Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hitting your child is wrong. Using physical force against anyone is wrong really but against children it is even worse. I am going to repeat that as many times as it takes for people to understand. Children deserve to grow up without violence. They deserve parents who care enough to work out other ways than hurting their children. No child deserves to be hurt. I don't care which made up arguments you people use to justify what you are doing. It's just so sad. Sad for all these kids who grow up believing that what their parents do to them is right. Because children love their parents no matter what their parents do to them. That's how innocent children are. And you take that and use it to hurt your kids. I am reading this thread and I can't believe that people are seriously allowed to do this to their kids and even brag about it online. You would be fined or even arrested in many other countries in the world for doing what you are claiming to be normal here.

And? In many countries you'd be stoned for daring to wear western clothes, for talking to a man that you are not related to. There are things about the US that bug me, too, but it's really annoying when people compare cultures. If it bugs you so much, move to one of those countries you admire so much.

Those "many countries" you are talking about are not the ones I am talking about. Clearly. And I am sure you knew that before posting. I am talking about countries as advanced or more advanced than the US. Countries with similar cultures, economies, social set ups etc. In short: comparable countries. Which is the whole reason why it should make people think why the US still isn't one of those countries to outlaw corporal punishment...

And guess what...I did move. I have learned about so many things that are absolutely unacceptable to me that are legal, normal and even proclaimed good in the US that I could not stand living here any longer. Where I live now I can hand people who harm their children over to the police and they will be dealt with appropriately. I don't have to stand by watching innocent children being hurt anymore. And I am VERY thankful for that.

the most powerful countries in the world still allow spanking. In what way are those other countries more advanced?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hitting your child is wrong. Using physical force against anyone is wrong really but against children it is even worse. I am going to repeat that as many times as it takes for people to understand. Children deserve to grow up without violence. They deserve parents who care enough to work out other ways than hurting their children. No child deserves to be hurt. I don't care which made up arguments you people use to justify what you are doing. It's just so sad. Sad for all these kids who grow up believing that what their parents do to them is right. Because children love their parents no matter what their parents do to them. That's how innocent children are. And you take that and use it to hurt your kids. I am reading this thread and I can't believe that people are seriously allowed to do this to their kids and even brag about it online. You would be fined or even arrested in many other countries in the world for doing what you are claiming to be normal here.

And? In many countries you'd be stoned for daring to wear western clothes, for talking to a man that you are not related to. There are things about the US that bug me, too, but it's really annoying when people compare cultures. If it bugs you so much, move to one of those countries you admire so much.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hitting your child is wrong. Using physical force against anyone is wrong really but against children it is even worse. I am going to repeat that as many times as it takes for people to understand. Children deserve to grow up without violence. They deserve parents who care enough to work out other ways than hurting their children. No child deserves to be hurt. I don't care which made up arguments you people use to justify what you are doing. It's just so sad. Sad for all these kids who grow up believing that what their parents do to them is right. Because children love their parents no matter what their parents do to them. That's how innocent children are. And you take that and use it to hurt your kids. I am reading this thread and I can't believe that people are seriously allowed to do this to their kids and even brag about it online. You would be fined or even arrested in many other countries in the world for doing what you are claiming to be normal here.

And? In many countries you'd be stoned for daring to wear western clothes, for talking to a man that you are not related to. There are things about the US that bug me, too, but it's really annoying when people compare cultures. If it bugs you so much, move to one of those countries you admire so much.

Those "many countries" you are talking about are not the ones I am talking about. Clearly. And I am sure you knew that before posting. I am talking about countries as advanced or more advanced than the US. Countries with similar cultures, economies, social set ups etc. In short: comparable countries. Which is the whole reason why it should make people think why the US still isn't one of those countries to outlaw corporal punishment...

And guess what...I did move. I have learned about so many things that are absolutely unacceptable to me that are legal, normal and even proclaimed good in the US that I could not stand living here any longer. Where I live now I can hand people who harm their children over to the police and they will be dealt with appropriately. I don't have to stand by watching innocent children being hurt anymore. And I am VERY thankful for that.

Then you would do well to stay off a site that is for DC-area parents. Spanking is a perfectly valid, perfectly legal disciplinary measure in the United States. Deal with it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hitting your child is wrong. Using physical force against anyone is wrong really but against children it is even worse. I am going to repeat that as many times as it takes for people to understand. Children deserve to grow up without violence. They deserve parents who care enough to work out other ways than hurting their children. No child deserves to be hurt. I don't care which made up arguments you people use to justify what you are doing. It's just so sad. Sad for all these kids who grow up believing that what their parents do to them is right. Because children love their parents no matter what their parents do to them. That's how innocent children are. And you take that and use it to hurt your kids. I am reading this thread and I can't believe that people are seriously allowed to do this to their kids and even brag about it online. You would be fined or even arrested in many other countries in the world for doing what you are claiming to be normal here.

And? In many countries you'd be stoned for daring to wear western clothes, for talking to a man that you are not related to. There are things about the US that bug me, too, but it's really annoying when people compare cultures. If it bugs you so much, move to one of those countries you admire so much.

Those "many countries" you are talking about are not the ones I am talking about. Clearly. And I am sure you knew that before posting. I am talking about countries as advanced or more advanced than the US. Countries with similar cultures, economies, social set ups etc. In short: comparable countries. Which is the whole reason why it should make people think why the US still isn't one of those countries to outlaw corporal punishment...

And guess what...I did move. I have learned about so many things that are absolutely unacceptable to me that are legal, normal and even proclaimed good in the US that I could not stand living here any longer. Where I live now I can hand people who harm their children over to the police and they will be dealt with appropriately. I don't have to stand by watching innocent children being hurt anymore. And I am VERY thankful for that.

Anonymous wrote:Hitting your child is wrong. Using physical force against anyone is wrong really but against children it is even worse. I am going to repeat that as many times as it takes for people to understand. Children deserve to grow up without violence. They deserve parents who care enough to work out other ways than hurting their children. No child deserves to be hurt. I don't care which made up arguments you people use to justify what you are doing. It's just so sad. Sad for all these kids who grow up believing that what their parents do to them is right. Because children love their parents no matter what their parents do to them. That's how innocent children are. And you take that and use it to hurt your kids. I am reading this thread and I can't believe that people are seriously allowed to do this to their kids and even brag about it online. You would be fined or even arrested in many other countries in the world for doing what you are claiming to be normal here.

And? In many countries you'd be stoned for daring to wear western clothes, for talking to a man that you are not related to. There are things about the US that bug me, too, but it's really annoying when people compare cultures. If it bugs you so much, move to one of those countries you admire so much.

Hitting your child is wrong. Using physical force against anyone is wrong really but against children it is even worse. I am going to repeat that as many times as it takes for people to understand. Children deserve to grow up without violence. They deserve parents who care enough to work out other ways than hurting their children. No child deserves to be hurt. I don't care which made up arguments you people use to justify what you are doing. It's just so sad. Sad for all these kids who grow up believing that what their parents do to them is right. Because children love their parents no matter what their parents do to them. That's how innocent children are. And you take that and use it to hurt your kids. I am reading this thread and I can't believe that people are seriously allowed to do this to their kids and even brag about it online. You would be fined or even arrested in many other countries in the world for doing what you are claiming to be normal here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm late to the party, but ... isn't it hard to teach a child not to hit when you're hitting them?

this assumes that the point of the lecture (spanking) is not to hit anyone, ever. while in fact the point is not to hit the parent.

But is a child going to understand that concept? My child hits me, so I hit him back to teach him not to hit me?
I parent by modeling the behavior that I expect from my children.

You can't parent solely by modeling. Otherwise your kid would have a job, husband, cook and drive. A parent being allowed spank does not mean that somehow the child is allowed to hit the parent any more than a child can take your ipad, send you to bed or give you a timeout. there is no contradiction, parents do many things and their kids are not allowed to do.

And I don't spank btw.

The things that you list - cooking, driving, etc - are skills and abilities, not behavior. There's a difference. Of course I don't let my toddler chop carrots with a knife so that she can model my ACTIONS and do the same. I DO expect my children to model behavior, though: speaking kindly, handling the cat gently, saying please and thank you, etc.
I don't consider

I also did not intend to imply that I parent solely by modeling. But it does accomplish a lot in a positive manner.

driving and cooking are behaviors that require certain skills, but also maturity. it's not for kids. the point is that arguments against spanking which are based on absolutely symmetry (parent can't spank because kids are not allowed to hit etc) do not work. there is no 100% symmetry between parents and kids.

as for modeling, presumably spankers on the thread use that, too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm late to the party, but ... isn't it hard to teach a child not to hit when you're hitting them?

this assumes that the point of the lecture (spanking) is not to hit anyone, ever. while in fact the point is not to hit the parent.

But is a child going to understand that concept? My child hits me, so I hit him back to teach him not to hit me?
I parent by modeling the behavior that I expect from my children.

You can't parent solely by modeling. Otherwise your kid would have a job, husband, cook and drive. A parent being allowed spank does not mean that somehow the child is allowed to hit the parent any more than a child can take your ipad, send you to bed or give you a timeout. there is no contradiction, parents do many things and their kids are not allowed to do.

And I don't spank btw.

The things that you list - cooking, driving, etc - are skills and abilities, not behavior. There's a difference. Of course I don't let my toddler chop carrots with a knife so that she can model my ACTIONS and do the same. I DO expect my children to model behavior, though: speaking kindly, handling the cat gently, saying please and thank you, etc.
I don't consider

I also did not intend to imply that I parent solely by modeling. But it does accomplish a lot in a positive manner.

Indeed it does. But modeling as you describe in your argument's revision, and punishment that may include spanking, are not mutually exclusive.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm late to the party, but ... isn't it hard to teach a child not to hit when you're hitting them?

this assumes that the point of the lecture (spanking) is not to hit anyone, ever. while in fact the point is not to hit the parent.

But is a child going to understand that concept? My child hits me, so I hit him back to teach him not to hit me?
I parent by modeling the behavior that I expect from my children.

You can't parent solely by modeling. Otherwise your kid would have a job, husband, cook and drive. A parent being allowed spank does not mean that somehow the child is allowed to hit the parent any more than a child can take your ipad, send you to bed or give you a timeout. there is no contradiction, parents do many things and their kids are not allowed to do.

And I don't spank btw.

The things that you list - cooking, driving, etc - are skills and abilities, not behavior. There's a difference. Of course I don't let my toddler chop carrots with a knife so that she can model my ACTIONS and do the same. I DO expect my children to model behavior, though: speaking kindly, handling the cat gently, saying please and thank you, etc.
I don't consider

I also did not intend to imply that I parent solely by modeling. But it does accomplish a lot in a positive manner.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm late to the party, but ... isn't it hard to teach a child not to hit when you're hitting them?

this assumes that the point of the lecture (spanking) is not to hit anyone, ever. while in fact the point is not to hit the parent.

But is a child going to understand that concept? My child hits me, so I hit him back to teach him not to hit me?
I parent by modeling the behavior that I expect from my children.

You can't parent solely by modeling. Otherwise your kid would have a job, husband, cook and drive. A parent being allowed spank does not mean that somehow the child is allowed to hit the parent any more than a child can take your ipad, send you to bed or give you a timeout. there is no contradiction, parents do many things and their kids are not allowed to do.

And I don't spank btw.

Thank You! Finally someone understands the logic here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm late to the party, but ... isn't it hard to teach a child not to hit when you're hitting them?

this assumes that the point of the lecture (spanking) is not to hit anyone, ever. while in fact the point is not to hit the parent.

But is a child going to understand that concept? My child hits me, so I hit him back to teach him not to hit me?
I parent by modeling the behavior that I expect from my children.

You can't parent solely by modeling. Otherwise your kid would have a job, husband, cook and drive. A parent being allowed spank does not mean that somehow the child is allowed to hit the parent any more than a child can take your ipad, send you to bed or give you a timeout. there is no contradiction, parents do many things and their kids are not allowed to do.

And I don't spank btw.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm late to the party, but ... isn't it hard to teach a child not to hit when you're hitting them?

this assumes that the point of the lecture (spanking) is not to hit anyone, ever. while in fact the point is not to hit the parent.

But is a child going to understand that concept? My child hits me, so I hit him back to teach him not to hit me?
I parent by modeling the behavior that I expect from my children.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How old is the child, OP? A three or four year old being a holy terror, not being able to go out to eat, hitting, is unfortunate but not out of the realm of normal. But that isn't average behavior for a 6 year old, and if you child is school age (even preschool) I think its time to talk to the teachers and see what is up. Maybe your kid needs some help with emotional regulation and impulsivity. If so, spanking really won't help, because it doesn't teach those things. Your kid can't exercise control he doesn't yet have. So my first step in your case wouldn't be to decide on how to punish, but to figure out what is going on with your guy. Start with the pediatrician and the teachers.

3 and it was the teachers that declared it a problem. I thought this was how all 3 year olds behave-op

Is he like this at home? How do you handle?

On occasion. But rarely. Bad behaviors they say were nipped immediately at home. As the year has progressed no behaviors )the hitting )
started. This is rare at home and much more frequent at school (3-5 days a week) .not acceptable.-op

Does he like going to school? Is it always the same child(ren) or teacher? Is there any teasing, from or to him prior to the hitting?

I think so. But he does feel he is a bad boy now. The hitting aggression comes out when he is reprimand for another thing. For example being silly at lunch gets your removed fromthe table. He hits teacher in response. Also, when he feels he is wronged (like when someone else starts a scuffle but he steps in/ or defends himself, or joins in silliness) we think he is the one that gets caught. There is a bit of labeling going on as well. But hitting an adult that is not hurting you is just not acceptable.
Another poster asked what my thought was swat in response to a hit was a demonstration of this hurts me. - op

You need to nip that in the bud. A child becomes what everyone tells him or her that she is.

Of course hitting the teacher is not appropriate. However, it does sound like this woman has a sort of vendetta against your child for some reason. I think that's what you need to focus on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a wide range here. But I don't believe any parent when he or she says they spank in a controlled manner..absent of his or her own anger. I think that is utter bullshit. You spank because you are fed up and angry and out of control yourself...and seriously people just need to own this.

Eh.. I'm against spanking but I was spanked (rarely) and I always remember it being a very controlled thing.

Like, my parents would actually let me choose whether to be spanked or, e.g., not get popcorn. I remember this instance very clearly. It was when I let a strange dog in the house. I think I was like 6. They didn't seem out of control or angry at all, they were just disciplining me.

Allowing a child to chose how s/he will be punished thwarts the very concept of punishment, IMO.

Anonymous wrote:That's a reasonable analysis. When I got spanked, it was kind of a big deal, but I didn't resent or hate them for it. I always felt like it was deserved, and really that I probably had gotten too many chances, if anything.

We spank our kids from time to time. It's not that often. I don't see anything illogical about it (not saying this just to argue). The whole "teach them not to hit, but then you hit" doesn't really hold water when you also teach them not to steal, but then take away their toys. It comes down to authority.

You intentionally hurt your children. You don't feel bad about it at all. You are twisted. Where is your love for your kids? Where is your respect? Why on earth would you want your kids to learn that being hit is in any way okay?! That hitting others is okay? There is no grey area when it comes to physically harming someone. Either you do it or you don't do it - if you hit your child you are hurting your child. It is unbelievable that that could be acceptable in any advanced modern society...