Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a restaurant, probably not in Sheboygan, fair enough. (But for The French Laundry, of course. Say you’re eating there and watch the reaction.) For a college or a law firm or Duke basketball and lots of other things, yep. Prestige is a word for a real thing. Like it or buy into it or not, perceived value is real.

I didn’t say prestige wasn’t real. (In fact, I said it was sociological). Just that it isn’t meaningful or consequential when the category is defined so narrowly/particularly as Midwestern SLACs or Sheboygan restaurants.

Understood. What if someone said most prestigious in New England? Guess I’m trying to understand your point as it relates to the Midwest as a thing.

The most prestigious SLACs in the US have to be somewhere and a number are in NE. But their prestige isn’t seen as a function of (or defined in terms of) their location.* It’s like your French Laundry example. It’s a prestigious restaurant in California (vs one of CA’s most prestigious restaurants). The competition (for prestige) isn’t primarily limited to or among restaurants in CA; nor are the arbiters/judges limited to Californians— and if it/they were, the amount of prestige at stake would be much less (regional rep vs world renowned; Bib Gourmand vs Michelin stars). So “are there any prestigious SLACs in the Midwest?” might be a sensible question (especially if accompanied by a comment about target audience/type of appeal), but “Most prestigious SLAC in the Midwest?” isn’t really. No one’s ranking that way.

*though some might argue, persuasively, that there’s a locational bias (rooted in part in an historical/establishment bias?) wrt collegiate prestige. But the point remains that the prestige of NE SLACs isn’t vis a vis other NE SLACs but among SLACs more generally.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a restaurant, probably not in Sheboygan, fair enough. (But for The French Laundry, of course. Say you’re eating there and watch the reaction.) For a college or a law firm or Duke basketball and lots of other things, yep. Prestige is a word for a real thing. Like it or buy into it or not, perceived value is real.

I didn’t say prestige wasn’t real. (In fact, I said it was sociological). Just that it isn’t meaningful or consequential when the category is defined so narrowly/particularly as Midwestern SLACs or Sheboygan restaurants.

Understood. What if someone said most prestigious in New England? Guess I’m trying to understand your point as it relates to the Midwest as a thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Most prestigious Midwest LAC” is just not a meaningful/consequential category in the real world.

TIL that the Midwest is not the real world. Seriously, the Midwest has prestige preferences just like every other section of the country. Grinnell or Carleton or Knox or Kenyon or Oberlin have more name recognition in Chicago or Minneapolis or St Louis than a school like Bowdoin, even though Bowdoin is higher ranking nationally. Regional preference matters. Similarly, UVa is more prestigious in DC than Washington University in St. Louis, but WUSTL is is more prestigious in the Midwest than UVa, even though they are very similar schools, with very similar student bodies.

If that’s what you learned, you’re not a very smart student. I’m from the Midwest — I know it’s part of the real world. But while people there might assign (a) different pecking order/s to various colleges than, say, East Coasters or Californians, the hierarchies involved won’t differentiate between universities and SLACs. And, elsewhere, people who care only about SLACs will rank them across geographical boundaries rather than treat Midwestern SLACs as a distinct category. There’s never a context in which “best SLAC in the Midwest” confers some kind of prestige or reward. So “What are the best SLACs in the Midwest?” or “Which Midwestern SLACs have the best placement records (in specific industries or places or wrt grad/professional school admissions)?” are sensible questions. But the question OP posed is just absurd.

Why is it absurd? Not fundamentally different than “what’s the best restaurant in Sheboygan?” Someone wants or has to be in Sheboygan and wants to know where they should eat. Doesn’t mean there aren’t differences of opinion on the matter but it’s a legitimate question.

“Prestige” is what makes it absurd. Prestige isn’t compartmentalized that way and it’s sociological rather than personal. “What’s the most prestigious restaurant in Sheboygan?” would be a ludicrous question, don’t you think?

No. There are amazing restaurants with national recognition all over the country, not just in big cities on the coasts. The chef at Trattoria Stefano in Sheboygan has been nominated for the James Beard award, for example. So if I happened to be in Sheboygan and wanted to go to a restaurant that is highly regarding in the culinary world, “What’s the most prestigious restaurant in Sheboygan?” is an excellent question to ask.

Anonymous wrote:For a restaurant, probably not in Sheboygan, fair enough. (But for The French Laundry, of course. Say you’re eating there and watch the reaction.) For a college or a law firm or Duke basketball and lots of other things, yep. Prestige is a word for a real thing. Like it or buy into it or not, perceived value is real.

I didn’t say prestige wasn’t real. (In fact, I said it was sociological). Just that it isn’t meaningful or consequential when the category is defined so narrowly/particularly as Midwestern SLACs or Sheboygan restaurants.

For a restaurant, probably not in Sheboygan, fair enough. (But for The French Laundry, of course. Say you’re eating there and watch the reaction.) For a college or a law firm or Duke basketball and lots of other things, yep. Prestige is a word for a real thing. Like it or buy into it or not, perceived value is real.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Most prestigious Midwest LAC” is just not a meaningful/consequential category in the real world.

TIL that the Midwest is not the real world. Seriously, the Midwest has prestige preferences just like every other section of the country. Grinnell or Carleton or Knox or Kenyon or Oberlin have more name recognition in Chicago or Minneapolis or St Louis than a school like Bowdoin, even though Bowdoin is higher ranking nationally. Regional preference matters. Similarly, UVa is more prestigious in DC than Washington University in St. Louis, but WUSTL is is more prestigious in the Midwest than UVa, even though they are very similar schools, with very similar student bodies.

If that’s what you learned, you’re not a very smart student. I’m from the Midwest — I know it’s part of the real world. But while people there might assign (a) different pecking order/s to various colleges than, say, East Coasters or Californians, the hierarchies involved won’t differentiate between universities and SLACs. And, elsewhere, people who care only about SLACs will rank them across geographical boundaries rather than treat Midwestern SLACs as a distinct category. There’s never a context in which “best SLAC in the Midwest” confers some kind of prestige or reward. So “What are the best SLACs in the Midwest?” or “Which Midwestern SLACs have the best placement records (in specific industries or places or wrt grad/professional school admissions)?” are sensible questions. But the question OP posed is just absurd.

Why is it absurd? Not fundamentally different than “what’s the best restaurant in Sheboygan?” Someone wants or has to be in Sheboygan and wants to know where they should eat. Doesn’t mean there aren’t differences of opinion on the matter but it’s a legitimate question.

“Prestige” is what makes it absurd. Prestige isn’t compartmentalized that way and it’s sociological rather than personal. “What’s the most prestigious restaurant in Sheboygan?” would be a ludicrous question, don’t you think?

Anonymous wrote:These schools are for bare-footed introverts. Pass already.

More like Bean boots. Too damn cold for bare feet most of the time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Most prestigious Midwest LAC” is just not a meaningful/consequential category in the real world.

TIL that the Midwest is not the real world. Seriously, the Midwest has prestige preferences just like every other section of the country. Grinnell or Carleton or Knox or Kenyon or Oberlin have more name recognition in Chicago or Minneapolis or St Louis than a school like Bowdoin, even though Bowdoin is higher ranking nationally. Regional preference matters. Similarly, UVa is more prestigious in DC than Washington University in St. Louis, but WUSTL is is more prestigious in the Midwest than UVa, even though they are very similar schools, with very similar student bodies.

If that’s what you learned, you’re not a very smart student. I’m from the Midwest — I know it’s part of the real world. But while people there might assign (a) different pecking order/s to various colleges than, say, East Coasters or Californians, the hierarchies involved won’t differentiate between universities and SLACs. And, elsewhere, people who care only about SLACs will rank them across geographical boundaries rather than treat Midwestern SLACs as a distinct category. There’s never a context in which “best SLAC in the Midwest” confers some kind of prestige or reward. So “What are the best SLACs in the Midwest?” or “Which Midwestern SLACs have the best placement records (in specific industries or places or wrt grad/professional school admissions)?” are sensible questions. But the question OP posed is just absurd.

Why is it absurd? Not fundamentally different than “what’s the best restaurant in Sheboygan?” Someone wants or has to be in Sheboygan and wants to know where they should eat. Doesn’t mean there aren’t differences of opinion on the matter but it’s a legitimate question.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oberlin and Drake are probably the most prestigious. Macalester and Albion also have a lot of international students.

Drake isn’t a liberal arts college. Albion has a lot of financial issues- doesn’t surprise me they’d recruit full pay international students.

Drake is a liberal arts college...Albion is very well-regarded.

No. It’s not. By definition, it’s not.

See, even they say it’s not:
https://www.drake.edu/about/

Right. I think Drake is a wonderful school but it simply is not a liberal arts college. USNews has it in Regional and that is a good description.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Most prestigious Midwest LAC” is just not a meaningful/consequential category in the real world.

TIL that the Midwest is not the real world. Seriously, the Midwest has prestige preferences just like every other section of the country. Grinnell or Carleton or Knox or Kenyon or Oberlin have more name recognition in Chicago or Minneapolis or St Louis than a school like Bowdoin, even though Bowdoin is higher ranking nationally. Regional preference matters. Similarly, UVa is more prestigious in DC than Washington University in St. Louis, but WUSTL is is more prestigious in the Midwest than UVa, even though they are very similar schools, with very similar student bodies.

If that’s what you learned, you’re not a very smart student. I’m from the Midwest — I know it’s part of the real world. But while people there might assign (a) different pecking order/s to various colleges than, say, East Coasters or Californians, the hierarchies involved won’t differentiate between universities and SLACs. And, elsewhere, people who care only about SLACs will rank them across geographical boundaries rather than treat Midwestern SLACs as a distinct category. There’s never a context in which “best SLAC in the Midwest” confers some kind of prestige or reward. So “What are the best SLACs in the Midwest?” or “Which Midwestern SLACs have the best placement records (in specific industries or places or wrt grad/professional school admissions)?” are sensible questions. But the question OP posed is just absurd.

These schools are for bare-footed introverts. Pass already.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Seriously folks, it's Carleton and there can be no credible dispute. Check out the USNWR rankings, which put it at #5 in the country, well above any other school mentioned in this thread.

Carleton is in a 4-way tie for 5th. Grinnell is 3 down from it.

Exactly. And historically they've been neck and neck. In 1990 Carleton was 14 and Grinnell was 10, and in 1989 Grinnell was 8 and Carleton 12. That was back when peer assessment -- in other words, reputation -- was the predominate factor in the ratings.

The idea that it's always been Carleton and nobody else is flatly wrong.

Anonymous wrote:Seriously folks, it's Carleton and there can be no credible dispute. Check out the USNWR rankings, which put it at #5 in the country, well above any other school mentioned in this thread.

Carleton is in a 4-way tie for 5th. Grinnell is 3 down from it.

Seriously folks, it's Carleton and there can be no credible dispute. Check out the USNWR rankings, which put it at #5 in the country, well above any other school mentioned in this thread.

Anonymous wrote:“Most prestigious Midwest LAC” is just not a meaningful/consequential category in the real world.

TIL that the Midwest is not the real world. Seriously, the Midwest has prestige preferences just like every other section of the country. Grinnell or Carleton or Knox or Kenyon or Oberlin have more name recognition in Chicago or Minneapolis or St Louis than a school like Bowdoin, even though Bowdoin is higher ranking nationally. Regional preference matters. Similarly, UVa is more prestigious in DC than Washington University in St. Louis, but WUSTL is is more prestigious in the Midwest than UVa, even though they are very similar schools, with very similar student bodies.