Anonymous wrote:

This is good, and interesting worthwhile advice for someone. But not the OP. Why? Because you made this decision BEFORE you had children. Before you married him. OP wants to disrupt their lives for no reason whatsoever, to chase some fantasy because she's read too many books in which the lead characters have hot sex and crazy chemistry. Or watched too much TV. And she's too immature to discuss it with her husband. Don't want to kiss during sex? Tell him. Want to try something different? Show him. He's too gentle? I'm guessing that's a trait that also makes him a good and caring father, husband, and physician.

Seriously, you can't just do that to your kids because you're not getting off enough. And PP, I understand your concern about the dynamics at play in your relationship--but she never mentioned anything like that, either.

True, which is why I advise for her to talk through this with him in therapy. But I posted my story to demonstrate the strong pull women feel to partner with men society deems as providers (see the "how can I marry a provider" thread). There's nothing wrong with wanting a provider. But it's very dysfunctional that people will prioritize the importance of that at all costs. Note the litany of responses ridiculing OP and calling her husband a "catch".

The idea that a woman's happiness is less important, or worse, unimportant, is a sexist issue that remains deeply ingrained in our society. Note: I am NOT suggesting that OP take destructive action within her family to prioritize her own happiness above her family's. I am saying that her happiness is important, and deserves her and her husband's attention.

Anonymous wrote:And please stop saying therapy. That will not help. If we go to couples counseling and all of this comes out, I do not see how that will improve the situation. It will just crush him and end our marriage.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I'm having trouble believing you are 39. You sound like you are 19. Don't you have any single female friends? What do they tell you about the dating scene in DC? It's not a picnic, let me tell you. More women than men.

seriously!
it reminds me of a friend who read "pride and prejudice" at age 37 and became very disappointed with her (very attractive) husband.

Snort. Romance novels are bad for women. lolz

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, perhaps my perspective may help you. I was you, but I said "no" to the guy.

In graduate school I met the perfect “on paper” guy. Smart, kind (to me), destined to be successful. Conventionally good-looking, wealthy family, etc. I come from a lefty, albeit well-off family, and am definitely quirky, so I was always confused by his dogged pursuit of me. Anyway, he was everything I was “supposed to” want. And the attention was initially flattering. I felt compelled to date him. So I did, at 27. We moved in together at 31, when we were 32, he was ready to propose. And it terrified me.

I knew that we weren’t compatible. But his utter assurance that we were and would have a great life was both confusing and made me doubt my own feelings. Didn’t I want a great life? Didn’t I want to be comfortable?

Well…of course. But something told me it would be a terrible mistake. I used to actually have dreams about a bird trapped in a cage, beating its wings against the bars while feathers exploded from the sides (cliché, I know). Still, I wasn’t convinced a guy this “solid” would come along again.

And I was right.

I had several serious relationships after that, but it did get harder as I got older, and I did notice, as PPs have pointed out, a decline in the quality of men as I and they aged. Sadly, ex is definitely the most “solid” guy in my history. At 37, I had a beautiful child on my own who is 3 now. I’m 41, and after taking a 4 year hiatus from dating, am putting myself out there again. It’s actually much easier than I thought it would be; I’ve had several sweet, successful divorced dads with young kids reach out to me (this is not everyone’s idea of perfect, I realize), and I think there’s a good one in there. But it won’t be easy; I grew up in a blended family and the step-parents/kids dynamic can be complex.

I know there are people who would read this and think, “Jesus. You could’ve had 3 kids, a huge house/vacation house, your career, a husband, and you gave all that up for what you wrote above??”

And the answer is yes. For me, that was what was right. My ex was all that I described: top of his class, “chiseled” good looks, treated me well. He also had a penchant for making fun of overweight people, came from a family with a hardcore ingrained gender roles that I was terrified we’d repeat, and was pretty bad in bed. These are just a few things, but they were some of the many things no one else knew but me. So he was “perfect”. Just not perfect for me.

My parents occasionally bring him up…how is Larlo doing? He’s good. He married a 100% vanilla-esque girl from our grad program (sounds bitchy, I know, but I think this was what he wanted, and good for him for finding it), and they just had their second child. We collaborated on a book together in our field, which is small, so we’re still in touch. And friendly.

When I look around my 2 bedroom condo in NW I think, occasionally, that I could have lived in AU park in a 5 bedroom house and been a member of the country club. The house I’d take. The country club? No thanks. It’s hard to have one without the other, which is a lot like life. Whether my choices are considered strange or not by others, I’ve lived life on my own terms. And that part I’ve never regretted.

I agree with others that therapy may help you connect with your spouse in ways that might surprise you. I wish I’d had the balls to talk to my ex frankly about sex, to tell him how horrified I was by the way his family treated his mother, etc. Maybe it would’ve made a difference. I suspect it would not have. But you’ve got a lot more invested, and I think it’s worth a try. If for no other reason than you can’t honestly get to the next step unless you’ve explored this first.

My best to you.

This is good, and interesting worthwhile advice for someone. But not the OP. Why? Because you made this decision BEFORE you had children. Before you married him. OP wants to disrupt their lives for no reason whatsoever, to chase some fantasy because she's read too many books in which the lead characters have hot sex and crazy chemistry. Or watched too much TV. And she's too immature to discuss it with her husband. Don't want to kiss during sex? Tell him. Want to try something different? Show him. He's too gentle? I'm guessing that's a trait that also makes him a good and caring father, husband, and physician.

Seriously, you can't just do that to your kids because you're not getting off enough. And PP, I understand your concern about the dynamics at play in your relationship--but she never mentioned anything like that, either.

And except the PP indicated that the guy had issues, ie, made fun of fat people, had ingrained gender role ideas, and she didn't like how he and family treated the mother. So, really, outwardly he seems perfect, but inwardly he wasn't. From what OP has wrote, her DH doesn't sound like an asshole inwardly.

This is good, and interesting worthwhile advice for someone. But not the OP. Why? Because you made this decision BEFORE you had children. Before you married him. OP wants to disrupt their lives for no reason whatsoever, to chase some fantasy because she's read too many books in which the lead characters have hot sex and crazy chemistry. Or watched too much TV. And she's too immature to discuss it with her husband. Don't want to kiss during sex? Tell him. Want to try something different? Show him. He's too gentle? I'm guessing that's a trait that also makes him a good and caring father, husband, and physician.

Seriously, you can't just do that to your kids because you're not getting off enough. And PP, I understand your concern about the dynamics at play in your relationship--but she never mentioned anything like that, either.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, perhaps my perspective may help you. I was you, but I said "no" to the guy.

In graduate school I met the perfect “on paper” guy. Smart, kind (to me), destined to be successful. Conventionally good-looking, wealthy family, etc. I come from a lefty, albeit well-off family, and am definitely quirky, so I was always confused by his dogged pursuit of me. Anyway, he was everything I was “supposed to” want. And the attention was initially flattering. I felt compelled to date him. So I did, at 27. We moved in together at 31, when we were 32, he was ready to propose. And it terrified me.

I knew that we weren’t compatible. But his utter assurance that we were and would have a great life was both confusing and made me doubt my own feelings. Didn’t I want a great life? Didn’t I want to be comfortable?

Well…of course. But something told me it would be a terrible mistake. I used to actually have dreams about a bird trapped in a cage, beating its wings against the bars while feathers exploded from the sides (cliché, I know). Still, I wasn’t convinced a guy this “solid” would come along again.

And I was right.

I had several serious relationships after that, but it did get harder as I got older, and I did notice, as PPs have pointed out, a decline in the quality of men as I and they aged. Sadly, ex is definitely the most “solid” guy in my history. At 37, I had a beautiful child on my own who is 3 now. I’m 41, and after taking a 4 year hiatus from dating, am putting myself out there again. It’s actually much easier than I thought it would be; I’ve had several sweet, successful divorced dads with young kids reach out to me (this is not everyone’s idea of perfect, I realize), and I think there’s a good one in there. But it won’t be easy; I grew up in a blended family and the step-parents/kids dynamic can be complex.

I know there are people who would read this and think, “Jesus. You could’ve had 3 kids, a huge house/vacation house, your career, a husband, and you gave all that up for what you wrote above??”

And the answer is yes. For me, that was what was right. My ex was all that I described: top of his class, “chiseled” good looks, treated me well. He also had a penchant for making fun of overweight people, came from a family with a hardcore ingrained gender roles that I was terrified we’d repeat, and was pretty bad in bed. These are just a few things, but they were some of the many things no one else knew but me. So he was “perfect”. Just not perfect for me.

My parents occasionally bring him up…how is Larlo doing? He’s good. He married a 100% vanilla-esque girl from our grad program (sounds bitchy, I know, but I think this was what he wanted, and good for him for finding it), and they just had their second child. We collaborated on a book together in our field, which is small, so we’re still in touch. And friendly.

When I look around my 2 bedroom condo in NW I think, occasionally, that I could have lived in AU park in a 5 bedroom house and been a member of the country club. The house I’d take. The country club? No thanks. It’s hard to have one without the other, which is a lot like life. Whether my choices are considered strange or not by others, I’ve lived life on my own terms. And that part I’ve never regretted.

I agree with others that therapy may help you connect with your spouse in ways that might surprise you. I wish I’d had the balls to talk to my ex frankly about sex, to tell him how horrified I was by the way his family treated his mother, etc. Maybe it would’ve made a difference. I suspect it would not have. But you’ve got a lot more invested, and I think it’s worth a try. If for no other reason than you can’t honestly get to the next step unless you’ve explored this first.

My best to you.

This is good, and interesting worthwhile advice for someone. But not the OP. Why? Because you made this decision BEFORE you had children. Before you married him. OP wants to disrupt their lives for no reason whatsoever, to chase some fantasy because she's read too many books in which the lead characters have hot sex and crazy chemistry. Or watched too much TV. And she's too immature to discuss it with her husband. Don't want to kiss during sex? Tell him. Want to try something different? Show him. He's too gentle? I'm guessing that's a trait that also makes him a good and caring father, husband, and physician.

Seriously, you can't just do that to your kids because you're not getting off enough. And PP, I understand your concern about the dynamics at play in your relationship--but she never mentioned anything like that, either.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not him specifically. I don't think we will get back together. We're barely even in contact anymore. But I want someone like him. Just less disfunctional and angry at the world.

Is it not his being an angry person that makes him rough during sex? Not sure if you can really have one without the other, unless the roughness like with your husband would be an act that a guy may or may not be comfortable with?

OP here. Maybe. It probably has something to do with the level of caring about the other person. It sounds sick but I think I liked being the pursuer instead of the pursuee. If that makes any sense.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
LOL
what makes you think such guy exist and wants to be with you? why didn't you find "someone like him just less dysfunctional" when you were 30?

Maybe she wasn't ready for the right person yet back then, because she hadn't learned the important lesson that appearances and "perfect on paper" don't really matter. Now she knows and may be ready to meet the person who is right for her, no matter how imperfect he may seem to others. She may need to ignore what others such as her mom and her best friend think.

right, she has now learned that what really matters is rough sex. good look pursuing that!

Yes, she is being honest with herself. Other women have expressed the same about liking rough sex. Why should she stay in a miserable situation with skin crawling at her husband's touch, all out of fear that she won't find someone else? Why be so pessimistic? A person should not make their decisions based on pessimism and fear. There probably is someone better for her out there, and for her husband as well, someone who likes a more gentle person.

she is being selectively honest with herself - she knows what she wants IN ADDITION to everything else she has. she is not realistic about that thing actually being achievable.

I don't know that she wants all she currently has, everything good about her DH, with the one difference that the sex would be rough. I don't think she said that? She must know that it will be a tradeoff in some way. The thing is that you can't tell yourself all the good things, the list you could read on paper, and make your feelings change. If she could wave a magic wand and have the good facts about her DH make a difference, she would, but she can't. It does no good to point out the great things about the DH. Reviewing in her mind all the good things won't make chemistry magically appear for OP.

Now maybe if there is some issue about anger in her past (a parent like her father was angry? she is angry herself but not expressing it?) that could be worked out in therapy, and the interest in rough sex would disappear? I do not know.

so fu**king what? she needs to suck it up. she is not that special.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not him specifically. I don't think we will get back together. We're barely even in contact anymore. But I want someone like him. Just less disfunctional and angry at the world.

Is it not his being an angry person that makes him rough during sex? Not sure if you can really have one without the other, unless the roughness like with your husband would be an act that a guy may or may not be comfortable with?

Anonymous wrote:OP, perhaps my perspective may help you. I was you, but I said "no" to the guy.

In graduate school I met the perfect “on paper” guy. Smart, kind (to me), destined to be successful. Conventionally good-looking, wealthy family, etc. I come from a lefty, albeit well-off family, and am definitely quirky, so I was always confused by his dogged pursuit of me. Anyway, he was everything I was “supposed to” want. And the attention was initially flattering. I felt compelled to date him. So I did, at 27. We moved in together at 31, when we were 32, he was ready to propose. And it terrified me.

I knew that we weren’t compatible. But his utter assurance that we were and would have a great life was both confusing and made me doubt my own feelings. Didn’t I want a great life? Didn’t I want to be comfortable?

Well…of course. But something told me it would be a terrible mistake. I used to actually have dreams about a bird trapped in a cage, beating its wings against the bars while feathers exploded from the sides (cliché, I know). Still, I wasn’t convinced a guy this “solid” would come along again.

And I was right.

I had several serious relationships after that, but it did get harder as I got older, and I did notice, as PPs have pointed out, a decline in the quality of men as I and they aged. Sadly, ex is definitely the most “solid” guy in my history. At 37, I had a beautiful child on my own who is 3 now. I’m 41, and after taking a 4 year hiatus from dating, am putting myself out there again. It’s actually much easier than I thought it would be; I’ve had several sweet, successful divorced dads with young kids reach out to me (this is not everyone’s idea of perfect, I realize), and I think there’s a good one in there. But it won’t be easy; I grew up in a blended family and the step-parents/kids dynamic can be complex.

I know there are people who would read this and think, “Jesus. You could’ve had 3 kids, a huge house/vacation house, your career, a husband, and you gave all that up for what you wrote above??”

And the answer is yes. For me, that was what was right. My ex was all that I described: top of his class, “chiseled” good looks, treated me well. He also had a penchant for making fun of overweight people, came from a family with a hardcore ingrained gender roles that I was terrified we’d repeat, and was pretty bad in bed. These are just a few things, but they were some of the many things no one else knew but me. So he was “perfect”. Just not perfect for me.

My parents occasionally bring him up…how is Larlo doing? He’s good. He married a 100% vanilla-esque girl from our grad program (sounds bitchy, I know, but I think this was what he wanted, and good for him for finding it), and they just had their second child. We collaborated on a book together in our field, which is small, so we’re still in touch. And friendly.

When I look around my 2 bedroom condo in NW I think, occasionally, that I could have lived in AU park in a 5 bedroom house and been a member of the country club. The house I’d take. The country club? No thanks. It’s hard to have one without the other, which is a lot like life. Whether my choices are considered strange or not by others, I’ve lived life on my own terms. And that part I’ve never regretted.

I agree with others that therapy may help you connect with your spouse in ways that might surprise you. I wish I’d had the balls to talk to my ex frankly about sex, to tell him how horrified I was by the way his family treated his mother, etc. Maybe it would’ve made a difference. I suspect it would not have. But you’ve got a lot more invested, and I think it’s worth a try. If for no other reason than you can’t honestly get to the next step unless you’ve explored this first.

My best to you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I'm having trouble believing you are 39. You sound like you are 19. Don't you have any single female friends? What do they tell you about the dating scene in DC? It's not a picnic, let me tell you. More women than men.

seriously!
it reminds me of a friend who read "pride and prejudice" at age 37 and became very disappointed with her (very attractive) husband.