I think people are too quick to use National Merit as a shorthand for smart kids. At our school, the NMSFs are not uniformly the smartest kids in the school and as a result don't all go to Ivies. Increasingly it is more about your high school record than the result of one test.

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, Sidwell does a good job of placing legacies and athletes. The top students who do not fit into either of those categories find it challenging to get into Ivies.

1. Top students in GENERAL find it challenging to get into Ivies.
2. Let's say Sidwell has 12 - 15% of the class who are National Merit Semifinalists; so, 13 - 18 kids depending on the year. Harvard or Yale isn't taking all 15 kids. And their transcripts won't all be identical -- there will be more of a range than people might think. And the recommendations from teachers won't all be the same. And some of those 15 will have a hook -- athlete, legacy, or underrepresented minority.
This is the college world today. Drew Gilpin Faust could take the job of college counselor in her retirement and Harvard still won't take 15 kids from Sidwell. They are trying to build a national and international class and geography in this area is a limiting factor

Anonymous wrote:Jefferson scholars at UVA also have a great program with lots of extras.

For the record, the Jefferson Scholars Program is more highly selective than even Stanford and Harvard. Schools have to be selected to even nominate a student, they're limited to one nominee per year, then the nominees compete against other area nominees for one bid that entitles them to go to the selection weekend where are the area nominees compete against each other.

Anonymous wrote:In my experience, Sidwell does a good job of placing legacies and athletes. The top students who do not fit into either of those categories find it challenging to get into Ivies.

+1

Sometimes the well connected big donors have children who are too spoiled, lazy , entitled, and pushy to be appreciated by the teachers and their recommendations aren't great. This could open up a spot for your child. The counselor can't really know in advance what the teachers are going to write.
If your child feels strongly about a school then do apply but apply for some great safeties. Also, I think Princeton is a high reach for everyone- not just your child. The counselors don't want to tell anyone that getting into Princeton is likely!!
Ask the child who his competition is. He will know who has better grades etc. That will put it into perspective.
Don't let college acceptance affect his self image. Some oft the worlds most successful people went to secondary Texas state schools- LBJ !! Keep stressing how proud you are because thats really what matters to him. And some of his classmates will be hardworking legacies who don't get in- they will really feel bad. I didn't let my daughter apply to my school because I didn't want her to get into that situation. He will have a wonderful life- keep stressing that.

In my experience, Sidwell does a good job of placing legacies and athletes. The top students who do not fit into either of those categories find it challenging to get into Ivies.

The reality is that it is VERY hard to get a 3.9 GPA at Sidwell. I doubt more than one or two in any class have averages that high. Sure, legacies, first generation college, and athletes are strongly favored, but other interesting and often well-balanced students also have gained acceptance to those schools. And, frankly, I think Sidwell does not do as well as it should in college admissions. It is one of the weaknesses I hope the new head of school will address.

Some of the college with special programs display student bios on their websites so that you can see the profile of student who gets in. Mine was interested in one program and was very excited after reading the brochure, but after reading the bios of the 20 kids per year who got in- it was clear he didn't have what they were looking for. Read as much as you can on the internet sources. Even college conf, which people poo poo, has some usable information.

Even though I hate my child's school for many many reasons I am grateful to the counselor for getting behind my child after her initial blowing us off, so I don't want to name the school.
In addition to the sports, stem, minority, legacy tips that the colleges have in place, I think this school has a profile of student that they favor and promote, and weirdly!! it didn't include my child even though she was so near the top grade wise and also in every other way. The counselor I believe was being straight forward when she said no ivies, not sporty enough. I think that was the school's system, to promote the athletes. But over a period of months she saw my child's qualities and accomplishments and got behind her in many ways.
If Sidwell is sending students with less than 3.9 to ivies, thats good. Are they recruited athletes, legacies, female stem applicants, minorities(including gay) ? Look over who has gotten into the ivies from Sidwell before you conclude that you don't need a very high grade point average, just so your aims are realistic. At my child's school it was usually good students with one of the other tips. In fact my child was the only one that year to get in without a tip except for the asian students, who are I believe actually discriminated against. I believe there is a lawsuit about discrimination against asians in the ivy admissions. So my child got into multiple high ivies without tips, based on her hard work. The counselor could see my child really deserved a chance. But if you are concerned about discrimination look at what the school has done for the past few years. Your child could be discriminated against for other reasons entirely- just the bias of the school's current people in charge.
I have also read articles complaining that the ivies usually place people in summer unpaid internships in large expensive cities that scholarship students can't afford to take. U of NC has a merit scholarship program that guarantees a paid summer job. The counselor might have your child in mind for a scholarship like this- maybe your child is the only one in the school who could get it- and thats why the counselor is promoting it to you heavily. They want the highest number possible children in prestigious programs and schools. If there is a spot that only your child can get- they want your child to apply. If its binding, I understand your concern. Ask the counselor for names of other students who are at that college and call their parents, and have your child call the students. It might be a good thing.

Anonymous wrote:My child was at a big 3 and was told "no ivy" was a possibility, despite 3 800s and a grade point average of over 3.9. She was a HYP legacy as well!! They said because she wasn't an athlete, even though she had been captain of a team she formed herself and did outside of school. I was pretty outraged but just kept on with it. The counselor objected when she signed up for 5 Ap tests junior year. When she got all 5s, the counselor was more interested. She had many other activities and an extra language as well. I came up with some special programs that some of the ivies had that she would be great in and the counselor became more interested. Sometimes I think its a matter of helping the counselor market your child. In your case, being Latino will help hugely and I think you should be very nice to the counselor and keep asking, nicely, for what you want. Why does your child want to go to those specific schools? Give the counselor a few reasons. Look at the professors- have your child read some of their books. And when your child gets in, they will remember your persistence always!! And do not worry about your child fitting in- those universities are huge and there is no in crowd- just many many groups and your child will belong to several I am sure. And yes, my child did get where she wanted to go. The counselor was a big supporter in the end. My child was quiet as well. One thing the counselor said was " Columbia told me not to send any quiet students there" !! Insane!!

This is shocking and I would love to know where this happened. My child is at a top 3 -- Sidwell -- and a 3.9 GPA (if they had GPAs) would definitely put a student at the very top of a class. Sidwell routinely sends students with much lower GPAs to Ivy League schools. There have been bad counselors, however, so I could theoretically imagine this happening. As others have pointed out, however, it is always a stretch to apply to Ivys and the only sure way to get in seems to be through the athletic departments. Also, there are non-Ivy schools that are as good, or better, than Ivys. Some of the Ivys are VERY focused on graduate education and do not offer the best undergraduate experience. People should look around -- lots of wonderful colleges.

Also Maryland has a new high math science school which is incredible. Not well known except to people who hire in these areas. So very worthwhile

Jefferson scholars at UVA also have a great program with lots of extras.

Some state school scholarships are more prestigious tha ivied in addition to being a free ride. Morehouse at u North Carolina for example.

The admission statistics for HYP are well under 10%, and closer to five percent. They are a reach for everyone today. You counselor would be doing a disservice if s/he didn't advise your child to add other kinds of schools to the list.

Anonymous wrote:Ignore and your DC should apply where they want.

If DC writes a killer essay if will probably override the importance of the counselor's specific recommendation letter. It's still a long shot for admittance. I would keep your/DC's strategy to yourself. Try to fly under the radar as much as you can while still giving plenty of attention to safety and match choices/applications.

You're right. The counselor is concerned with the HS as a whole. Counselors are risk adverse. Much nicer if everyone is placed and is happy with their placement.

You don't have to play along, just do it very quietly.

OP, the above is good sound advice. Also, try contacting the Latino Student Fund. Your child should be viewed as an under represented minority and you should check the box on Hispanic, non white.Curious, what is the state school with the scholarship ?

Good luck, and though it is an insult, rise above it and just be glad that you dont have their job