Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Erdogan is President, not Prime Minister. Erdogan was elected in 2014. Wrong election to make your point.

Not only that, there was a subsequent election in November. The election the PP is referencing is irrelevant.

So the pp was referring to fraud in the election that Erdogan's party actually lost. But not the one in which he was elected, or the one which his party actually won.

Right. Apparently PP believes that Erdogan's party (AKP) committed fraud for the benefit of the opposition (CHP). Most likely, PP just frantically Googled "Turkish Elections wikipedia" and got that link. The OSCE monitored the November elections, by the way, and found issues with the pre-election period but not electoral fraud.

Finally, those blaming Obama for Erdogan and the AKP need to fire up their Google machines and figure out when Erdogan first came to power. I'm not going to spoil the surprise for them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen zero evidence that is happening. And if its the exiled former Erdogan ally Gulen (don't know a lot about him but an Islamist power play?) behind this, then whatever. Let them fight this out. I'm with ya. If it's secular forces that wish to restore true democracy, I pray for them.

Turn on a TV and get out of your denial. MSNBC is currently showing troops firing into the crowds while jets fly overhead.

Don't see Anything on MSNBC about troops firing into crowds.

I just watched it. It was in Ankara. I have no idea why you missed it. Read the post just above yours where the poster says "There is link after link & photo after photo of gruesome photos".

Where is the link?
Sounds like two Islamists fighting it out. OK . I agree the known element is better than unknown, and both are horrid.

TV shows don't have links. But, here is one video:

https://twitter.com/MahirZeynalov/status/754091488678711297

Thank you. The world is going to hell and Obama's 8 years of foreign policy are a total fail. Who to support? Isolationist Trump (reminds me of Obama). Or Hawk Hillary (so cynical and corrupt). Interesting conundrum. I am sorry Ataturk. Your dream is dying.

So it's Obama's fault that the Turks elected someone like Erdogan? Seems ironic given that half of the US supports Trump.

I was about to say, just like Egypt, how can people elect someone like this in the first place? Then I thought, wait, we may have a Trump presidency.....

Sure hope not.

The issue here, and in Venzuela is they are democratically elected the first time, and then systematically start dismantling civil society. They stack the legislature and judiciary, then force through changes in term limits, etc. Once they are in it is very very hard to get them out. Look at Venezuela. The people voted out Maduro in a referendum. But he's still there somehow.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen zero evidence that is happening. And if its the exiled former Erdogan ally Gulen (don't know a lot about him but an Islamist power play?) behind this, then whatever. Let them fight this out. I'm with ya. If it's secular forces that wish to restore true democracy, I pray for them.

Turn on a TV and get out of your denial. MSNBC is currently showing troops firing into the crowds while jets fly overhead.

Don't see Anything on MSNBC about troops firing into crowds.

I just watched it. It was in Ankara. I have no idea why you missed it. Read the post just above yours where the poster says "There is link after link & photo after photo of gruesome photos".

Where is the link?
Sounds like two Islamists fighting it out. OK . I agree the known element is better than unknown, and both are horrid.

TV shows don't have links. But, here is one video:

https://twitter.com/MahirZeynalov/status/754091488678711297

Thank you. The world is going to hell and Obama's 8 years of foreign policy are a total fail. Who to support? Isolationist Trump (reminds me of Obama). Or Hawk Hillary (so cynical and corrupt). Interesting conundrum. I am sorry Ataturk. Your dream is dying.

So it's Obama's fault that the Turks elected someone like Erdogan? Seems ironic given that half of the US supports Trump.

I was about to say, just like Egypt, how can people elect someone like this in the first place? Then I thought, wait, we may have a Trump presidency.....

Sure hope not.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Erdogan is President, not Prime Minister. Erdogan was elected in 2014. Wrong election to make your point.

Not only that, there was a subsequent election in November. The election the PP is referencing is irrelevant.

So the pp was referring to fraud in the election that Erdogan's party actually lost. But not the one in which he was elected, or the one which his party actually won.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen zero evidence that is happening. And if its the exiled former Erdogan ally Gulen (don't know a lot about him but an Islamist power play?) behind this, then whatever. Let them fight this out. I'm with ya. If it's secular forces that wish to restore true democracy, I pray for them.

Turn on a TV and get out of your denial. MSNBC is currently showing troops firing into the crowds while jets fly overhead.

Don't see Anything on MSNBC about troops firing into crowds.

I just watched it. It was in Ankara. I have no idea why you missed it. Read the post just above yours where the poster says "There is link after link & photo after photo of gruesome photos".

Where is the link?
Sounds like two Islamists fighting it out. OK . I agree the known element is better than unknown, and both are horrid.

TV shows don't have links. But, here is one video:

https://twitter.com/MahirZeynalov/status/754091488678711297

Thank you. The world is going to hell and Obama's 8 years of foreign policy are a total fail. Who to support? Isolationist Trump (reminds me of Obama). Or Hawk Hillary (so cynical and corrupt). Interesting conundrum. I am sorry Ataturk. Your dream is dying.

So it's Obama's fault that the Turks elected someone like Erdogan? Seems ironic given that half of the US supports Trump.

Of course it's not Obama's fault, but do you honestly feel that election was in any way honest? Of course he won. So did Putin.

Yes! Do you have accusations of voter fraud that you would like to share?

Hi, Ergodan. Rough night?

Did you follow the election at all?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_fraud_and_violence_during_the_Turkish_general_election,_June_2015

Google the issues with the election & the results. No, it wasn't outright fraud, but of course he strong armed his win just as Putin did.

If the coup plotters were trying to restore democracy then this is a black day

Anonymous wrote:Erdogan is President, not Prime Minister. Erdogan was elected in 2014. Wrong election to make your point.

Not only that, there was a subsequent election in November. The election the PP is referencing is irrelevant.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen zero evidence that is happening. And if its the exiled former Erdogan ally Gulen (don't know a lot about him but an Islamist power play?) behind this, then whatever. Let them fight this out. I'm with ya. If it's secular forces that wish to restore true democracy, I pray for them.

Turn on a TV and get out of your denial. MSNBC is currently showing troops firing into the crowds while jets fly overhead.

Don't see Anything on MSNBC about troops firing into crowds.

I just watched it. It was in Ankara. I have no idea why you missed it. Read the post just above yours where the poster says "There is link after link & photo after photo of gruesome photos".

Where is the link?
Sounds like two Islamists fighting it out. OK . I agree the known element is better than unknown, and both are horrid.

TV shows don't have links. But, here is one video:

https://twitter.com/MahirZeynalov/status/754091488678711297

Thank you. The world is going to hell and Obama's 8 years of foreign policy are a total fail. Who to support? Isolationist Trump (reminds me of Obama). Or Hawk Hillary (so cynical and corrupt). Interesting conundrum. I am sorry Ataturk. Your dream is dying.

So it's Obama's fault that the Turks elected someone like Erdogan? Seems ironic given that half of the US supports Trump.

Of course it's not Obama's fault, but do you honestly feel that election was in any way honest? Of course he won. So did Putin.

Yes! Do you have accusations of voter fraud that you would like to share?

Hi, Ergodan. Rough night?

Did you follow the election at all?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_fraud_and_violence_during_the_Turkish_general_election,_June_2015

Google the issues with the election & the results. No, it wasn't outright fraud, but of course he strong armed his win just as Putin did.

Erdogan is President, not Prime Minister. Erdogan was elected in 2014. Wrong election to make your point.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen zero evidence that is happening. And if its the exiled former Erdogan ally Gulen (don't know a lot about him but an Islamist power play?) behind this, then whatever. Let them fight this out. I'm with ya. If it's secular forces that wish to restore true democracy, I pray for them.

Turn on a TV and get out of your denial. MSNBC is currently showing troops firing into the crowds while jets fly overhead.

Don't see Anything on MSNBC about troops firing into crowds.

I just watched it. It was in Ankara. I have no idea why you missed it. Read the post just above yours where the poster says "There is link after link & photo after photo of gruesome photos".

Where is the link?
Sounds like two Islamists fighting it out. OK . I agree the known element is better than unknown, and both are horrid.

TV shows don't have links. But, here is one video:

https://twitter.com/MahirZeynalov/status/754091488678711297

Thank you. The world is going to hell and Obama's 8 years of foreign policy are a total fail. Who to support? Isolationist Trump (reminds me of Obama). Or Hawk Hillary (so cynical and corrupt). Interesting conundrum. I am sorry Ataturk. Your dream is dying.

So it's Obama's fault that the Turks elected someone like Erdogan? Seems ironic given that half of the US supports Trump.

Of course it's not Obama's fault, but do you honestly feel that election was in any way honest? Of course he won. So did Putin.

Yes! Do you have accusations of voter fraud that you would like to share?

Hi, Ergodan. Rough night?

Did you follow the election at all?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_fraud_and_violence_during_the_Turkish_general_election,_June_2015

Google the issues with the election & the results. No, it wasn't outright fraud, but of course he strong armed his win just as Putin did.

TBH, what could Obama do here? Turkey is a member of NATO and Erdogan is democratically elected. Yet on the other side of things, Erdogan increasingly acts in a way that is not consistent with a western definition of democracy. There are no obvious answers here.

The US civil war was 80 years after independence--Attaturk died what, 75 years ago? Modern Turkey was surely due for a major conflagration.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen zero evidence that is happening. And if its the exiled former Erdogan ally Gulen (don't know a lot about him but an Islamist power play?) behind this, then whatever. Let them fight this out. I'm with ya. If it's secular forces that wish to restore true democracy, I pray for them.

Turn on a TV and get out of your denial. MSNBC is currently showing troops firing into the crowds while jets fly overhead.

Don't see Anything on MSNBC about troops firing into crowds.

I just watched it. It was in Ankara. I have no idea why you missed it. Read the post just above yours where the poster says "There is link after link & photo after photo of gruesome photos".

Where is the link?
Sounds like two Islamists fighting it out. OK . I agree the known element is better than unknown, and both are horrid.

TV shows don't have links. But, here is one video:

https://twitter.com/MahirZeynalov/status/754091488678711297

Thank you. The world is going to hell and Obama's 8 years of foreign policy are a total fail. Who to support? Isolationist Trump (reminds me of Obama). Or Hawk Hillary (so cynical and corrupt). Interesting conundrum. I am sorry Ataturk. Your dream is dying.

So it's Obama's fault that the Turks elected someone like Erdogan? Seems ironic given that half of the US supports Trump.

Of course it's not Obama's fault, but do you honestly feel that election was in any way honest? Of course he won. So did Putin.

Yes! Do you have accusations of voter fraud that you would like to share?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen zero evidence that is happening. And if its the exiled former Erdogan ally Gulen (don't know a lot about him but an Islamist power play?) behind this, then whatever. Let them fight this out. I'm with ya. If it's secular forces that wish to restore true democracy, I pray for them.

Turn on a TV and get out of your denial. MSNBC is currently showing troops firing into the crowds while jets fly overhead.

Don't see Anything on MSNBC about troops firing into crowds.

I just watched it. It was in Ankara. I have no idea why you missed it. Read the post just above yours where the poster says "There is link after link & photo after photo of gruesome photos".

Where is the link?
Sounds like two Islamists fighting it out. OK . I agree the known element is better than unknown, and both are horrid.

TV shows don't have links. But, here is one video:

https://twitter.com/MahirZeynalov/status/754091488678711297

Thank you. The world is going to hell and Obama's 8 years of foreign policy are a total fail. Who to support? Isolationist Trump (reminds me of Obama). Or Hawk Hillary (so cynical and corrupt). Interesting conundrum. I am sorry Ataturk. Your dream is dying.

So it's Obama's fault that the Turks elected someone like Erdogan? Seems ironic given that half of the US supports Trump.

Of course it's not Obama's fault, but do you honestly feel that election was in any way honest? Of course he won. So did Putin.

It's already been disturbing that Erdogan is driving an ever increasing push toward Islamist authoritarianism. He will no doubt use this as an excuse to push his agenda even more aggressively.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have seen zero evidence that is happening. And if its the exiled former Erdogan ally Gulen (don't know a lot about him but an Islamist power play?) behind this, then whatever. Let them fight this out. I'm with ya. If it's secular forces that wish to restore true democracy, I pray for them.

Turn on a TV and get out of your denial. MSNBC is currently showing troops firing into the crowds while jets fly overhead.

Don't see Anything on MSNBC about troops firing into crowds.

I just watched it. It was in Ankara. I have no idea why you missed it. Read the post just above yours where the poster says "There is link after link & photo after photo of gruesome photos".

Where is the link?
Sounds like two Islamists fighting it out. OK . I agree the known element is better than unknown, and both are horrid.

TV shows don't have links. But, here is one video:

https://twitter.com/MahirZeynalov/status/754091488678711297

Thank you. The world is going to hell and Obama's 8 years of foreign policy are a total fail. Who to support? Isolationist Trump (reminds me of Obama). Or Hawk Hillary (so cynical and corrupt). Interesting conundrum. I am sorry Ataturk. Your dream is dying.

So it's Obama's fault that the Turks elected someone like Erdogan? Seems ironic given that half of the US supports Trump.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure Erdogan had secured the support of top generals in the hours before the coup started. Yes, this gives him an excuse to clamp down.

But how the devil would it be better for us to support a failing coup or worse yet intervene militarily like some of the anti Obama nut jobs seem to be hinting that we need to do?

We should not have intervened but I still think Ergodan is a sociopath and feel terrible for the people of turkey.

Yeah I agree. He's a democratically elected leader who cares more about power than democracy. Unfortunately the coup will give him the excuse he's looking for to consolidate even more power.

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure Erdogan had secured the support of top generals in the hours before the coup started. Yes, this gives him an excuse to clamp down.

But how the devil would it be better for us to support a failing coup or worse yet intervene militarily like some of the anti Obama nut jobs seem to be hinting that we need to do?

We should not have intervened but I still think Ergodan is a sociopath and feel terrible for the people of turkey.