Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ah, the mommy wars...

Okay, here's what I think:

Who cares.

Here's what I think:

Paid maternity leave.
Paid paternity leave.
Paid sick leave.
Affordable, high-quality childcare.

no

No? You're in favor of mothers having to go back to work when the baby is six weeks old (or earlier), fathers not taking off any time at all, people going to work when they're sick because otherwise they don't get paid, and expensive, low-quality childcare? Why?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most of the WOHMs are being deliberately obtuse. My nanny takes care of my children for 40 plus hours a week, I think we can all agree that is a fulltime job (as is working in a daycare, if that is how you get your childcare while you work) . However, when a SAHM does that, it's completely overlooked and everyone wants to argue that they do the same exact thing but also work. It's so plainly false it is ridiculous.

Well-put. Thanks! ~WOHM here

Do you really think there is no difference between taking care of kids NOT in your own house and taking care of your kids in your own house? Or being paid to do nothing but take care of kids, versus being allowed to take care of kids but do whatever else you need to do (as long as kids aren't neglected)?

What's the longest amount of time you've been home as the primary caregiver of your kids (i.e. no daycare or nanny) and how many do you have?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most of the WOHMs are being deliberately obtuse. My nanny takes care of my children for 40 plus hours a week, I think we can all agree that is a fulltime job (as is working in a daycare, if that is how you get your childcare while you work) . However, when a SAHM does that, it's completely overlooked and everyone wants to argue that they do the same exact thing but also work. It's so plainly false it is ridiculous.

Well-put. Thanks! ~WOHM here

Do you really think there is no difference between taking care of kids NOT in your own house and taking care of your kids in your own house? Or being paid to do nothing but take care of kids, versus being allowed to take care of kids but do whatever else you need to do (as long as kids aren't neglected)?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ah, the mommy wars...

Okay, here's what I think:

Who cares.

Here's what I think:

Paid maternity leave.
Paid paternity leave.
Paid sick leave.
Affordable, high-quality childcare.

no

Anonymous wrote:I think most of the WOHMs are being deliberately obtuse. My nanny takes care of my children for 40 plus hours a week, I think we can all agree that is a fulltime job (as is working in a daycare, if that is how you get your childcare while you work) . However, when a SAHM does that, it's completely overlooked and everyone wants to argue that they do the same exact thing but also work. It's so plainly false it is ridiculous.

Well-put. Thanks! ~WOHM here

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most of the WOHMs are being deliberately obtuse. My nanny takes care of my children for 40 plus hours a week, I think we can all agree that is a fulltime job (as is working in a daycare, if that is how you get your childcare while you work) . However, when a SAHM does that, it's completely overlooked and everyone wants to argue that they do the same exact thing but also work. It's so plainly false it is ridiculous.

You don't see the distinction between getting paid money to leave your house and go watch other people's children and staying at home to care for your own child? One is a job, one is a choice. They are different. That's why we have the distinctions. Some parents stay at home, some go to work, some can work from home. Every single one of those brings its own pros and cons, but they are all different from one another. Choosing to stay at home to care for your children is a choice and involves things that have to be done during the day but it isn't a job. Going to work involves involves things that may look similar to caring for your own child, but at the end of the day, it's a job.

What exactly is your point? Mine was that taking care of kids all day is hard work--whether or not you are paid for it. Are you arguing otherwise?

I work out of the home. I could care less about titles.

I work because I enjoy work. I could not stay at home all day.

Life would be easier if I was at home because I feel stretched too thin working, but then I would be miserable because I'd be at home all day. I spend 6 hours a day with my DD outside of my day job and that is more than enough time for me. But, I can't get anything else done in that time so I am always exhausted staying up late doing housework, have no time for myself.

I think working no kids or staying at home leads to the happiest result for some people. I find doing both to be miserable.

Anonymous wrote:I think most of the WOHMs are being deliberately obtuse. My nanny takes care of my children for 40 plus hours a week, I think we can all agree that is a fulltime job (as is working in a daycare, if that is how you get your childcare while you work) . However, when a SAHM does that, it's completely overlooked and everyone wants to argue that they do the same exact thing but also work. It's so plainly false it is ridiculous.

You don't see the distinction between getting paid money to leave your house and go watch other people's children and staying at home to care for your own child? One is a job, one is a choice. They are different. That's why we have the distinctions. Some parents stay at home, some go to work, some can work from home. Every single one of those brings its own pros and cons, but they are all different from one another. Choosing to stay at home to care for your children is a choice and involves things that have to be done during the day but it isn't a job. Going to work involves involves things that may look similar to caring for your own child, but at the end of the day, it's a job.

15:21 Have you ever been a SAHM? I WOH, but I did SAH for a while. It's not that you don't have to clean the kitchen or vacuum or keep the house clean and organized, it's the number of times that it has to be done when you're at home with kids all day.

I WOH now. Weekends we eat out at least 2 meals between Sat and Sun, we're out and about, family time, my DH is there to help me. It's easy compared to being at home during the week, preparing 15 meals and 10 snacks, doing dishes 3 times a day, not to mention the pots. Every try keeping 2 kids (under 5) occupied for 60 hours a week without television? It's hard! You put away toys ten times a day with help from the LOs of course, but they can't do everything by themselves. The mental break alone from working outside the house is a huge luxury for me. I don't envy SAHM's nor do I pity them. I just get where they're coming from.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What pray tell is that one responsibility? Is it cleaning and housework? Laundry? Cooking and packing lunches? Is it changing diapers? Driving Kids every where and going to all conferences/appointments? Is it taking care of all the finances? Is it taking care of a elderly sick parent? Is it homework help? Not all families have a dad who can help with these tasks, most high earners have super long hours and/or lots of overnight travel.

I have far more time for mental breaks and far more adult companionship when working outside the home.

I never understand these lists. I WOHM and do all of these things. Granted, I don't do them during the hours I am working, but they all still need to get done, meaning either my schedule has to shift around or I have to do them at night and on the weekend.

I don't get this either. I do laundry, make lunches, cook, change diapers, go to kid stuff, take care of finances - AND I work outside the home. So I do your job and another one.

Nope, you outsource childcare and a SAH does not-- that takes up the bulk of her day and a few hours of yours.

Right, and work takes up the time that her kids take up. Why is this so complicated? It's the insistence that SAHMs are so busy because they do all this household stuff - we all do it.

Not sure anyone actually said that, it's just the way you are parsing it-- it's mainly taking care of the kids all day without break and doing the household stuff with the kids around. Much easier for me personally to run errands (i.e. out to cvs on lunch break or pick up drycleaning on way home) or schedule a vacation when I'm at work, nothing is worse than taking kids on an errand trip

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
What pray tell is that one responsibility? Is it cleaning and housework? Laundry? Cooking and packing lunches? Is it changing diapers? Driving Kids every where and going to all conferences/appointments? Is it taking care of all the finances? Is it taking care of a elderly sick parent? Is it homework help? Not all families have a dad who can help with these tasks, most high earners have super long hours and/or lots of overnight travel.

I have far more time for mental breaks and far more adult companionship when working outside the home.

I never understand these lists. I WOHM and do all of these things. Granted, I don't do them during the hours I am working, but they all still need to get done, meaning either my schedule has to shift around or I have to do them at night and on the weekend.

I don't get this either. I do laundry, make lunches, cook, change diapers, go to kid stuff, take care of finances - AND I work outside the home. So I do your job and another one.

Nope, you outsource childcare and a SAH does not-- that takes up the bulk of her day and a few hours of yours.

Right, and work takes up the time that her kids take up. Why is this so complicated? It's the insistence that SAHMs are so busy because they do all this household stuff - we all do it.

Anonymous wrote:Any WOHMs willing to guess how much time they spend at work dealing with home issues? (Like scheduling contractors, ordering whatever from Amazon, managing finances, searching online for clothes for the whole family for an upcoming out of town wedding, looking at real estate, beach house booking, flights for Christmas break, etc etc).

Sure, all that stuff--maybe 1 hour per week (because in any given week you do one of things or similar activity like scheduling dr appointments or registering for teacher work day camps or ordering a cake).

I think most of the WOHMs are being deliberately obtuse. My nanny takes care of my children for 40 plus hours a week, I think we can all agree that is a fulltime job (as is working in a daycare, if that is how you get your childcare while you work) . However, when a SAHM does that, it's completely overlooked and everyone wants to argue that they do the same exact thing but also work. It's so plainly false it is ridiculous.

Totally agree with 14.53 pp. Nothing happens by magic. I'm a SAHM mom at the moment because we are on a posting and there's a number of issues precluding my being able to work. Most of the other SAHMs I know expand the sort of things I'd usually do in between work hours to be "big deal" items that are worth planning a day around. I've never had more spare time than I have now and I have three small children and no childcare help. It's a matter of filling in the day rather than having a day that is full. I think there's a lot of justification on both sides but I absolutely reject the fact that SAHMs have as much to do as WOHMs who are largely still doing all the domestic infrastructure stuff and holding down a job. I don't negate that both are busy but I would observe that one person's busy day is another person's well planned lunch hour. Perhaps there may be a benefit for kids in staying home with Mom but I'd have to say I notice little difference at all between the SAHM kids I see most at the moment and the day-care/nanny kids of my friends (except that the day care kids seem to be better socialized on the whole).

When I was a SAHM I had time to do certain things that as a Working mum without a nanny/housekeeper I did not.

* go to gym, walk, otherwise work out
* do a very, very good job with domestic stuff--you're welcome to my home, it's almost always clean, and the kids are doing cool projects, come take a look!
* maintain neighbor and community relations--by "being there" I could help others out, I got to know people better, and so on
* my husband and I had more time to be better parents, really

I did work for a while without a nanny, and I thought we could do better. My husband is exceptionally wonderful in the house with certain things (makes dinner every night, goes grocery shopping, etc.) but not with others (he's not even a smidge bothered by 'untidy' which includes closets/laundry, toys, deep cleaning, yard maintenance). I was very tired trying to keep up with everything that I wanted to keep up with. So, nanny/housekeeper is what we opted for. THAT was a great thing.

As a working mom in a not-terribly stressful, mostly family friendly job, with someone in the house I could really count on and who did a great job, I had it all. Almost.

I'd still rather be a SAHM. I love my family, and despite the tantrums and other annoyances, I find it a great privilege to spend time with them. I felt like it was "family retirement." We got up and went when I felt like getting up to go (and the kids were up to it). The *most* challenging thing for me was child defiance and orneriness. I have to consciously chill myself way the F down so I'm not Mommy Dearest Mommy in the face of typical kid-crap. That was my Achilles heel. But I could handle it!