I've read most of this thread and it makes no sense. If IB were even close to being as rigorous as AP, why wouldn't FCPS put it in the schools with more high-performing kids, not the low-SES schools? Either it's not as hard as some people like to claim or FCPS made a big blunder. It just doesn't add up. if I were OP, it would take me about 10 seconds to decide to stick with Langley.

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Anonymous wrote:What I don't understand is why people get all worked up about this? If you don't like the IB or AP program at your base school you can people place. Both programs have pluses and minuses. Shouldn't we be grateful that students are at least offered a choice? Instead you've got people yapping bizarre things like, "AP is better because more Asians choose it?" I mean honestly, can't we all just accept that different people want different things and there's no right answer except the program that's right for your kid?

It's an observation that the group that has the highest achievement levels in FCPS has a strong, demonstrable preference for AP. Where were you when people were yapping "IB is harder, IB is better"?

By that logic, it is neither IB or AP that is better. It's Kumon.

I know it all made sense in your head, but do you really not see how ridiculous it is once it's typed out?

Forget it. The idiot doesn't get it.

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Anonymous wrote:What I don't understand is why people get all worked up about this? If you don't like the IB or AP program at your base school you can people place. Both programs have pluses and minuses. Shouldn't we be grateful that students are at least offered a choice? Instead you've got people yapping bizarre things like, "AP is better because more Asians choose it?" I mean honestly, can't we all just accept that different people want different things and there's no right answer except the program that's right for your kid?

It's an observation that the group that has the highest achievement levels in FCPS has a strong, demonstrable preference for AP. Where were you when people were yapping "IB is harder, IB is better"?

By that logic, it is neither IB or AP that is better. It's Kumon.

I know it all made sense in your head, but do you really not see how ridiculous it is once it's typed out?

Anonymous wrote:What I don't understand is why people get all worked up about this? If you don't like the IB or AP program at your base school you can people place. Both programs have pluses and minuses. Shouldn't we be grateful that students are at least offered a choice? Instead you've got people yapping bizarre things like, "AP is better because more Asians choose it?" I mean honestly, can't we all just accept that different people want different things and there's no right answer except the program that's right for your kid?

It's an observation that the group that has the highest achievement levels in FCPS has a strong, demonstrable preference for AP. Where were you when people were yapping "IB is harder, IB is better"?

What I don't understand is why people get all worked up about this? If you don't like the IB or AP program at your base school you can people place. Both programs have pluses and minuses. Shouldn't we be grateful that students are at least offered a choice? Instead you've got people yapping bizarre things like, "AP is better because more Asians choose it?" I mean honestly, can't we all just accept that different people want different things and there's no right answer except the program that's right for your kid?

Anonymous wrote:I am Asian, I love IB.

There are exceptions to every general rule, but three that hold true in FCPS are that higher-performing schools generally have AP, Asians outperform other ethnic groups, and more Asians enroll in AP than IB. But, maybe an IB diploma will be useful in Singapore.

I am Asian, I love IB.

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Anonymous wrote:I've always understood that Asian families in FCPS place a tremendous value on education and college admissions. In 2014, 4508 Asian students took AP exams, and only 694 took IB exams. Basically, the ratio of AP schools to IB schools is 2:1 in FCPS, and the ratio of Asian students taking AP vs. IB is more like 6:1. I find that fairly compelling empirical evidence of where the area students seeking the greatest academic challenges tend to gravitate, and it's not IB.

This post is laughable (and mildly offensive).

IB does have a certain SWPL quality to it, doesn't it? Not surprised that Asians in FCPS strongly prefer the AP schools.

Anonymous wrote:I've always understood that Asian families in FCPS place a tremendous value on education and college admissions. In 2014, 4508 Asian students took AP exams, and only 694 took IB exams. Basically, the ratio of AP schools to IB schools is 2:1 in FCPS, and the ratio of Asian students taking AP vs. IB is more like 6:1. I find that fairly compelling empirical evidence of where the area students seeking the greatest academic challenges tend to gravitate, and it's not IB.

This post is laughable (and mildly offensive).

I've always understood that Asian families in FCPS place a tremendous value on education and college admissions. In 2014, 4508 Asian students took AP exams, and only 694 took IB exams. Basically, the ratio of AP schools to IB schools is 2:1 in FCPS, and the ratio of Asian students taking AP vs. IB is more like 6:1. I find that fairly compelling empirical evidence of where the area students seeking the greatest academic challenges tend to gravitate, and it's not IB.

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Anonymous wrote:Most IB programs in FCPS have no critical mass of IB diploma candidates. The numbers are underwhelming, to put it mildly.

Can you put up the numbers? What do you consider underwhelming?

IB diploma rates like 3.1% at Mount Vernon, 4.6% at Annandale, 6.3% at Lee, 7.8% at Edison, and 8.0% at Stuart for the Class of 2013. IB diploma candidates failing at rates like 30% at Edison, 40% at Mount Vernon and 46% at Stuart - same class.

That's particularly disappointing when you consider that each of those schools has a dedicated IB coordinator paid for by FCPS taxpayers.

I can't believe those numbers. Can you provide link?

They were in a FCPS press release summarizing AP and IB results for the Class of 2013.

Maybe I am looking at the wrong data but this link says 76% got IB diploma. http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/apibtest.shtml

Avg worldwide success level is about 80% so FCPS number's pretty close to avg. What am I missing?

Thanks for the link. So there are about twice as many AP schools as IB schools in FCPS, but about six times as many AP Scholars and AP Scholars with Distinction, and three times as many AP Scholars with Honor, as IB diploma graduates? In addition, the College Board recognizes "National AP Scholars," which reflects higher levels of performance than required for other AP Scholars OR for an IB diploma.

Looking at this, I can see why people prefer AP.

People prefer IB because it's easier to look impressive. It is a lot easier to become AP scholars and scholars with honors and distinctions than it is to get an IB diploma.

I'll assume you meant AP in your first sentence and not exploit your inability to edit.

Objectively, it's easier to become an AP Scholar or an AP Scholar with Honor than to get an IB diploma. AP Scholars with Distinction probably are comparable to IB diploma recipients, but there are far more of them because there's a much larger pool of high-achieving kids at AP schools. National AP Scholars have credentials that exceed those necessary for an IB diploma. But, you are correct in the sense that people may prefer an AP program with multiple categories of recognition. It's more "all or nothing" in IB, and usually it's nothing for IB students in FCPS.

My DC was a National AP scholar recipient and an IB diploma recipient. I can tell you being a National AP Scholar was easier and, at least for us, far less meaningful. IB diploma represented everything DC had worked for - all those nights and weekends trying to better himself. AP stuff was just taking multiple tests and scoring reasonable well.

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Anonymous wrote:Most IB programs in FCPS have no critical mass of IB diploma candidates. The numbers are underwhelming, to put it mildly.

Can you put up the numbers? What do you consider underwhelming?

IB diploma rates like 3.1% at Mount Vernon, 4.6% at Annandale, 6.3% at Lee, 7.8% at Edison, and 8.0% at Stuart for the Class of 2013. IB diploma candidates failing at rates like 30% at Edison, 40% at Mount Vernon and 46% at Stuart - same class.

That's particularly disappointing when you consider that each of those schools has a dedicated IB coordinator paid for by FCPS taxpayers.

I can't believe those numbers. Can you provide link?

They were in a FCPS press release summarizing AP and IB results for the Class of 2013.

Maybe I am looking at the wrong data but this link says 76% got IB diploma. http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/apibtest.shtml

Avg worldwide success level is about 80% so FCPS number's pretty close to avg. What am I missing?

Different year, and the information you cited doesn't address the low pass and participation rates at some schools.

The percentage of graduates of most IB schools in FCPS getting IB diplomas is very low, and at least in 2013 there weren't any schools over 20%. In effect, 80 to 97% of the graduates of IB schools were leaving without the credential that the entire school is expected to revolve around under the IBO guidelines.

http://www.fcps.edu/cco/pr/apib/2013/table11.pdf

I think you are misreading the table. The low percentages represent kids who got ID diploma/total number of graduate including all kids (IB and non IB). The question is what % of kids who are in IB diploma program complete the program which is what 76% in my earlier post indicate.

I think you are ignoring the table and simply asking a question more to your own liking.

Who cares if 100% of the IB diploma candidates get an IB diploma if we're paying through the nose for an under-subscribed program?

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Anonymous wrote:Most IB programs in FCPS have no critical mass of IB diploma candidates. The numbers are underwhelming, to put it mildly.

Can you put up the numbers? What do you consider underwhelming?

IB diploma rates like 3.1% at Mount Vernon, 4.6% at Annandale, 6.3% at Lee, 7.8% at Edison, and 8.0% at Stuart for the Class of 2013. IB diploma candidates failing at rates like 30% at Edison, 40% at Mount Vernon and 46% at Stuart - same class.

That's particularly disappointing when you consider that each of those schools has a dedicated IB coordinator paid for by FCPS taxpayers.

I can't believe those numbers. Can you provide link?

They were in a FCPS press release summarizing AP and IB results for the Class of 2013.

Maybe I am looking at the wrong data but this link says 76% got IB diploma. http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/apibtest.shtml

Avg worldwide success level is about 80% so FCPS number's pretty close to avg. What am I missing?

Thanks for the link. So there are about twice as many AP schools as IB schools in FCPS, but about six times as many AP Scholars and AP Scholars with Distinction, and three times as many AP Scholars with Honor, as IB diploma graduates? In addition, the College Board recognizes "National AP Scholars," which reflects higher levels of performance than required for other AP Scholars OR for an IB diploma.

Looking at this, I can see why people prefer AP.

People prefer IB because it's easier to look impressive. It is a lot easier to become AP scholars and scholars with honors and distinctions than it is to get an IB diploma.

I'll assume you meant AP in your first sentence and not exploit your inability to edit.

Objectively, it's easier to become an AP Scholar or an AP Scholar with Honor than to get an IB diploma. AP Scholars with Distinction probably are comparable to IB diploma recipients, but there are far more of them because there's a much larger pool of high-achieving kids at AP schools. National AP Scholars have credentials that exceed those necessary for an IB diploma. But, you are correct in the sense that people may prefer an AP program with multiple categories of recognition. It's more "all or nothing" in IB, and usually it's nothing for IB students in FCPS.

My DC was a National AP scholar recipient and an IB diploma recipient. I can tell you being a National AP Scholar was easier and, at least for us, far less meaningful. IB diploma represented everything DC had worked for - all those nights and weekends trying to better himself. AP stuff was just taking multiple tests and scoring reasonable well.

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You have made your point many times over. What are you trying to do - shame OP into pupil-placing in AP school because IB is SOOO BAAADDD for society?

Touch a nerve?

The point is that if we put AP in the IB schools, FCPS would save over 1.5 Million dollars. That is a start. It is not insignificant.

But newsflash! Not everyone wants to do AP. Many people don't like a program that focuses so much on passing multiple choice tests and prefer and approach that involves critical thinking and writing.

If we got rid of AAP centers we could save even more money and taxpayers wouldn't be paying to give a bunch of above average kids a special education.

I've had kids in both AP and IB classes, and I'd say this is a false dichotomy. The IB classes covered less material, but there was more classroom discussion and writing. AP classes in the humanities required critical thinking and writing, but they covered more material at a faster pace, and there were more tests to confirm students were keeping up.

Overall, I felt both had their benefits, but that IB is more aligned with the approach associated with European universities and that AP is better preparation for American universities, or at least the types of classes that students tend to take during their first and second years. I think it would be easier to transition from the AP approach to the IB approach than vice versa.

Thanks for one of the few balanced and noncombative posts on this thread!

Regarding the bold material -- This depends on the individual student. I know two families that each pupil placed two students in IB high schools (all four kids were assigned originally to AP high schools in FCPS). Three of those students are now in U.S. colleges (senior, junior and sophomore) and one graduated two years ago. All four did the full IB diploma, and all have said that they felt IB prepared them very well for the demands of college-level work, especially participating in seminars and doing lengthy research and writing without being daunted. I also know a couple of kids who did a ton of high school AP and were well prepared for college too. Really, around here, a kid can do either and gain a lot from it if he or she puts enough into it.

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Anonymous wrote:Most IB programs in FCPS have no critical mass of IB diploma candidates. The numbers are underwhelming, to put it mildly.

Can you put up the numbers? What do you consider underwhelming?

IB diploma rates like 3.1% at Mount Vernon, 4.6% at Annandale, 6.3% at Lee, 7.8% at Edison, and 8.0% at Stuart for the Class of 2013. IB diploma candidates failing at rates like 30% at Edison, 40% at Mount Vernon and 46% at Stuart - same class.

That's particularly disappointing when you consider that each of those schools has a dedicated IB coordinator paid for by FCPS taxpayers.

I can't believe those numbers. Can you provide link?

They were in a FCPS press release summarizing AP and IB results for the Class of 2013.

Maybe I am looking at the wrong data but this link says 76% got IB diploma. http://www.fcps.edu/is/aap/apibtest.shtml

Avg worldwide success level is about 80% so FCPS number's pretty close to avg. What am I missing?

Different year, and the information you cited doesn't address the low pass and participation rates at some schools.

The percentage of graduates of most IB schools in FCPS getting IB diplomas is very low, and at least in 2013 there weren't any schools over 20%. In effect, 80 to 97% of the graduates of IB schools were leaving without the credential that the entire school is expected to revolve around under the IBO guidelines.

http://www.fcps.edu/cco/pr/apib/2013/table11.pdf

I think you are misreading the table. The low percentages represent kids who got ID diploma/total number of graduate including all kids (IB and non IB). The question is what % of kids who are in IB diploma program complete the program which is what 76% in my earlier post indicate.