Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Man accidentally shoots himself in the ass while reaching for his wallet at Home Depot"

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/12/28/responsible-gun-owner-butt/

From my experience, this is the typical level of caution, training and responsibility (or more properly lack thereof) that the average gun owner has.

No amount of caution, training, and responsibility will stop these types of stories. They will certainly minimize them, but end them, nope. Accidents happen, always do, always will. It would be like saying your going to end auto accidents with better caution, training, and responsibility. Not going to happen. Best bet for reducing auto accidents is fully autonomous cars and banning personal driving.

Um, NO.

Pretty far from "accidents happen" and "we can try to minimize them" based on my own experiences growing up around guns and having military training.

Loaded gun, one in the chamber, and safety off, tucked in your waistband. Can't get much more stupid, uncautious, untrained and irresponsible than that.

Oh I agree it's a stupid and irresponsible. I'm just saying you cannot train away stupid and irresponsible. Even in the military you have many service men injured and killed from accidents. Sometimes more military men die from accidents in a year than from combat.

That's someone who should not have a gun. There should at a minimum be mandatory gun safety training and testing before people are allowed to own one.

Rest assured he most likely had training and passed a test. But just because he did doesn't make him immune from accidents or thinking it won't happen to him. People use bad judgement all the time, even when they know its bad.

Oh yeah, trained and passed a test... maybe like this "gun safety expert" who was "training" a bunch of people at a church and accidentally gut-shot the pastor. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/pastor-shot-gun-safety-class_56710f4ee4b0688701db93d3

The vast majority of gun owners including many of the so-called experts and trainers are horrifically incompetent and irresponsible.

I would say that is totally false. With 350 million guns in the US if the fast majority of owners were incompetent and irresponsible you would have millions of "accidents" a year.
Think about it, use your brain, not your emotions.

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:Here is another case of a gun owner protecting herself from an intruder:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-mom-accidentally-shot-killed-daughter-20151230-story.html

Oops! The "intruder" was her daughter. Sadly, the gun did what it was supposed to do and the daughter is dead.

Here's another one - http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/daily-southtown/crime/ct-sta-midlothian-robbery-stopped-st-1218-20151216-story.html

We can do this all day. These incident links are pretty much meaningless grandstanding. For both sides of the issue.

No, you can't. The number of shootings, whether accidental by incompetent gun owners, or whether intentional attacks that were not deterred or prevented by "good guys with guns" by far outweigh the "stopped robbery" stories by several orders of magnitude.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Man accidentally shoots himself in the ass while reaching for his wallet at Home Depot"

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/12/28/responsible-gun-owner-butt/

From my experience, this is the typical level of caution, training and responsibility (or more properly lack thereof) that the average gun owner has.

No amount of caution, training, and responsibility will stop these types of stories. They will certainly minimize them, but end them, nope. Accidents happen, always do, always will. It would be like saying your going to end auto accidents with better caution, training, and responsibility. Not going to happen. Best bet for reducing auto accidents is fully autonomous cars and banning personal driving.

Um, NO.

Pretty far from "accidents happen" and "we can try to minimize them" based on my own experiences growing up around guns and having military training.

Loaded gun, one in the chamber, and safety off, tucked in your waistband. Can't get much more stupid, uncautious, untrained and irresponsible than that.

Oh I agree it's a stupid and irresponsible. I'm just saying you cannot train away stupid and irresponsible. Even in the military you have many service men injured and killed from accidents. Sometimes more military men die from accidents in a year than from combat.

That's someone who should not have a gun. There should at a minimum be mandatory gun safety training and testing before people are allowed to own one.

Rest assured he most likely had training and passed a test. But just because he did doesn't make him immune from accidents or thinking it won't happen to him. People use bad judgement all the time, even when they know its bad.

Oh yeah, trained and passed a test... maybe like this "gun safety expert" who was "training" a bunch of people at a church and accidentally gut-shot the pastor. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/pastor-shot-gun-safety-class_56710f4ee4b0688701db93d3

The vast majority of gun owners including many of the so-called experts and trainers are horrifically incompetent and irresponsible.

jsteele wrote:Here is another case of a gun owner protecting herself from an intruder:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-mom-accidentally-shot-killed-daughter-20151230-story.html

Oops! The "intruder" was her daughter. Sadly, the gun did what it was supposed to do and the daughter is dead.

Here's another one - http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/daily-southtown/crime/ct-sta-midlothian-robbery-stopped-st-1218-20151216-story.html

We can do this all day. These incident links are pretty much meaningless grandstanding. For both sides of the issue.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Man accidentally shoots himself in the ass while reaching for his wallet at Home Depot"

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/12/28/responsible-gun-owner-butt/

From my experience, this is the typical level of caution, training and responsibility (or more properly lack thereof) that the average gun owner has.

No amount of caution, training, and responsibility will stop these types of stories. They will certainly minimize them, but end them, nope. Accidents happen, always do, always will. It would be like saying your going to end auto accidents with better caution, training, and responsibility. Not going to happen. Best bet for reducing auto accidents is fully autonomous cars and banning personal driving.

Um, NO.

Pretty far from "accidents happen" and "we can try to minimize them" based on my own experiences growing up around guns and having military training.

Loaded gun, one in the chamber, and safety off, tucked in your waistband. Can't get much more stupid, uncautious, untrained and irresponsible than that.

Oh I agree it's a stupid and irresponsible. I'm just saying you cannot train away stupid and irresponsible. Even in the military you have many service men injured and killed from accidents. Sometimes more military men die from accidents in a year than from combat.

That's someone who should not have a gun. There should at a minimum be mandatory gun safety training and testing before people are allowed to own one.

Rest assured he most likely had training and passed a test. But just because he did doesn't make him immune from accidents or thinking it won't happen to him. People use bad judgement all the time, even when they know its bad.

"Most likely?" Based on what? From what I've seen, there's a substantial number of gun owners who have not had any meaningful or appropriate training, who are totally clueless and don't know what they are doing.

Based on the fact that the article said he had a conceal carry permit. Which in most states require some sort of training/testing.

Here is another case of a gun owner protecting herself from an intruder:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-mom-accidentally-shot-killed-daughter-20151230-story.html

Oops! The "intruder" was her daughter. Sadly, the gun did what it was supposed to do and the daughter is dead.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Man accidentally shoots himself in the ass while reaching for his wallet at Home Depot"

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/12/28/responsible-gun-owner-butt/

From my experience, this is the typical level of caution, training and responsibility (or more properly lack thereof) that the average gun owner has.

No amount of caution, training, and responsibility will stop these types of stories. They will certainly minimize them, but end them, nope. Accidents happen, always do, always will. It would be like saying your going to end auto accidents with better caution, training, and responsibility. Not going to happen. Best bet for reducing auto accidents is fully autonomous cars and banning personal driving.

Um, NO.

Pretty far from "accidents happen" and "we can try to minimize them" based on my own experiences growing up around guns and having military training.

Loaded gun, one in the chamber, and safety off, tucked in your waistband. Can't get much more stupid, uncautious, untrained and irresponsible than that.

Oh I agree it's a stupid and irresponsible. I'm just saying you cannot train away stupid and irresponsible. Even in the military you have many service men injured and killed from accidents. Sometimes more military men die from accidents in a year than from combat.

That's someone who should not have a gun. There should at a minimum be mandatory gun safety training and testing before people are allowed to own one.

Rest assured he most likely had training and passed a test. But just because he did doesn't make him immune from accidents or thinking it won't happen to him. People use bad judgement all the time, even when they know its bad.

"Most likely?" Based on what? From what I've seen, there's a substantial number of gun owners who have not had any meaningful or appropriate training, who are totally clueless and don't know what they are doing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Man accidentally shoots himself in the ass while reaching for his wallet at Home Depot"

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/12/28/responsible-gun-owner-butt/

From my experience, this is the typical level of caution, training and responsibility (or more properly lack thereof) that the average gun owner has.

No amount of caution, training, and responsibility will stop these types of stories. They will certainly minimize them, but end them, nope. Accidents happen, always do, always will. It would be like saying your going to end auto accidents with better caution, training, and responsibility. Not going to happen. Best bet for reducing auto accidents is fully autonomous cars and banning personal driving.

Um, NO.

Pretty far from "accidents happen" and "we can try to minimize them" based on my own experiences growing up around guns and having military training.

Loaded gun, one in the chamber, and safety off, tucked in your waistband. Can't get much more stupid, uncautious, untrained and irresponsible than that.

Oh I agree it's a stupid and irresponsible. I'm just saying you cannot train away stupid and irresponsible. Even in the military you have many service men injured and killed from accidents. Sometimes more military men die from accidents in a year than from combat.

That's someone who should not have a gun. There should at a minimum be mandatory gun safety training and testing before people are allowed to own one.

Rest assured he most likely had training and passed a test. But just because he did doesn't make him immune from accidents or thinking it won't happen to him. People use bad judgement all the time, even when they know its bad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Man accidentally shoots himself in the ass while reaching for his wallet at Home Depot"

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/12/28/responsible-gun-owner-butt/

From my experience, this is the typical level of caution, training and responsibility (or more properly lack thereof) that the average gun owner has.

No amount of caution, training, and responsibility will stop these types of stories. They will certainly minimize them, but end them, nope. Accidents happen, always do, always will. It would be like saying your going to end auto accidents with better caution, training, and responsibility. Not going to happen. Best bet for reducing auto accidents is fully autonomous cars and banning personal driving.

Um, NO.

Pretty far from "accidents happen" and "we can try to minimize them" based on my own experiences growing up around guns and having military training.

Loaded gun, one in the chamber, and safety off, tucked in your waistband. Can't get much more stupid, uncautious, untrained and irresponsible than that.

Oh I agree it's a stupid and irresponsible. I'm just saying you cannot train away stupid and irresponsible. Even in the military you have many service men injured and killed from accidents. Sometimes more military men die from accidents in a year than from combat.

That's someone who should not have a gun. There should at a minimum be mandatory gun safety training and testing before people are allowed to own one.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh whoops I meant to reply to the guy who called me a coward.

And you replied w a stupid playground insult ("little lib")...

Some of us are lifelong shooters and even CCW permit holders who also think he NRA is a bunch of unhinged looney blowhards... Hardly "little libs."

I'm not an NRA member and I support reasonable gun restrictions. The problem is that, if you make ANY concessions on gun regulations, the democrats will take that as a sign that they can demand even more restrictive concessions. This is the pattern the left has taken on many issues (e.g., gay rights starting out just being civil unions which "would never be gay 'marriage', then turning around and demanding gay marriage, then demanding acceptance of "trans" people and so on and so forth). The NRA has figured out that you need to fight on every little issue and not give an inch, or the left will end up using their momentum to ban guns entirely.

Oh, bullshit. Hobby horses are for little children - I suggest you grow up and get off of yours.

It's a bullshit slippery slope argument that has no basis in reality. Democrats got the AWB and didn't get "more restrictive concessions" after that - in fact, the AWB expired, so Democrats went backwards, not in the direction you allege.

Sure, they got gay marriage, but basically your analogy of ever more concessions would have them not stopping until they forced every American into a gay marriage even if they are straight. They obviously didn't do that either.

I am a gun owner myself and I am totally in favor of implementing a series of common sense gun law reforms. I believe guns and gun owners should at a minimum be treated the same way as cars and drivers - with some basic eligibility criteria around background, health and age before being allowed to use a gun, with mandatory training, testing and licensure, with periodic licensure renewal processes. There should also be mandatory, robust documentation on EVERY gun transfer and registration that must also be periodically renewed. Guns must be accounted for. If a gun goes lost, missing, stolen, it should be reported. I also believe there should be liability insurance based on risk required for gun ownership, to pay for accidents or crimes. Given we've already successfully done this with a quarter billion cars in the US, I can't see how this could ever be considered an "infringement" or impossibility do also do with guns.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Man accidentally shoots himself in the ass while reaching for his wallet at Home Depot"

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/12/28/responsible-gun-owner-butt/

From my experience, this is the typical level of caution, training and responsibility (or more properly lack thereof) that the average gun owner has.

No amount of caution, training, and responsibility will stop these types of stories. They will certainly minimize them, but end them, nope. Accidents happen, always do, always will. It would be like saying your going to end auto accidents with better caution, training, and responsibility. Not going to happen. Best bet for reducing auto accidents is fully autonomous cars and banning personal driving.

Um, NO.

Pretty far from "accidents happen" and "we can try to minimize them" based on my own experiences growing up around guns and having military training.

Loaded gun, one in the chamber, and safety off, tucked in your waistband. Can't get much more stupid, uncautious, untrained and irresponsible than that.

Oh I agree it's a stupid and irresponsible. I'm just saying you cannot train away stupid and irresponsible. Even in the military you have many service men injured and killed from accidents. Sometimes more military men die from accidents in a year than from combat.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Man accidentally shoots himself in the ass while reaching for his wallet at Home Depot"

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/12/28/responsible-gun-owner-butt/

From my experience, this is the typical level of caution, training and responsibility (or more properly lack thereof) that the average gun owner has.

No amount of caution, training, and responsibility will stop these types of stories. They will certainly minimize them, but end them, nope. Accidents happen, always do, always will. It would be like saying your going to end auto accidents with better caution, training, and responsibility. Not going to happen. Best bet for reducing auto accidents is fully autonomous cars and banning personal driving.

Um, NO.

Pretty far from "accidents happen" and "we can try to minimize them" based on my own experiences growing up around guns and having military training.

Loaded gun, one in the chamber, and safety off, tucked in your waistband. Can't get much more stupid, uncautious, untrained and irresponsible than that.

Anonymous wrote:"Man accidentally shoots himself in the ass while reaching for his wallet at Home Depot"

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/12/28/responsible-gun-owner-butt/

From my experience, this is the typical level of caution, training and responsibility (or more properly lack thereof) that the average gun owner has.

No amount of caution, training, and responsibility will stop these types of stories. They will certainly minimize them, but end them, nope. Accidents happen, always do, always will. It would be like saying your going to end auto accidents with better caution, training, and responsibility. Not going to happen. Best bet for reducing auto accidents is fully autonomous cars and banning personal driving.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh whoops I meant to reply to the guy who called me a coward.

And you replied w a stupid playground insult ("little lib")...

Some of us are lifelong shooters and even CCW permit holders who also think he NRA is a bunch of unhinged looney blowhards... Hardly "little libs."

I'm not an NRA member and I support reasonable gun restrictions. The problem is that, if you make ANY concessions on gun regulations, the democrats will take that as a sign that they can demand even more restrictive concessions. This is the pattern the left has taken on many issues (e.g., gay rights starting out just being civil unions which "would never be gay 'marriage', then turning around and demanding gay marriage, then demanding acceptance of "trans" people and so on and so forth). The NRA has figured out that you need to fight on every little issue and not give an inch, or the left will end up using their momentum to ban guns entirely.

Oh, bullshit. Hobby horses are for little children - I suggest you grow up and get off of yours.

"Man accidentally shoots himself in the ass while reaching for his wallet at Home Depot"

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/12/28/responsible-gun-owner-butt/

From my experience, this is the typical level of caution, training and responsibility (or more properly lack thereof) that the average gun owner has.