Anonymous wrote:I have to admit, I skipped a few pages. My DH was going out for drinks after work without telling me. When I found out by accident he invited me and her spouse to meet them after work.
I didn't think anything of it before then. He got so drunk and we were out very late. The other husband and I Were very uncomfortable. His coworker was actually on her knees tying my DH's (her boss!) shoes. He was such an asshole the whole night.
I have not felt the same about him since.

OMG. Wow. Well, no wonder you haven't felt the same about him since. HA!

Anonymous wrote:I have to admit, I skipped a few pages. My DH was going out for drinks after work without telling me. When I found out by accident he invited me and her spouse to meet them after work.
I didn't think anything of it before then. He got so drunk and we were out very late. The other husband and I Were very uncomfortable. His coworker was actually on her knees tying my DH's (her boss!) shoes. He was such an asshole the whole night.
I have not felt the same about him since.

Sorry - that's awful.

I have to admit, I skipped a few pages. My DH was going out for drinks after work without telling me. When I found out by accident he invited me and her spouse to meet them after work.
I didn't think anything of it before then. He got so drunk and we were out very late. The other husband and I Were very uncomfortable. His coworker was actually on her knees tying my DH's (her boss!) shoes. He was such an asshole the whole night.
I have not felt the same about him since.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some responses seem to indicate that if a man is even slightly attracted to a female colleague then he shouldn't meet up for lunch. It's tough to beat back biology but it seems to me that if we want to get to a place where women and men are treated equally in the workplace then we shouldn't be criticizing two colleagues going to lunch because of a natural inclination toward attractive people of the opposite sex. On occasion I go to lunch with 3 female colleagues who are all attractive, and also brilliant. So am I supposed to deprive myself of stimulating professional conversation because my lower brain occasionally notices that they are pretty?

Right... Everyone believes you - so you work at a strip club then?

Whoa whoa whoa. This has NOTHING to do with "equality in the workplace". How is your (clearly lower) brain equating the two?

If management AT THE WORKPLACE or the WORKPLACE was criticizing two colleagues for interacting because someone might think someone is attractive, that would be directly affecting equality in the workplace, which you have strong feelings about (hahaha).

This has EVERYthing to do with personal accountability.

Dude posts he has issues with the womans attractiveness. He does not say it quite like that, but really, what else was the point of his post? So we could reassure him its ok to notice someone is attractive? He seems instead to be seeking permission to do something that he swears isnt going to lead to doing something else, but then why would be even post? His Red Herring was wondering if she might be drawn to him. Dude is confused. Dude has issues. Dude is actually being avoidant of the issues while presenting as if he is seeking knowledge and input. Dude is silly. Don't be like Dude.

Ok so the first post was one of the most thoughtful and insightful posts on this thread. I'm impressed with pp. The retort is lacking all such insight. Pp, you seem to think it's just "rules" that hold women (and probably POC) back. It's not. We've actually done a pretty good job of fixing the rules. It's societal norms that take a while to adjust. First pp hit the nail on the head.

No. THe poster of the this original post included this statement: it seems to me that if we want to get to a place where women and men are treated equally in the workplace then we shouldn't be criticizing two colleagues going to lunch because of a natural inclination toward attractive people of the opposite sex.

We are not talking about the workplace. Silly OP dude is NOT ASKING about the workplace. He is not asking about equality. He is asking simply if a married man and single woman should have lunch even if its purely professional and threw in the thing about her attractiveness.

He is the one hinting at mixing apples and oranges all over the place, but this poster made that more obvious.

Societal norms are the aggregate of people's actions over time and the point of intersection here is one mans confused thoughts on the matter, expressed imperfectly because its hard to express perfectly. He deserves the ribbing he signed himself up for. On the other hand the people who pointed out the personal side of this like "Does your wife know about these lunches?" are getting more to the meat of the matter.

OP's handwringing is silly. Very human. Very silly. He knows it, on some level. I just dont believe he would have ever posted if he didnt think she was hot, even if he thought she was attracted to HIM.

Ah well.

Actually, first pp posits a general goal, which I for one share with him. Perhaps, you pp, don't. Like I said, you seem to think everything's all good for the ladeez, just so long as management doesn't explicitly stand in the way of their career goals. Just like how we got rid of segregation a long time ago, why he hell do black people still have problems? Op may not have asked specifically about his employer but first pp is a big thinker. Next pp not so much.

First PP here, Thank you.

Oh hey you're welcome. I'm a scientist too. Guess we are the only smart ones. You wanna get lunch sometime?

He's attracted to this woman and doesn't want his wife to know because he fears she would sense that he's hoping that an affair develops. He likes having the attention of a beautiful woman and feeling alive with possibility. I suspect that he would be crushed if this woman wasn't attracted to him.

Interesting thread.

In this particular case, I think the OP is headed for trouble. Not because of the single woman/married man dynamic but because he has the hots for this woman. Otherwise, I think it is perfectly fine for friends/professional colleagues to meet occasionally for lunch so long as it is not purposefully hidden.

And TBH, if I were the type of person to be concerned about this issue, I would be less threatened by the woman he sees 3-4 times a year and more concerned about the co-workers he sees every day.

In this case, OP, you're in trouble.

The first red flag is that you won't tell your wife. You are enjoying this fantasy of what could happen and how hot you are for this woman, while you're hiding from your wife the fact that you're going on lunch dates with a woman you find very attractive.

If you were thinking straight, and truly wanted to protect your marriage and family, your wife, and yourself, you'd tell her. So why don't you? Because once your wife knows, it's going to be hard to hide from yourself and from her. Deep down, you're loving the idea that something "could just happen." This is hard to let go of, but it's playing with fire.

I'm sorry if this offends you, but you're also a bit of a walking cliche. As a man in your mid-forties, you are extraordinarily vulnerable to this mid-life fantasy, and as I look around at the men I know who've gone through this age, it's a rare one who didn't have your feelings and struggle through some version of your situation. Many take it too far and end up hurting their wives and families, and even destroying them.

Mid-life is a weird time, when you start to feel a little desperate. You're looking at your mortality, your disappointments in yourself and life and others, your fears that the best stuff is over and you're maybe never going to have some experiences. Many guys look around and see they're losing their youth and it's all downhill, and they're never going to have that excitement of a new woman, and so instead of looking inward and figuring out how to handle it, they fall into fantasy and looking for someone, anyone, to make them feel better--young, excited, exciting, etc.

You're asking for permission here to continue going down a path you know is foolish.

Anonymous wrote:Op you have to make a pass and report back. We need validation. Do it today. TIA

+100 this is a ten page thread...time to make a move

Op you have to make a pass and report back. We need validation. Do it today. TIA

Anonymous wrote:OP. My wife does not know. There are/have been other lady friends from work over the years that I have disclosed to her and in fact she has become friends with them. Nothing to hide. The issue here is if I tell my wife about this one she may get some suspicion simply because this woman is just really very gorgeous and same age as I. My wife knows this is the kind of woman I'm attracted to - intelligent, accomplished, beautiful professional woman.

If you tell her, then it is fine. Otherwise, not OK, and don't do it. Because you want to take it further.

Anonymous wrote:OP - invite other people to your lunches so you're not going alone. Problem solved.

That or stop asking her. A married man has no business doing that. Go with the guys or a group.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a male friend whom I have lunch with on a regular basis. Have been doing so for years. His wife doesn't know. He says that she's nuts and he's waiting for his last child (senior now) to graduate and he's leaving. No, he's not after me. Yes, I'm married and my DH knows about my friend. I love talking to him because I learn everything NOT to do to aan if you don't want to drive him away.

I'm quite positive he will be dating women a good 10yrs younger than him one he's free. Good for him. You crazy jealous women are awful and everyone is aware you are horrible partnets, except you.

You're a young twit. The fact he would be degrading his wife and marriage to a little nitwit from work already speaks volumes about this loser. A decent person doesn't say bad things about their spouse and certainly doesn't tell intimate details to some little ninny who is dumb enough to believe his self serving story. And certainly NOT to a co-worker.

I will bet he would easily cheat. Cheaters always lie and tell how awful their spouse is, jealous is the common one. He fits the pattern. I will bet he's never getting divorced unless she throws him out, lol.

We've been friends for 15 years. I'm older than him ad he needs to vent. Lots of people stick in miserable marriages until the kids leave. I don't work with him, but OK.

He has not had an affair to my knowledge, but he should.

You're a nitwit. He's chosen you as a lunch partner for that reason only - enjoy.

Exactly, what I was trying to say. Lights on nobody home.

Anonymous wrote:OP. My wife does not know. There are/have been other lady friends from work over the years that I have disclosed to her and in fact she has become friends with them. Nothing to hide. The issue here is if I tell my wife about this one she may get some suspicion simply because this woman is just really very gorgeous and same age as I. My wife knows this is the kind of woman I'm attracted to - intelligent, accomplished, beautiful professional woman.

Yeah, no. This is inappropriate behavior. Your attraction has told you to hide it from your wife. If this is really, which I'm starting to doubt based on how dumb you sound.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have to admit when I was single in my late 20's I went to lunch with just about the same frequency with an older co-worker and yes, it was a lot about seeing if he would go and kind of flirty and an ego boost for me that he would schedule these lunches with me.
A few months would go by without contact and I would want a little bit of attention and we would go out to lunch. Rinse and repeat for a few years.
I would dig my heels in and act offended and horrified if anyone suggested it was anything but a friendly lunch, but 15 years later I can admit what my intention was. If he would have made a move, I probably would have gone for it.
And I assume he enjoyed the attention and flirtation too.

I have been the man in that situation. So while I am in the camp that agrees there is nothing wrong with lunch or drinks between men and women, there is often, in my experience, a sexual tension if both are attractive and flirty. Doesn't mean someone is going to act on it. Flirting itself is harmless.

Yes, but a good man doesn't put himself in this kind of situation. It can be hard to find out that your man isn't a good man, even as he is getting older.

At my gym there are two men that like me. One asks me to go places with him and do things with him - which I would never in a million years entertain because it's not reasonable behavior for a married woman. Nor am I interested but even if I was how would I explain to my kids who this man is? How about to my mom? My friends? The husband?
If he were a friend of my family and someone I could bring home and introduce and include in family and work functions then yes. But really all he is is a guy from the gym who seems to have the hots for me. So no - we are not going anywhere together. Frankly I don't even know his name.

That's what this relationship seems to be - two people with the hots for each other having lunch together and trying to justify it. Yuck.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a male friend whom I have lunch with on a regular basis. Have been doing so for years. His wife doesn't know. He says that she's nuts and he's waiting for his last child (senior now) to graduate and he's leaving. No, he's not after me. Yes, I'm married and my DH knows about my friend. I love talking to him because I learn everything NOT to do to aan if you don't want to drive him away.

I'm quite positive he will be dating women a good 10yrs younger than him one he's free. Good for him. You crazy jealous women are awful and everyone is aware you are horrible partnets, except you.

You're a young twit. The fact he would be degrading his wife and marriage to a little nitwit from work already speaks volumes about this loser. A decent person doesn't say bad things about their spouse and certainly doesn't tell intimate details to some little ninny who is dumb enough to believe his self serving story. And certainly NOT to a co-worker.

I will bet he would easily cheat. Cheaters always lie and tell how awful their spouse is, jealous is the common one. He fits the pattern. I will bet he's never getting divorced unless she throws him out, lol.

We've been friends for 15 years. I'm older than him ad he needs to vent. Lots of people stick in miserable marriages until the kids leave. I don't work with him, but OK.

He has not had an affair to my knowledge, but he should.

No he should divorce then date like anyone else. Stop dissing his wife and mother of his child. I was with someone who behind my back would say bad things about me, saying I was jealous etc. The reality was he was a back stabber, cheater, abuser who did the same with all his exe's. On the outside he seemed like the nicest guy, and would pull the same thing this guy is doing. He would make a point of having female friends I wasn't friends with or didn't know about. It seems the only thing you know about the wife is through him.

That is awful!