grocery shopping, cooking dinner, laundry, cleaning the bathrooms in between the cleaner's visits. All the mental gymnastics that a PP mentioned (keeping track of play dates, medical appointments, school stuff, holiday gift buying and wrapping). If I don't nag him to do these things, he just won't. So I have to do them on top of everything else including my own job.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is so much power in stepping back and disentangling yourself, not being in a highly reactive state all the time. It took me two decades of struggle with my partner.

It was only when I truly, finally understood at a gut level that I can't control others, only myself, that I started to find more peace. This applies even more if your partner has serious issues they are working on.

I am angry, no doubt about it, at injustices in my partnership, in the world, in life. That's the kind of person I am. But it's on me to handle my feelings and reactions to the world around me.

I let go of thinking I could change or control my parther's actions or feelings. I put all my focus into figuring out how to handle myself, into making life more positive for myself and everyone around me, and into communicating and dealing with him in a positive way.

Keep in mind, you have to do this with an understanding of what acceptable limits are on how you are treated and what you accept from others. There's a fine line between being resigned to and accepting others' behaviors and actually enabling others to get away with dumping things on you.

I think women really struggle with these issues with our partners because we get into childrearing mode, where we are always telling our kids what to do, teaching them, molding their behaviors, as it's part of our jobs as parents. NOT parenting our partners or random strangers means we have to make a conscious effort to switch that off.

New poster. Can you give some examples of this? This is where I am struggling. I do much more around the house than my husband but I can't think of a way to make him want to do more.

Reframe the question. What do you want to do, PP. Take your husband out of the picture. What are the things around the house that matter to you. Do those. Leave everything else to the side. What might happen is that you will stop doing things he really wants taken care of. In which case, he'll do them because you're not going to.

For example, I hate dealing with dry cleaning. The hours are awful, I am always rushed and the bulk of my clothes I don't need to dry clean that often. My husband gets his dress shirts cleaned on a weekly basis. I explained to him that I was only going to the dry cleaner once a month (with my stuff). His dirty shirts piled up, he asked me to go, I told him I didn't need anything cleaned and walked out the door to work. He took his stuff with him and now is keeping track of this. Because it matters to him. Not me.