Anonymous wrote:

But, none of them should have seen the test before. You won't get test results that will really tell you anything if some of the kids have never seen the test and some have been going over old test copies for 30 minutes a day all summer. This test is not the same as the SAT or MCAT, which test subject matter which can and should be studied for. The second grade tests are to gauge how a child handles problems they have never seen before. Clearly, it wouldn't be a true test of that when kids have been shown in advance how to do the problems. Kids in AAP learn new things quickly, so that is an ability they are looking for in these tests.

Dummy, don't you know one can improve one's performance by training and practise? Take your junk science back home or to your place of worship.

"Yes, there are people who make a lot of money selling books and even courses to prepare children to take these tests."

"PP you are referring to. My parents never prepped me for anything. I aced every exam I took as a young child. I then became a diligent student as I got older. I don't think it is parental persistence; it is individual persistence."

"I grew up in another state. I was in MG (mentally gifted) and took all honors in junior high and all honors/AP classes in high school."

WHO CARES??? Can we stop talking about you and get back to the NAACP complaint?

Certain minority groups are very underrepresented in AAP and TJ. I do not think anyone is suggesting that we "dumb down" any tests or lower any standards.

If there is a gap here, why does the gap exist? Several posts here point to 1)intelligence 2) interest 3) ambition or "individual persistence"

So are we saying that these minority groups lack these things?? As one PP noted the correlation between mother's educational attainment and child's academic success - I am sure there is also a correlation between parents' income and child's academic success.

Sooooo, do we care? Or do we still insist that the poor kids are just not smart, interested or ambitious enough and too bad for them?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"If they've never seen the test, they're at a disadvantage."

But, none of them should have seen the test before. You won't get test results that will really tell you anything if some of the kids have never seen the test and some have been going over old test copies for 30 minutes a day all summer. This test is not the same as the SAT or MCAT, which test subject matter which can and should be studied for. The second grade tests are to gauge how a child handles problems they have never seen before. Clearly, it wouldn't be a true test of that when kids have been shown in advance how to do the problems. Kids in AAP learn new things quickly, so that is an ability they are looking for in these tests.

kind of a moot point, since we all know this is a common occurrence around here.

Can you actually go out and buy books that prep you for this test in 2nd grade?

My son is only in preschool but we have about 20 books from the preschool section at Barnes and Nobles. I don't think I am prepping him to take any test. I am teaching him how to write letters and count.

Yes, there are people who make a lot of money selling books and even courses to prepare children to take these tests.

I do admit that if there is a book out there, I would probably buy it. I won't spend our entire summer prepping my child for this test but I would probably go through the book once or so.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"If they've never seen the test, they're at a disadvantage."

But, none of them should have seen the test before. You won't get test results that will really tell you anything if some of the kids have never seen the test and some have been going over old test copies for 30 minutes a day all summer. This test is not the same as the SAT or MCAT, which test subject matter which can and should be studied for. The second grade tests are to gauge how a child handles problems they have never seen before. Clearly, it wouldn't be a true test of that when kids have been shown in advance how to do the problems. Kids in AAP learn new things quickly, so that is an ability they are looking for in these tests.

kind of a moot point, since we all know this is a common occurrence around here.

Can you actually go out and buy books that prep you for this test in 2nd grade?

My son is only in preschool but we have about 20 books from the preschool section at Barnes and Nobles. I don't think I am prepping him to take any test. I am teaching him how to write letters and count.

Yes, there are people who make a lot of money selling books and even courses to prepare children to take these tests.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"intelligence" is NOT the same as an interest in STEM, and to get in - it's not just test scores, but a proven interests/accomplishment in STEM.
I'm sure some blacks and Hispanics have such an interest, but being "intelligent" isn't enough.

^ was referring to getting into TJ, not AAP. The latter, as someone above noted, seems to be more a matter of test-prepping and parental persistence.

PP you are referring to. My parents never prepped me for anything. I aced every exam I took as a young child. I then became a diligent student as I got older. I don't think it is parental persistence; it is individual persistence.

were you in AAP?

a second grader doesn't know anything about AAP or the CogAT. If they've never seen the test, they're at a disadvantage. It's really become an arms race out there these days.

I grew up in another state. I was in MG (mentally gifted) and took all honors in junior high and all honors/AP classes in high school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"If they've never seen the test, they're at a disadvantage."

But, none of them should have seen the test before. You won't get test results that will really tell you anything if some of the kids have never seen the test and some have been going over old test copies for 30 minutes a day all summer. This test is not the same as the SAT or MCAT, which test subject matter which can and should be studied for. The second grade tests are to gauge how a child handles problems they have never seen before. Clearly, it wouldn't be a true test of that when kids have been shown in advance how to do the problems. Kids in AAP learn new things quickly, so that is an ability they are looking for in these tests.

kind of a moot point, since we all know this is a common occurrence around here.

Can you actually go out and buy books that prep you for this test in 2nd grade?

My son is only in preschool but we have about 20 books from the preschool section at Barnes and Nobles. I don't think I am prepping him to take any test. I am teaching him how to write letters and count.

Anonymous wrote:"If they've never seen the test, they're at a disadvantage."

But, none of them should have seen the test before. You won't get test results that will really tell you anything if some of the kids have never seen the test and some have been going over old test copies for 30 minutes a day all summer. This test is not the same as the SAT or MCAT, which test subject matter which can and should be studied for. The second grade tests are to gauge how a child handles problems they have never seen before. Clearly, it wouldn't be a true test of that when kids have been shown in advance how to do the problems. Kids in AAP learn new things quickly, so that is an ability they are looking for in these tests.

kind of a moot point, since we all know this is a common occurrence around here.

"If they've never seen the test, they're at a disadvantage."

But, none of them should have seen the test before. You won't get test results that will really tell you anything if some of the kids have never seen the test and some have been going over old test copies for 30 minutes a day all summer. This test is not the same as the SAT or MCAT, which test subject matter which can and should be studied for. The second grade tests are to gauge how a child handles problems they have never seen before. Clearly, it wouldn't be a true test of that when kids have been shown in advance how to do the problems. Kids in AAP learn new things quickly, so that is an ability they are looking for in these tests.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"intelligence" is NOT the same as an interest in STEM, and to get in - it's not just test scores, but a proven interests/accomplishment in STEM.
I'm sure some blacks and Hispanics have such an interest, but being "intelligent" isn't enough.

^ was referring to getting into TJ, not AAP. The latter, as someone above noted, seems to be more a matter of test-prepping and parental persistence.

PP you are referring to. My parents never prepped me for anything. I aced every exam I took as a young child. I then became a diligent student as I got older. I don't think it is parental persistence; it is individual persistence.

were you in AAP?

a second grader doesn't know anything about AAP or the CogAT. If they've never seen the test, they're at a disadvantage. It's really become an arms race out there these days.

The teachers go through test taking strategies before the NNAT2 is administered in 1st grade. Likewise, the test taking strategies review is done once again in 2nd grade. I have no idea how they will ready the students for the Fairfax Abilities Test in October, but I am guessing it will be similsr to what they have done in the past for the CogAT.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"intelligence" is NOT the same as an interest in STEM, and to get in - it's not just test scores, but a proven interests/accomplishment in STEM.
I'm sure some blacks and Hispanics have such an interest, but being "intelligent" isn't enough.

^ was referring to getting into TJ, not AAP. The latter, as someone above noted, seems to be more a matter of test-prepping and parental persistence.

PP you are referring to. My parents never prepped me for anything. I aced every exam I took as a young child. I then became a diligent student as I got older. I don't think it is parental persistence; it is individual persistence.

were you in AAP?

a second grader doesn't know anything about AAP or the CogAT. If they've never seen the test, they're at a disadvantage. It's really become an arms race out there these days.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"intelligence" is NOT the same as an interest in STEM, and to get in - it's not just test scores, but a proven interests/accomplishment in STEM.
I'm sure some blacks and Hispanics have such an interest, but being "intelligent" isn't enough.

^ was referring to getting into TJ, not AAP. The latter, as someone above noted, seems to be more a matter of test-prepping and parental persistence.

PP you are referring to. My parents never prepped me for anything. I aced every exam I took as a young child. I then became a diligent student as I got older. I don't think it is parental persistence; it is individual persistence.

Anonymous wrote:"intelligence" is NOT the same as an interest in STEM, and to get in - it's not just test scores, but a proven interests/accomplishment in STEM.
I'm sure some blacks and Hispanics have such an interest, but being "intelligent" isn't enough.

^ was referring to getting into TJ, not AAP. The latter, as someone above noted, seems to be more a matter of test-prepping and parental persistence.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree - ridiculous to say nothing prepares one for these abilities tests.

And the Committee sees right through the test-prepped cases, and thankfully the test scores (for the NNAT2, the CogAT and now the Fairfax Abilities Test) are not the sole determinant of AAP Center eligibility.

What do people mean by test prepped cases?

I studied for my SATs and GREs. DH studied his ass off for MCATs and boards. People study for tests. I don't see what the big deal is. Students who study score better than students who don't study.

"intelligence" is NOT the same as an interest in STEM, and to get in - it's not just test scores, but a proven interests/accomplishment in STEM.
I'm sure some blacks and Hispanics have such an interest, but being "intelligent" isn't enough.