Anonymous
04/11/2015 10:44
Subject: Re:Want to raise kids Catholic, have some issues with Church
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
In catholic churches, the risen Christ is also celebrated. Both suffering and rising are taught.
Really? Because He's still hanging there in every Catholic Church/hospital/home I've visited.
I think pp means that even for Catholics the story of Jesus didn't end on the cross. And that is part of faith teaching.
Catholics celebrate the resurrection, all right, but they also focus morbidly on the crucifixion
Okay... and what?
What do you want catholics to do? This is a huge part of the catholic faith and ingrained in its history and tradition.
So what exactly do you want them to do?
No one is asking you to be catholic and focus morbidly on the crucifixion.
It's more what I think the Catholics would be better off NOT doing -- and (among other things) that's continuing with the focus on the gory crucifixion. It's like an artifact from an earlier, less humane age that we're stuck with because of all the art and doctrine and ancient images
Also, why would anyone want to defend and continue this gory, antiquated focus? "Just because we've always done it that way and we're used to it and are not bothered by it" doesn't seem like a very good reason or a very good sign for the future of the church in a more open, humane society.
It's not the focus at our church.
No crucifix on the Altar or on the walls of classrooms? No stations of the cross with depictions of Jesus being bloodied and beaten?
No gory blood.
Anonymous
04/11/2015 10:37
Subject: Re:Want to raise kids Catholic, have some issues with Church
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
In catholic churches, the risen Christ is also celebrated. Both suffering and rising are taught.
Really? Because He's still hanging there in every Catholic Church/hospital/home I've visited.
I think pp means that even for Catholics the story of Jesus didn't end on the cross. And that is part of faith teaching.
Catholics celebrate the resurrection, all right, but they also focus morbidly on the crucifixion
Okay... and what?
What do you want catholics to do? This is a huge part of the catholic faith and ingrained in its history and tradition.
So what exactly do you want them to do?
No one is asking you to be catholic and focus morbidly on the crucifixion.
It's more what I think the Catholics would be better off NOT doing -- and (among other things) that's continuing with the focus on the gory crucifixion. It's like an artifact from an earlier, less humane age that we're stuck with because of all the art and doctrine and ancient images
Also, why would anyone want to defend and continue this gory, antiquated focus? "Just because we've always done it that way and we're used to it and are not bothered by it" doesn't seem like a very good reason or a very good sign for the future of the church in a more open, humane society.
It's not the focus at our church.
No crucifix on the Altar or on the walls of classrooms? No stations of the cross with depictions of Jesus being bloodied and beaten?
Anonymous
04/11/2015 10:00
Subject: Re:Want to raise kids Catholic, have some issues with Church
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
In catholic churches, the risen Christ is also celebrated. Both suffering and rising are taught.
Really? Because He's still hanging there in every Catholic Church/hospital/home I've visited.
I think pp means that even for Catholics the story of Jesus didn't end on the cross. And that is part of faith teaching.
Catholics celebrate the resurrection, all right, but they also focus morbidly on the crucifixion
Okay... and what?
What do you want catholics to do? This is a huge part of the catholic faith and ingrained in its history and tradition.
So what exactly do you want them to do?
No one is asking you to be catholic and focus morbidly on the crucifixion.
It's more what I think the Catholics would be better off NOT doing -- and (among other things) that's continuing with the focus on the gory crucifixion. It's like an artifact from an earlier, less humane age that we're stuck with because of all the art and doctrine and ancient images
Also, why would anyone want to defend and continue this gory, antiquated focus? "Just because we've always done it that way and we're used to it and are not bothered by it" doesn't seem like a very good reason or a very good sign for the future of the church in a more open, humane society.
It's not the focus at our church.
Anonymous
04/11/2015 09:55
Subject: Re:Want to raise kids Catholic, have some issues with Church
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
In catholic churches, the risen Christ is also celebrated. Both suffering and rising are taught.
Really? Because He's still hanging there in every Catholic Church/hospital/home I've visited.
I think pp means that even for Catholics the story of Jesus didn't end on the cross. And that is part of faith teaching.
Catholics celebrate the resurrection, all right, but they also focus morbidly on the crucifixion
Okay... and what?
What do you want catholics to do? This is a huge part of the catholic faith and ingrained in its history and tradition.
So what exactly do you want them to do?
No one is asking you to be catholic and focus morbidly on the crucifixion.
It's more what I think the Catholics would be better off NOT doing -- and (among other things) that's continuing with the focus on the gory crucifixion. It's like an artifact from an earlier, less humane age that we're stuck with because of all the art and doctrine and ancient images
Also, why would anyone want to defend and continue this gory, antiquated focus? "Just because we've always done it that way and we're used to it and are not bothered by it" doesn't seem like a very good reason or a very good sign for the future of the church in a more open, humane society.
Because its a reflexive reaction to criticism of Catholicism. First denial, then defense, followed by name calling and making demands.
The discussion here has gone from (summarizing) "It's not gory" to "goriness is good" to "you're mean for pointing out the goriness" to "shut up and go away" to "what are you going to do about it?"
There's not much non/former Catholics can do besides acknowledge it and try to communicate concerns to Catholics. The change must come from within, for instance - by changing centuries of tradition and by individual Catholics leaving the church for a more humane, modern environment, whether tha by a different denomination or no church at all.
Anonymous
04/11/2015 00:16
Subject: Re:Want to raise kids Catholic, have some issues with Church
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
In catholic churches, the risen Christ is also celebrated. Both suffering and rising are taught.
Really? Because He's still hanging there in every Catholic Church/hospital/home I've visited.
I think pp means that even for Catholics the story of Jesus didn't end on the cross. And that is part of faith teaching.
Catholics celebrate the resurrection, all right, but they also focus morbidly on the crucifixion
Okay... and what?
What do you want catholics to do? This is a huge part of the catholic faith and ingrained in its history and tradition.
So what exactly do you want them to do?
No one is asking you to be catholic and focus morbidly on the crucifixion.
It's more what I think the Catholics would be better off NOT doing -- and (among other things) that's continuing with the focus on the gory crucifixion. It's like an artifact from an earlier, less humane age that we're stuck with because of all the art and doctrine and ancient images
Also, why would anyone want to defend and continue this gory, antiquated focus? "Just because we've always done it that way and we're used to it and are not bothered by it" doesn't seem like a very good reason or a very good sign for the future of the church in a more open, humane society.
Anonymous
04/10/2015 23:55
Subject: Re:Want to raise kids Catholic, have some issues with Church
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
In catholic churches, the risen Christ is also celebrated. Both suffering and rising are taught.
Really? Because He's still hanging there in every Catholic Church/hospital/home I've visited.
I think pp means that even for Catholics the story of Jesus didn't end on the cross. And that is part of faith teaching.
Catholics celebrate the resurrection, all right, but they also focus morbidly on the crucifixion
Okay... and what?
What do you want catholics to do? This is a huge part of the catholic faith and ingrained in its history and tradition.
So what exactly do you want them to do?
No one is asking you to be catholic and focus morbidly on the crucifixion.
It's more what I think the Catholics would be better off NOT doing -- and (among other things) that's continuing with the focus on the gory crucifixion. It's like an artifact from an earlier, less humane age that we're stuck with because of all the art and doctrine and ancient images
Anonymous
04/10/2015 23:52
Subject: Want to raise kids Catholic, have some issues with Church
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Catholic here, and I"m surprised at the discussion of "gory crosses." Most (not all) of the crucifixes I have seen show very little or no blood. Yes, there are nails through his hands and feet, but no blood showing. In all my years as a Catholic child I never really realized or was told the gory details associated with being crucified. I was well into adulthood before it even occurred to me.
Oh, you've missed out on one of the greatest things about Catholic church history. Love the gory stuff. Nobody does gore like the Catholics. The polychrome sculpture is the best. Well, there's also all the reliquaries with body parts, especially St. Catherine's head in Siena, and St. Anthony's tongue in Padova, with tastebuds still intact!
Don't give me any of that whitewashed vanilla Protestant aesthetic.
http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/jonathanjonesblog/2013/nov/18/st-peters-bones-christian-relics
http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/an-800-year-old-tongue-tours-new-york-st-anthony-s-relics-on-the-anniversary-of-their-discovery
And, yet again, I ask what is your point?
Is someone forcing you at gunpoint to be catholic?
Do you have to study catholicism so a nigerian prince will send you a million dollars?
You don't think you are going to change catholicism do you? Or make a catholic go "Oh gee, I never noticed how gory the church is, guess I'll be an athiest now."
pssst... if you don't like the religion, don't be that religion.
Anonymous
04/10/2015 20:16
Subject: Want to raise kids Catholic, have some issues with Church
Anonymous wrote:Catholic here, and I"m surprised at the discussion of "gory crosses." Most (not all) of the crucifixes I have seen show very little or no blood. Yes, there are nails through his hands and feet, but no blood showing. In all my years as a Catholic child I never really realized or was told the gory details associated with being crucified. I was well into adulthood before it even occurred to me.
Oh, you've missed out on one of the greatest things about Catholic church history. Love the gory stuff. Nobody does gore like the Catholics. The polychrome sculpture is the best. Well, there's also all the reliquaries with body parts, especially St. Catherine's head in Siena, and St. Anthony's tongue in Padova, with tastebuds still intact!
Don't give me any of that whitewashed vanilla Protestant aesthetic.
http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/jonathanjonesblog/2013/nov/18/st-peters-bones-christian-relics
http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/an-800-year-old-tongue-tours-new-york-st-anthony-s-relics-on-the-anniversary-of-their-discovery
Anonymous
04/10/2015 20:15
Subject: Re:Want to raise kids Catholic, have some issues with Church
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
In catholic churches, the risen Christ is also celebrated. Both suffering and rising are taught.
Really? Because He's still hanging there in every Catholic Church/hospital/home I've visited.
I think pp means that even for Catholics the story of Jesus didn't end on the cross. And that is part of faith teaching.
Yes, and you missed my sarcasm that implied that it sure feels like they think it did.
Hmm. Then I don't get the point of your post. I was trying to be helpful.
Anonymous
04/10/2015 19:58
Subject: Re:Want to raise kids Catholic, have some issues with Church
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
In catholic churches, the risen Christ is also celebrated. Both suffering and rising are taught.
Really? Because He's still hanging there in every Catholic Church/hospital/home I've visited.
I think pp means that even for Catholics the story of Jesus didn't end on the cross. And that is part of faith teaching.
Yes, and you missed my sarcasm that implied that it sure feels like they think it did.
Anonymous
04/10/2015 19:40
Subject: Re:Want to raise kids Catholic, have some issues with Church
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
In catholic churches, the risen Christ is also celebrated. Both suffering and rising are taught.
Really? Because He's still hanging there in every Catholic Church/hospital/home I've visited.
I think pp means that even for Catholics the story of Jesus didn't end on the cross. And that is part of faith teaching.
Catholics celebrate the resurrection, all right, but they also focus morbidly on the crucifixion
Okay... and what?
What do you want catholics to do? This is a huge part of the catholic faith and ingrained in its history and tradition.
So what exactly do you want them to do?
No one is asking you to be catholic and focus morbidly on the crucifixion.
Anonymous
04/10/2015 17:53
Subject: Re:Want to raise kids Catholic, have some issues with Church
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
In catholic churches, the risen Christ is also celebrated. Both suffering and rising are taught.
Really? Because He's still hanging there in every Catholic Church/hospital/home I've visited.
I think pp means that even for Catholics the story of Jesus didn't end on the cross. And that is part of faith teaching.
Catholics celebrate the resurrection, all right, but they also focus morbidly on the crucifixion
all year round.
Anonymous
04/10/2015 17:53
Subject: Re:Want to raise kids Catholic, have some issues with Church
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
My Presbyterian church has a beautiful wooden cross suspended from the ceiling, but no body.
Because the important thing is that he is risen, not that he was crucified.
This is interesting. I grew up catholic but never attended Catholic school so I could be getting some information wrong. I believe I was taught though that the most important thing was that Jesus died and suffered for our sins so that we could go to heaven. Somewhere along the line I was told that Jesus suffered in hell for all our sins after being crucified so that we could go to heaven. Not sure if this is the actual catholic teaching, but we definitely spent more time discussing his suffering than his rising. There is a whole month called Lent where catholics spend time "suffering" in a small way to remind themselves of Jesus's suffering. Then there is a long time at Easter where they rejoice that the gates to heaven are open, but the actual ascension is just one day of reflection. So catholics basically spend a lot of time remembering his suffering and rejoicing that they can go to heaven, but do not dwell excessively on the fact that Jesus's body rose from the dead to go back to God. They believe it, but I guess growing up it didn't seem like a huge feat since Jesus was god after all and came from God to begin with so was just going back home.
Curious now. What are protestant's taught?
Still waiting for a protestant to tell me why a cross verses a crucifix is so much better and how it helped them learn more about Christ.
Where did a protestant say a cross without Jesus hanging from it helped them learn more about Christ?
Above the P said that it is more important that Jesus had risen, not that had died on the cross. A C said they were taught the suffering was more important, then asked what are P's taught, but nobody answered.
I'm the one that posted about the empty cross. There's talk about Jesus' suffering, but it's not the focus of sermons. We focus on the good news that Jesus brought to the world. It's a very positive, upbeat message.
My formerly Catholic husband is loving it, as is the rest of my family.
Anonymous
04/10/2015 17:53
Subject: Re:Want to raise kids Catholic, have some issues with Church
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
In catholic churches, the risen Christ is also celebrated. Both suffering and rising are taught.
Really? Because He's still hanging there in every Catholic Church/hospital/home I've visited.
I think pp means that even for Catholics the story of Jesus didn't end on the cross. And that is part of faith teaching.
Catholics celebrate the resurrection, all right, but they also focus morbidly on the crucifixion
Anonymous
04/10/2015 16:49
Subject: Re:Want to raise kids Catholic, have some issues with Church
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
In catholic churches, the risen Christ is also celebrated. Both suffering and rising are taught.
Really? Because He's still hanging there in every Catholic Church/hospital/home I've visited.
I think pp means that even for Catholics the story of Jesus didn't end on the cross. And that is part of faith teaching.