Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree, PP....

A student trying to get in to an advanced grade without placement in Mandarin at Yu Ying - who didn't yet have the opportunity to learn it STILL won't have the opportunity to learn it at the same level even if he does get in, because he will have missed out on the foundational work that was taught in the previous years. That's why they SHOULD be allowed to do testing and placement. The argument against it is irrational.

The kid who does not have mandarin in the fourth grade will have the opportunity to apply for an open spot in the 6th grade. that child will then have the same chances as a child who has knowledge in mandarin, but not yet a yy student. to allow non-lottery admission in grades 3-5 based on test-in, places high SES children at an advantage.

Oh, and we certainly cannot have that. Everyone has to be treated exactly the same: B/c a child who does not know Mandarin cannot do 3, 4, 5th grade work in Mandarin. Another child who could do the work in Mandarin will not be given the opportunity either... A recipe for mediocrity and a waste of resources and potential - the school's and the child's.

Every other charter school in the city that accepts new kids in the upper grades is required to accept and work with students who don't know their language of instruction, or are many years behind. Why is it less reasonable for Yu Ying to accept kids who don't speak Mandarin, than it is for other charter schools to accept kids without a word of English, or even kids with disabilities who may not speak at all.

Who in their right mind would throw a third-, fourth- or fifth-grader into a Mandarin immersion school with no prior Chinese? This would be a recipe not just for mediocrity, but for disaster, unless kids had a separate track, as they will at DCI. There is no parallel with English instruction.

I get that people are frustrated with the inability for test-ins at higher grades. This has discussed at length on DCUM, especially with regards to native Chinese speakers, both Mandarin and Cantonese. According to these threads YY has unsuccessfully petitioned twice to be able to accommodate students like the OP's child.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree, PP....

A student trying to get in to an advanced grade without placement in Mandarin at Yu Ying - who didn't yet have the opportunity to learn it STILL won't have the opportunity to learn it at the same level even if he does get in, because he will have missed out on the foundational work that was taught in the previous years. That's why they SHOULD be allowed to do testing and placement. The argument against it is irrational.

The kid who does not have mandarin in the fourth grade will have the opportunity to apply for an open spot in the 6th grade. that child will then have the same chances as a child who has knowledge in mandarin, but not yet a yy student. to allow non-lottery admission in grades 3-5 based on test-in, places high SES children at an advantage.

Oh, and we certainly cannot have that. Everyone has to be treated exactly the same: B/c a child who does not know Mandarin cannot do 3, 4, 5th grade work in Mandarin. Another child who could do the work in Mandarin will not be given the opportunity either... A recipe for mediocrity and a waste of resources and potential - the school's and the child's.

Every other charter school in the city that accepts new kids in the upper grades is required to accept and work with students who don't know their language of instruction, or are many years behind. Why is it less reasonable for Yu Ying to accept kids who don't speak Mandarin, than it is for other charter schools to accept kids without a word of English, or even kids with disabilities who may not speak at all.

You make a good point PP, but it's falling on deaf ears. Some people just can't deal with rules that treat everyone equally. They're used to being able to get around it if it's important. PP's venom about everyone being treated the same is clear in that post.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree, PP....

A student trying to get in to an advanced grade without placement in Mandarin at Yu Ying - who didn't yet have the opportunity to learn it STILL won't have the opportunity to learn it at the same level even if he does get in, because he will have missed out on the foundational work that was taught in the previous years. That's why they SHOULD be allowed to do testing and placement. The argument against it is irrational.

The kid who does not have mandarin in the fourth grade will have the opportunity to apply for an open spot in the 6th grade. that child will then have the same chances as a child who has knowledge in mandarin, but not yet a yy student. to allow non-lottery admission in grades 3-5 based on test-in, places high SES children at an advantage.

Oh, and we certainly cannot have that. Everyone has to be treated exactly the same: B/c a child who does not know Mandarin cannot do 3, 4, 5th grade work in Mandarin. Another child who could do the work in Mandarin will not be given the opportunity either... A recipe for mediocrity and a waste of resources and potential - the school's and the child's.

Every other charter school in the city that accepts new kids in the upper grades is required to accept and work with students who don't know their language of instruction, or are many years behind. Why is it less reasonable for Yu Ying to accept kids who don't speak Mandarin, than it is for other charter schools to accept kids without a word of English, or even kids with disabilities who may not speak at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree, PP....

A student trying to get in to an advanced grade without placement in Mandarin at Yu Ying - who didn't yet have the opportunity to learn it STILL won't have the opportunity to learn it at the same level even if he does get in, because he will have missed out on the foundational work that was taught in the previous years. That's why they SHOULD be allowed to do testing and placement. The argument against it is irrational.

The kid who does not have mandarin in the fourth grade will have the opportunity to apply for an open spot in the 6th grade. that child will then have the same chances as a child who has knowledge in mandarin, but not yet a yy student. to allow non-lottery admission in grades 3-5 based on test-in, places high SES children at an advantage.

Oh, and we certainly cannot have that. Everyone has to be treated exactly the same: B/c a child who does not know Mandarin cannot do 3, 4, 5th grade work in Mandarin. Another child who could do the work in Mandarin will not be given the opportunity either... A recipe for mediocrity and a waste of resources and potential - the school's and the child's.

If the current model is such a "recipe for mediocrity", why is everyone and their cousin scrambling for a spot at Yu Ying? As another PP said, no one has a right to this, and sometimes there are bigger reasons than just what happens at grades 3, 4 and 5 to consider. If this is a recipe for mediocrity, why is the waitlist a mile long for this school today? And not just a waitlist of parents who are applying everywhere and anywhere. The waitlist includes parents who this is far and away their first choice, and parents who aren't applying to any other DC public school except Yu Ying (and the same is probably true for a couple of other charters). So, recipe for mediocrity? Then why the rampant competition for a spot?

I'm saying that the way the DCPCSB lack of testing in the higher grades is a model for mediocrity not YY which works within the rules and is a great school despite this ridiculous rule which no other Chinese immersion school has to follow.

The points made by a PP about how DCI addresses this are good. It doesn't create a pathway for grade 3, 4 and 5 admissions, as you so strongly believe in, but it does address attrition and let's be real, we are talking about a tiny number of slots in each of these schools. Those slots will get filled, especially under this model, and that's a great thing. Can you think of a model of a school - really, any school ever in existence - where every single top, reasonable priority of every major player was effectively addressed? Founders of charter schools and educational success-driven policy makers have a lot of critical outcomes to balance, and although there is always always room for improvement, this model has covered its bases pretty amazingly. The few spots that will be unfilled for 3, 4 and 5th grades at each feeder to DCI seems a small price to pay for the larger model that is addressing so many different priorities. And no way does that model represent "a recipe for mediocrity". Quite the contrary, they've done rockstar jobs of trying to account for so many different kinds of students' success, it's actually mindboggling. And the proficient student who is lucky enough to lottery in will get the chance to maximize their experience too. Now, let's just hope it works! But yeah, balancing priorities is hard, and as a PP said unless you are fully discounting the value of lower SES kids still having a shot (which, if admissions by language proficiency is allowed at grades 3, 4 and 5, let's be real, there will be NO slots going to lottery at 6th or 9th for DCI and therefore no shot for non-proficient would-be students), then a small number of students not having the chance to bypass what everyone else has to go through is a small price to pay if these larger goals are actually addressed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree, PP....

A student trying to get in to an advanced grade without placement in Mandarin at Yu Ying - who didn't yet have the opportunity to learn it STILL won't have the opportunity to learn it at the same level even if he does get in, because he will have missed out on the foundational work that was taught in the previous years. That's why they SHOULD be allowed to do testing and placement. The argument against it is irrational.

The kid who does not have mandarin in the fourth grade will have the opportunity to apply for an open spot in the 6th grade. that child will then have the same chances as a child who has knowledge in mandarin, but not yet a yy student. to allow non-lottery admission in grades 3-5 based on test-in, places high SES children at an advantage.

Oh, and we certainly cannot have that. Everyone has to be treated exactly the same: B/c a child who does not know Mandarin cannot do 3, 4, 5th grade work in Mandarin. Another child who could do the work in Mandarin will not be given the opportunity either... A recipe for mediocrity and a waste of resources and potential - the school's and the child's.

If the current model is such a "recipe for mediocrity", why is everyone and their cousin scrambling for a spot at Yu Ying? As another PP said, no one has a right to this, and sometimes there are bigger reasons than just what happens at grades 3, 4 and 5 to consider. If this is a recipe for mediocrity, why is the waitlist a mile long for this school today? And not just a waitlist of parents who are applying everywhere and anywhere. The waitlist includes parents who this is far and away their first choice, and parents who aren't applying to any other DC public school except Yu Ying (and the same is probably true for a couple of other charters). So, recipe for mediocrity? Then why the rampant competition for a spot?

I'm saying that the way the DCPCSB lack of testing in the higher grades is a model for mediocrity not YY which works within the rules and is a great school despite this ridiculous rule which no other Chinese immersion school has to follow.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi Op, I only read a few pages of this thread (did not have time to read it entirely) and had to write to apologize for all of the very rude people who responded!

My child is in an immersion program and you can bet that if I had to relocate, I would try my hardest to get him into another immersion school! I personally do not understand why you cannot test an enter into a higher grade (provided you got in via lottery) - this seems very unfair. I imagine that if a YY parent had to move to another state they would also try to do the same.

I just want to say that you are certainly not asking anything unreasonable and I wish you luck in your search! Please come back to update us!

As a Yu Ying parent getting ready to move to another state, we are doing everything in our power to get into another immersion charter. I've yet to find one that doesn't allow test in. Clearly, the entire country must be against poor children. Honestly, the argument that rich kids with tutors will take over these schools if they can test in is preposterous. We are a bilingual household and I can't tell you how long it takes children to proficiently speak in both languages (not just understand). If one of those languages is English, it can take even longer. Not allowing testing at higher grades just discourages native speakers. I'm starting to wonder if most on this thread are okay with discriminating against Chinese, not just African Americans.

Go talk to Congress. This mandate came down from Congress when DC was still operated by a Congressional Control Board. And why do you think it is discrimination against the Chinese. YY is not the only immersion school in the city. There are French, Hebrew and Spanish schools as well. Arabic immersion is to follow.

Detour: Is Arabic immersion a sure thing? Is it the same school that was denied last year, or a new school? You just made my day if this is a sure thing! I don't even know if this school is approved, and I'm ready to apply and talk about its inclusion in DCI!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi Op, I only read a few pages of this thread (did not have time to read it entirely) and had to write to apologize for all of the very rude people who responded!

My child is in an immersion program and you can bet that if I had to relocate, I would try my hardest to get him into another immersion school! I personally do not understand why you cannot test an enter into a higher grade (provided you got in via lottery) - this seems very unfair. I imagine that if a YY parent had to move to another state they would also try to do the same.

I just want to say that you are certainly not asking anything unreasonable and I wish you luck in your search! Please come back to update us!

As a Yu Ying parent getting ready to move to another state, we are doing everything in our power to get into another immersion charter. I've yet to find one that doesn't allow test in. Clearly, the entire country must be against poor children. Honestly, the argument that rich kids with tutors will take over these schools if they can test in is preposterous. We are a bilingual household and I can't tell you how long it takes children to proficiently speak in both languages (not just understand). If one of those languages is English, it can take even longer. Not allowing testing at higher grades just discourages native speakers. I'm starting to wonder if most on this thread are okay with discriminating against Chinese, not just African Americans.

Go talk to Congress. This mandate came down from Congress when DC was still operated by a Congressional Control Board. And why do you think it is discrimination against the Chinese. YY is not the only immersion school in the city. There are French, Hebrew and Spanish schools as well. Arabic immersion is to follow.

The rule in DC is that you can discriminate against anyone but low-income AAs.

And people wonder why they get called entitled. Do you even know the definition of "discriminate"? Look it up in the dictionary and then explain how any policy of the PCSB is discriminatory.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree, PP....

A student trying to get in to an advanced grade without placement in Mandarin at Yu Ying - who didn't yet have the opportunity to learn it STILL won't have the opportunity to learn it at the same level even if he does get in, because he will have missed out on the foundational work that was taught in the previous years. That's why they SHOULD be allowed to do testing and placement. The argument against it is irrational.

The kid who does not have mandarin in the fourth grade will have the opportunity to apply for an open spot in the 6th grade. that child will then have the same chances as a child who has knowledge in mandarin, but not yet a yy student. to allow non-lottery admission in grades 3-5 based on test-in, places high SES children at an advantage.

Oh, and we certainly cannot have that. Everyone has to be treated exactly the same: B/c a child who does not know Mandarin cannot do 3, 4, 5th grade work in Mandarin. Another child who could do the work in Mandarin will not be given the opportunity either... A recipe for mediocrity and a waste of resources and potential - the school's and the child's.

If the current model is such a "recipe for mediocrity", why is everyone and their cousin scrambling for a spot at Yu Ying? As another PP said, no one has a right to this, and sometimes there are bigger reasons than just what happens at grades 3, 4 and 5 to consider. If this is a recipe for mediocrity, why is the waitlist a mile long for this school today? And not just a waitlist of parents who are applying everywhere and anywhere. The waitlist includes parents who this is far and away their first choice, and parents who aren't applying to any other DC public school except Yu Ying (and the same is probably true for a couple of other charters). So, recipe for mediocrity? Then why the rampant competition for a spot?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi Op, I only read a few pages of this thread (did not have time to read it entirely) and had to write to apologize for all of the very rude people who responded!

My child is in an immersion program and you can bet that if I had to relocate, I would try my hardest to get him into another immersion school! I personally do not understand why you cannot test an enter into a higher grade (provided you got in via lottery) - this seems very unfair. I imagine that if a YY parent had to move to another state they would also try to do the same.

I just want to say that you are certainly not asking anything unreasonable and I wish you luck in your search! Please come back to update us!

As a Yu Ying parent getting ready to move to another state, we are doing everything in our power to get into another immersion charter. I've yet to find one that doesn't allow test in. Clearly, the entire country must be against poor children. Honestly, the argument that rich kids with tutors will take over these schools if they can test in is preposterous. We are a bilingual household and I can't tell you how long it takes children to proficiently speak in both languages (not just understand). If one of those languages is English, it can take even longer. Not allowing testing at higher grades just discourages native speakers. I'm starting to wonder if most on this thread are okay with discriminating against Chinese, not just African Americans.

Go talk to Congress. This mandate came down from Congress when DC was still operated by a Congressional Control Board. And why do you think it is discrimination against the Chinese. YY is not the only immersion school in the city. There are French, Hebrew and Spanish schools as well. Arabic immersion is to follow.

The rule in DC is that you can discriminate against anyone but low-income AAs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree, PP....

A student trying to get in to an advanced grade without placement in Mandarin at Yu Ying - who didn't yet have the opportunity to learn it STILL won't have the opportunity to learn it at the same level even if he does get in, because he will have missed out on the foundational work that was taught in the previous years. That's why they SHOULD be allowed to do testing and placement. The argument against it is irrational.

The kid who does not have mandarin in the fourth grade will have the opportunity to apply for an open spot in the 6th grade. that child will then have the same chances as a child who has knowledge in mandarin, but not yet a yy student. to allow non-lottery admission in grades 3-5 based on test-in, places high SES children at an advantage.

Oh, and we certainly cannot have that. Everyone has to be treated exactly the same: B/c a child who does not know Mandarin cannot do 3, 4, 5th grade work in Mandarin. Another child who could do the work in Mandarin will not be given the opportunity either... A recipe for mediocrity and a waste of resources and potential - the school's and the child's.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi Op, I only read a few pages of this thread (did not have time to read it entirely) and had to write to apologize for all of the very rude people who responded!

My child is in an immersion program and you can bet that if I had to relocate, I would try my hardest to get him into another immersion school! I personally do not understand why you cannot test an enter into a higher grade (provided you got in via lottery) - this seems very unfair. I imagine that if a YY parent had to move to another state they would also try to do the same.

I just want to say that you are certainly not asking anything unreasonable and I wish you luck in your search! Please come back to update us!

As a Yu Ying parent getting ready to move to another state, we are doing everything in our power to get into another immersion charter. I've yet to find one that doesn't allow test in. Clearly, the entire country must be against poor children. Honestly, the argument that rich kids with tutors will take over these schools if they can test in is preposterous. We are a bilingual household and I can't tell you how long it takes children to proficiently speak in both languages (not just understand). If one of those languages is English, it can take even longer. Not allowing testing at higher grades just discourages native speakers. I'm starting to wonder if most on this thread are okay with discriminating against Chinese, not just African Americans.

Go talk to Congress. This mandate came down from Congress when DC was still operated by a Congressional Control Board. And why do you think it is discrimination against the Chinese. YY is not the only immersion school in the city. There are French, Hebrew and Spanish schools as well. Arabic immersion is to follow.

Anonymous wrote:Agree, PP....

A student trying to get in to an advanced grade without placement in Mandarin at Yu Ying - who didn't yet have the opportunity to learn it STILL won't have the opportunity to learn it at the same level even if he does get in, because he will have missed out on the foundational work that was taught in the previous years. That's why they SHOULD be allowed to do testing and placement. The argument against it is irrational.

The kid who does not have mandarin in the fourth grade will have the opportunity to apply for an open spot in the 6th grade. that child will then have the same chances as a child who has knowledge in mandarin, but not yet a yy student. to allow non-lottery admission in grades 3-5 based on test-in, places high SES children at an advantage.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi Op, I only read a few pages of this thread (did not have time to read it entirely) and had to write to apologize for all of the very rude people who responded!

My child is in an immersion program and you can bet that if I had to relocate, I would try my hardest to get him into another immersion school! I personally do not understand why you cannot test an enter into a higher grade (provided you got in via lottery) - this seems very unfair. I imagine that if a YY parent had to move to another state they would also try to do the same.

I just want to say that you are certainly not asking anything unreasonable and I wish you luck in your search! Please come back to update us!

As a Yu Ying parent getting ready to move to another state, we are doing everything in our power to get into another immersion charter. I've yet to find one that doesn't allow test in. Clearly, the entire country must be against poor children. Honestly, the argument that rich kids with tutors will take over these schools if they can test in is preposterous. We are a bilingual household and I can't tell you how long it takes children to proficiently speak in both languages (not just understand). If one of those languages is English, it can take even longer. Not allowing testing at higher grades just discourages native speakers. I'm starting to wonder if most on this thread are okay with discriminating against Chinese, not just African Americans.

Agree, it's ridiculous. And the slippery slope argument that once you allow testing-in, you are opening the flood gates to testing into other schools/magnets and specialized programs other than Yu Ying's grades 3, 4, 5 is really grasping at straws to NOT change a policy that is completely unreasonable. It seems to be the norm that every other Mandarin immersion school in the entire country allows testing-in for upper grades except Yu Ying.

Currently, Yu Ying's main entry grade is preK4 where they take ~ 30 kids in a open lottery. Spaces in grades K, 1, and 2 are only available when a current student leaves through the lottery. Seems a complete waste that attrition in the higher grades have to remain empty and cannot be filled by kids who already have a background in Mandarin and can benefit. DCPCSB would rather YY waste the slots to remain "fair" to students who have no background in Mandarin.

Anonymous wrote:Agree, PP....

A student trying to get in to an advanced grade without placement in Mandarin at Yu Ying - who didn't yet have the opportunity to learn it STILL won't have the opportunity to learn it at the same level even if he does get in, because he will have missed out on the foundational work that was taught in the previous years. That's why they SHOULD be allowed to do testing and placement. The argument against it is irrational.

The amazing g thing about DC International as planned is that it provides for both continued study of target languages, despite attrition, and allows entry into the school at upper grades for any student. Students with no 2nd language start from the beginning and will still most likely graduate proficient in a 2nd language (yet won't be alone in beginner classes, since most feeder students will be beginners in the 3rd language). And new students who are already bilingual can be assessed and join their grade level peers in the advanced classes. This is a brilliant model for addressing attrition, continued intense bilingual language learning, and providing for new students to also succeed. The only people still frustrated at the end of the day are those who wanted a special path in because they're already bilingual. But no one has a right to attend any particular charter school, so that's a frustration that has to be lived with.

Anonymous wrote:Agree, PP....

A student trying to get in to an advanced grade without placement in Mandarin at Yu Ying - who didn't yet have the opportunity to learn it STILL won't have the opportunity to learn it at the same level even if he does get in, because he will have missed out on the foundational work that was taught in the previous years. That's why they SHOULD be allowed to do testing and placement. The argument against it is irrational.

I'm not that PP, but I don't read that PP's long posts as being against placement assessments for higher grades. What she or he seems to be saying is that it's the nature of policy changes that, once you crack the door open on a contentious policy to allow upper grade testing, it's a steep slippery slope towards allowing it at all grades. I used to do educational policy work in other states and have seen this happen. So if maintaining equal access opportunities to the main entry grades is a top priority for some, it's possible to value bilingual students but know that it will erode the access within a couple of years. PP may have had similar policy change experiences. It's a valid concern.