We all know that the number of designated affordable housing units in N/S is about equal. But, citizens do not allow and the county do not build large low income housing buildings (versus set aside units in new buildings) in the north. Only in the south. That coupled with the concentration of market rate yet cheap housing around the western end of the Pike is the problem both for economic development in that area and more importantly for the schools. However you categorize it - market rate, affordable, what ever, does not matter anymore for the western Pike. It is a very poor area and many of the commercial establishments nearby prey on those very people. The schools that serve that area do not have the seats for the kids and they are underperforming - and they are title I schools. So, South Arlington should not be scattering the affordable units across new developments in the county, not concentrating them into pockets of poverty.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:22:43 so, then the affordable housing in arlington is not doing the job you say it can. If that were true, s arlington schools would have the scores equal to north arlington.

But the affordable housing we are talking about (the "committed" affordable housing provided by the county/private partnerships) is not concentrated in South Arlington. An economist in our neighborhood studied this recently and found that the number of affordable housing units in north and south Arlington are almost exactly the same. These units do, for the most part, have one thing in common, but it's not a South Arlington location. If you plot the affordable housing units on a county map, you will see that they are clustered on or near major thoroughfares and bus routes. Columbia Pike is just one example.

So, it's not affordable housing that is making South Arlington poorer. It's the fact that the market rate affordable housing (a very different thing) is clustered in South Arlington. The market - not the county - has dictated that.

Yes and no. This is actually a self perpetuating problem in the west end on the Pike. Land is cheaper- so AHC comes in and builds "the shell", which is entirely affordable units. The value of the land stagnates because of exisiting affordable housing, so AHC developes the lot next to it because it's cheaper, and creates another building entirely of affordable housing. It keeps the cycle going and concentrates the poverty over a couple of blocks on the western end of the Pike. Thus creating a bit of a project.
This is what I don't want to see continue. If this is the plan, I think we need a new one.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:22:43 so, then the affordable housing in arlington is not doing the job you say it can. If that were true, s arlington schools would have the scores equal to north arlington.

But the affordable housing we are talking about (the "committed" affordable housing provided by the county/private partnerships) is not concentrated in South Arlington. An economist in our neighborhood studied this recently and found that the number of affordable housing units in north and south Arlington are almost exactly the same. These units do, for the most part, have one thing in common, but it's not a South Arlington location. If you plot the affordable housing units on a county map, you will see that they are clustered on or near major thoroughfares and bus routes. Columbia Pike is just one example.

So, it's not affordable housing that is making South Arlington poorer. It's the fact that the market rate affordable housing (a very different thing) is clustered in South Arlington. The market - not the county - has dictated that.

I'd love to see the study your neighborhood did. I find all of this fascinating. I had brought up market rate affordable earlier in the thread. You are correct. Most of the affordable units along Colimbia Pike are market rate. The county counts them among their affordable housing, but these buildings can be renovated/ torn down and become high end rentals or condos. That was my point earlier that the county has waited too long to strategize how they are going to keep affordable housing in the county. There is a lot of talk about the importance of it, and they have a couple of projects coming up, but they can't hold onto the number they've got now. I wish I could remember the number of units lost over the last decade. It's not slowing. The gentrification of South Arlington is real.
Interesting what was said about children thriving in commited affordable housing and are stressed in market rate affordable. That makes sense, but I hadn't considered that before.
There are some very nice and well maintained garden apartments along the Pike. I'd actually hate to see them all go. The complexes ( Quebec and Westmont apts) near my neighborhood are full of very nice neighbors. They are older buildings, but I find them charming and safe. I'm glad people who earn less have good options for housing and good schools for their kids.
Now Barcroft... That place can't be torn down soon enough. It's shameful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We live in S Arl (near the Pike) and love it.

Our income is in the mid 400's and we could afford most of N Arl but chose to live here for the diversity and for our elementary school that gives preference to S Arl families.

That said, the school's all over the county are a mess with all the overcrowding, the focus on testing etc (in my opinion) and so we are headed to private school in the fall. North Arlington schools are not an option either in my opinion as the overcrowding and emphasis on test scores is the same there.

I'm a supporter of affordable housing. The kids who live in well-run, committed affordable housing communities do better in school as the families are in more stable/supported environments. It's the kids who are constantly moving or that are in market rate affordable housing units that struggle more.

We

I thought the move was away from putting up projects except in Alexandria

Actually it is Alexandria that is doing away with "projects" and moving toward scattered site affordable housing. The Berg in the heart of Old Town is slowly being replaced with expensive townhouses as is the stretch of public housing between Washington St and Rt 1.

Arlington has moved to concentrating affordable units in individual buildings, such as the new built as Glebe and Carlin Springs and the newer building at Columbia Pike and Four Mile Run. Arlington tried scattered site housing by making builders set aside units in new buildings as affordable. Unfortunately Arlington did not consider the cost of condo fees that had to be paid by those who bought the affordable units. The fees were too high, so the units had to be sold at market rate. Proceeds were used for the affordable housing fund to which new housing builds must also contribute

To the person who mentioned that a good deal of committed affordable housing is in North Arlington, much of that is concentrated in units for the elderly at Culpeper Gardens, Hunter Park and the Carlin. A bank robber was recently apprehended at the Carlin when he visited his grandmother. Other than The Claridge in Crystal City, most of the South Arlington committed housing is occupied by younger people who contribute more to the school and social problems

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We live in S Arl (near the Pike) and love it.

Our income is in the mid 400's and we could afford most of N Arl but chose to live here for the diversity and for our elementary school that gives preference to S Arl families.

That said, the school's all over the county are a mess with all the overcrowding, the focus on testing etc (in my opinion) and so we are headed to private school in the fall. North Arlington schools are not an option either in my opinion as the overcrowding and emphasis on test scores is the same there.

I'm a supporter of affordable housing. The kids who live in well-run, committed affordable housing communities do better in school as the families are in more stable/supported environments. It's the kids who are constantly moving or that are in market rate affordable housing units that struggle more.

We

I thought the move was away from putting up projects except in Alexandria

Alexandria is not putting up "more projects" It is replacing the old units that were in the section of upper Old Town, and distributing them throughout the city. When new developers come in, Alexandria encourages them to set aside a percentage of units for affordable, but that ends up being a rather small amount.

Alexandria is similar in many ways to South Arlington. As PPs have noted, its not really about the officially designated units of affordable housing, its the "market rate affordable housing". This is housing that is affordable not because it's mandated by any regulation, but because the landlords are choosing to maintain cheap housing.

As in South Arlington, the economic forces are shifting (perhaps more slowly than some would like, but shifting.) The owners of the old garden-style apartments that line Beauregard Ave in Alexandria have decided that is makes more economic sense for them to tear down those units and replace with more expensive housing. Yes, they agreed to set aside a small number of units and make them designated affordable housing, but the rest will be a market rate, and that market rate with be significantly higher, and therefore most of the families that are currently living there will have to move.

This is a huge project that will take years to fully roll out, but it should have a significant impact on the west end of Alexandria.
We bought in Alexandria 10 years ago on the west end of town. We are one of the brave souls that is regularly abused and ridiculed on DCUM because we send our kids to Alexandria City Public Schools (the same kind of vitriol I often hear about South Arlington schools.) I'm content with our current situation, and do not need to anxiously hold my breath for some huge rapid change, but do I think Alexandria (and South Arlington) is going to improve? Yes. These market rate affordable units are under no government regulation to stay "affordable." The market forces will continue to encourage landlords of cheaper apartments to upscale.

The progressive in me will be sad to lose some of the diversity that currently surrounds me. The taxpayer in me recognizes that it will be easier if this higher need population is dispersed more widely throughout the DC Metro region, and not so highly concentrated in pockets such as Alexandria and South Arlington.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My hope for the pike in the next 5 years....

In addition to Chipotle - I would love a Pilates/barre Studio at the corner of Glebe/Columbia Pike as well as a few more small cafes with (outdoor?) seating.

A Whole Foods or HT where the food star is in addition to a few different options there in terms of restaurants or even kids classes. (Expand Evolve? or a JW tumbles type place?)

Add a spin class to the above!
The Pike gets worse as you move west, which I don't think is a secret. It used to be Glebe was a border of sorts, but now that pike 3400 has gone up, it appears the line has moved back again. It's now George Mason. Turning that Food Star into a descent grocery would do a lot to improve things.
Of course now there have been increased rumblings to put Metro under the Pike. It would take decades, but would be the best solution for transportation.

Haha the border was South Courthouse in 2002, I was the only vanilla in the caramel and chocolate on the 16 buses -- maybe it'd gotten to Glebe by the time you moved in.

I lived in Dundree Knolls, the TH complex between Oakland and Quincy. I honestly don't remember what was on the SW corner of Glebe and the Pike, is that where the Chipotle, Menchie's, etc., are going in? We've got a Menchie's in Frederick too now

See, I do have fond memories of South Arlington, it's not all bad, you just gotta be careful + lucky and it seems the lucky percentage has gotten better since I was there.

Crappy neighbor's guy is illustrating beautifully just how much change has already happened.
We moved in to Douglas Park in '09- so not that recently , and I have no idea about what this guy is talking about. The area he is describing doesn't exist anymore. Although, it's very interesting hearing about what has changed.
Move on in OP. There is still time before 650k won't allow you to buy in.... But it's running out.

Dundree Knolls still exists, it's the 3800 block of South 9th Road. It's on the north side of the Pike between Oakland and Quincy. I drove through the area 2-3 years ago to show my DD where we used to live. They'd put up tan siding to replace the pastels that were there in the 80s and some Googling reveals they did more renovations in 2010.

Not sure why you say "it doesn't exist anymore." Now some of the other stuff I've talked about has gone away, but not the THs on the north side of the Pike between Quincy and Oakland.

Yeah, what I wrote wasn't clear. I wasn't referring to where you lived- more the places along the Pike. it seems very different now, compared to when you lived here. Which is pretty amazing considering you haven't been gone that long.

Anonymous wrote:We live in S Arl (near the Pike) and love it.

Our income is in the mid 400's and we could afford most of N Arl but chose to live here for the diversity and for our elementary school that gives preference to S Arl families.

That said, the school's all over the county are a mess with all the overcrowding, the focus on testing etc (in my opinion) and so we are headed to private school in the fall. North Arlington schools are not an option either in my opinion as the overcrowding and emphasis on test scores is the same there.

I'm a supporter of affordable housing. The kids who live in well-run, committed affordable housing communities do better in school as the families are in more stable/supported environments. It's the kids who are constantly moving or that are in market rate affordable housing units that struggle more.

We

I thought the move was away from putting up projects except in Alexandria

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My hope for the pike in the next 5 years....

In addition to Chipotle - I would love a Pilates/barre Studio at the corner of Glebe/Columbia Pike as well as a few more small cafes with (outdoor?) seating.

A Whole Foods or HT where the food star is in addition to a few different options there in terms of restaurants or even kids classes. (Expand Evolve? or a JW tumbles type place?)

Add a spin class to the above!
The Pike gets worse as you move west, which I don't think is a secret. It used to be Glebe was a border of sorts, but now that pike 3400 has gone up, it appears the line has moved back again. It's now George Mason. Turning that Food Star into a descent grocery would do a lot to improve things.
Of course now there have been increased rumblings to put Metro under the Pike. It would take decades, but would be the best solution for transportation.

Haha the border was South Courthouse in 2002, I was the only vanilla in the caramel and chocolate on the 16 buses -- maybe it'd gotten to Glebe by the time you moved in.

I lived in Dundree Knolls, the TH complex between Oakland and Quincy. I honestly don't remember what was on the SW corner of Glebe and the Pike, is that where the Chipotle, Menchie's, etc., are going in? We've got a Menchie's in Frederick too now

See, I do have fond memories of South Arlington, it's not all bad, you just gotta be careful + lucky and it seems the lucky percentage has gotten better since I was there.

Crappy neighbor's guy is illustrating beautifully just how much change has already happened.
We moved in to Douglas Park in '09- so not that recently , and I have no idea about what this guy is talking about. The area he is describing doesn't exist anymore. Although, it's very interesting hearing about what has changed.
Move on in OP. There is still time before 650k won't allow you to buy in.... But it's running out.

Dundree Knolls still exists, it's the 3800 block of South 9th Road. It's on the north side of the Pike between Oakland and Quincy. I drove through the area 2-3 years ago to show my DD where we used to live. They'd put up tan siding to replace the pastels that were there in the 80s and some Googling reveals they did more renovations in 2010.

Not sure why you say "it doesn't exist anymore." Now some of the other stuff I've talked about has gone away, but not the THs on the north side of the Pike between Quincy and Oakland.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:22:43 so, then the affordable housing in arlington is not doing the job you say it can. If that were true, s arlington schools would have the scores equal to north arlington.

But the affordable housing we are talking about (the "committed" affordable housing provided by the county/private partnerships) is not concentrated in South Arlington. An economist in our neighborhood studied this recently and found that the number of affordable housing units in north and south Arlington are almost exactly the same. These units do, for the most part, have one thing in common, but it's not a South Arlington location. If you plot the affordable housing units on a county map, you will see that they are clustered on or near major thoroughfares and bus routes. Columbia Pike is just one example.

So, it's not affordable housing that is making South Arlington poorer. It's the fact that the market rate affordable housing (a very different thing) is clustered in South Arlington. The market - not the county - has dictated that.

The market units seem to be slowly vanishing though, with the exception of the vast Barcroft Apts. I doubt that's going away anytime soon.

Anonymous wrote:22:43 so, then the affordable housing in arlington is not doing the job you say it can. If that were true, s arlington schools would have the scores equal to north arlington.

But the affordable housing we are talking about (the "committed" affordable housing provided by the county/private partnerships) is not concentrated in South Arlington. An economist in our neighborhood studied this recently and found that the number of affordable housing units in north and south Arlington are almost exactly the same. These units do, for the most part, have one thing in common, but it's not a South Arlington location. If you plot the affordable housing units on a county map, you will see that they are clustered on or near major thoroughfares and bus routes. Columbia Pike is just one example.

So, it's not affordable housing that is making South Arlington poorer. It's the fact that the market rate affordable housing (a very different thing) is clustered in South Arlington. The market - not the county - has dictated that.

Anonymous wrote:22:43 so, then the affordable housing in arlington is not doing the job you say it can. If that were true, s arlington schools would have the scores equal to north arlington.

Are you really that obtuse?

Anonymous wrote:We live in S Arl (near the Pike) and love it.

Our income is in the mid 400's and we could afford most of N Arl but chose to live here for the diversity and for our elementary school that gives preference to S Arl families.

That said, the school's all over the county are a mess with all the overcrowding, the focus on testing etc (in my opinion) and so we are headed to private school in the fall. North Arlington schools are not an option either in my opinion as the overcrowding and emphasis on test scores is the same there.

I'm a supporter of affordable housing. The kids who live in well-run, committed affordable housing communities do better in school as the families are in more stable/supported environments. It's the kids who are constantly moving or that are in market rate affordable housing units that struggle more.

We

Dumb

Anonymous wrote:22:43 so, then the affordable housing in arlington is not doing the job you say it can. If that were true, s arlington schools would have the scores equal to north arlington.

There is not enough committed affordable housing. In talking about APAH and AHC communities. Many of the kids who live in those communities have access to programs like the Greenbruer Learning Center. If you look at Greenbrier's materials you will see that their kids jump 2-3 reading levels in a year. They may not be on grade level but they're doing a heck of a lot better than they were in the beginning of the year.

Also, test scores do not show growth and if you've ever seen an SOL you'll see how the language easily trips up ELL students. The SOL scores alone are not what you should go off of.

22:43 so, then the affordable housing in arlington is not doing the job you say it can. If that were true, s arlington schools would have the scores equal to north arlington.

^^schools not school's