NP here.

1. Why are some of you arguing that since you're not getting a raise, teachers shouldn't get one either? The Country (probably influenced by union) decided. Fight them/kick them out if you think they decided wrong.

2. You don't have to be fighting in Afghanistan to be doing a hard job. Teachers often work 60-80hrs a week to keep up with the work (I've known many teachers and they grade/plan on vacation, at night, in the morning, in the commutes.) Not to mention they have to be social worker, child psychologists, comedian, cheerleader, and role model to children. Your children. You try to get someone else to do all that work, and you'll be paying a lot more. (aside note, I had a friend complain that the private tutor doesn't address the DC's study habits. The tutors response was that I get paid to teach the materials, not to raise your child.)

3. Fighting amongst yourselves for the raises that teachers (and other public workers get) just means the 1% is winning the culture wars. The poor fight amongst themselves so they never fight the 1% who get preferential tax breaks and subsidies for being job creators (capitalism my butt. they feed on govt more than public workers).

4. Those of you complaining about union benefits/influence. Not so many years ago, people laughed at public workers be cause they gave up raises and high pay to work in public sectors. They chose job security and benefits over high pay and mobility. Govt had trouble retaining workers because they jumped ship to get better pay in the private sector. Now that economy's tanking, people blame "high wages and benefits" of public workers. Ya? Tough shit. It wasn't the public workers who tanked the economy. You're too chickenshit to blame the greedy bankers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP was talking about people with a JOB, go back to reading comprehension 101 Teacher! You couldn't do my job for half an hour.

No need for that. I was pointing out that many people who post here with so called "jobs" don't actually have one, unless you consider a day at the spa a job. I suppose sarcasm is beyond your intellectual capacity.

BTW, I most certainly could do your job. Like most teachers, I hold more than one advanced degree. Before you post, they're not from on-line institutions either. In fact, you'd kill for your kids to attend the schools I attended.

Strayer doesn't count. Neither does Univ of Phoenix. Now, put on your sweatpants and go to work.

8:17 here. With your personality, I'd be surprised if you could hold any job.

8:17 here, I'm not the teacher, but I'm on her side.

I certainly don't have MCPS turnover data because I have no association with MCPS besides sending my kids there. However, I work in research, so I'm aware it's quite common for data to be released with a lag of 1, 2 or even 3 years. Think about it: first, somebody (schools? central admin?) needs to report turnover stats, so if the fiscal year ends in June maybe they have until September to report. Then the statistic types in central admin need to compile it, somebody needs to compose a press release, about a dozen other people need to sign off. The worst part is tracking down the outliers: quite frequently, you get data like Poolesville reported 120% turnover (I'm making this up), but we know this isn't right, so we go to Poolesville to ask for an explanation or correct figures, and it sits on someone's desk at Poolesville for 2 months. I work with federal data and I see this sort of thing all the time. A friend worked at the World Bank and he claims the country-level data there really needs to be scrubbed.

So consider: FY2010 closed in June 2010. We're almost in July 2012. In my long experience with federal data, 2 years is about on course and maybe we'll get the new release soon.

Sure, BLS releases inflation and unemployment data with a 2-month lag. But that's the result of thousands of surveys, interviews and the rest. It's very expensive to do this, but it's considered worth it to get good, current stats on the economy. Do you really want MCPS concentrating proportionate resources on turnover data?

So I certainly wouldn't read anything nefarious into MCPS' failure to provide data for 2010 by now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP was talking about people with a JOB, go back to reading comprehension 101 Teacher! You couldn't do my job for half an hour.

No need for that. I was pointing out that many people who post here with so called "jobs" don't actually have one, unless you consider a day at the spa a job. I suppose sarcasm is beyond your intellectual capacity.

BTW, I most certainly could do your job. Like most teachers, I hold more than one advanced degree. Before you post, they're not from on-line institutions either. In fact, you'd kill for your kids to attend the schools I attended.

Strayer doesn't count. Neither does Univ of Phoenix. Now, put on your sweatpants and go to work.

Anonymous wrote:PP was talking about people with a JOB, go back to reading comprehension 101 Teacher! You couldn't do my job for half an hour.

No need for that. I was pointing out that many people who post here with so called "jobs" don't actually have one, unless you consider a day at the spa a job. I suppose sarcasm is beyond your intellectual capacity.

BTW, I most certainly could do your job. Like most teachers, I hold more than one advanced degree. Before you post, they're not from on-line institutions either. In fact, you'd kill for your kids to attend the schools I attended.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know what's grosser. That, or the hypocrisy that kills me is the PP who says she wouldn't send her dog to public school - check for her post above - doing her utmost to stiff public school teachers so she can have a few more pennies in her pocket for private school. Ugh.

Actually, the grossest is the entitled teacher having a little hissy fit about how much she deserved her raise and carrying on like she spent all day fighting for freedom from a foxhole.

I'd love to see you in my shoes for ONE day.

You could never handle it.

I'd pay YOU to do that b/c it would be worth the entertainment.

JMO, but I'd guess the average person posting here could take over your job for a day a lot more effectively than you could take over theirs.

not that you'll even care to read this

here one year, gone the next
introuble b/c of management problems

No, hon, YOU would suffer miserably if you did my job, and I'd gladly watch you fail.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

JMO, but I'd guess the average person posting here could take over your job for a day a lot more effectively than you could take over theirs.

Nah, anyone can back the car out of the garage, head over to Starbucks, sip an overpriced drink, and then race to arrive on time for the mani-pedi. Nothing to it!

PP was talking about people with a JOB, go back to reading comprehension 101 Teacher! You couldn't do my job for half an hour.

Different PP here. So what if she couldn't do your job, what does that have to do with the price of beans?

The point is, with your regular hissy fits on this thread, horrible math skills, and constant bad logic, you'd make a truly awful teacher I wouldn't want near my kids. Perhaps you could get a job in a private school, though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

JMO, but I'd guess the average person posting here could take over your job for a day a lot more effectively than you could take over theirs.

Nah, anyone can back the car out of the garage, head over to Starbucks, sip an overpriced drink, and then race to arrive on time for the mani-pedi. Nothing to it!

PP was talking about people with a JOB, go back to reading comprehension 101 Teacher! You couldn't do my job for half an hour.

Anonymous wrote:20:27's Greatest Hits:

- Linking to data from 2007, pre-recession, and claiming it's relevant to 2012
- The 2007 data above makes apples-to-oranges comparison of MCPS teachers to professors and other educators nationwide
- Banging the drum for an MCPS Parents Union when she's not an MCPS parent
- Loses her cool so, so easily. Like when she was outed as a private school parent a few pages ago and made the regrettable "dog" comment.
- Accuses MCPS of "hiding" FY2012 data that couldn't possibly exist until FY2012 ends

And that's just the last few pages. I'm sure there's more. I can't take credit for all of these, although I'm proud of the FY2012 bit.

Another typo in bold. It is very valid to make fun of my typos Let me repost here:

My mistake. I said 2011 and 2012, when I should have said 2010 and 2011. The point is still valid, so I think you are overdoing it a bit. If you read the old post, the turnover data that was presented went up to 2009. Someone said the pay freezes started in 2010. MCPS must have turnover data for 2010 and 2011. Given an 8 yr trend of 5-8% turnover up to 2009, it is up to MCPS/school board/you to prove that something has changed. Now it could be that you have the opinion is that there is no uptick in turnover now, but we need to act in order to prevent a possible uptick. That is valid, but it is a much weaker case than saying teachers are leaving because of the pay freeze. Given the poor economy, I would wait until I see some uptick in turnover and some decline in teacher job applications before making this case. So what is your opinion, do you or MCPS have data to show that turnover is moving up to 20%, 30% or more from 4.7% in 2009 or are you just anticipating that this to happen? If teachers do leave, where will they go? If they go to other professions, are they leaving because of the pay or because of other factors?

As for all the name calling, that is not me. Your assumptions about who is posting are just not true (for example, my kids are not in private school, they are in MCPS). I just ignore these name-calling posts. If you want to bash me, then I probably won't hit back. If you want to discuss, I will. I am betting that you will find some way to divert the argument away from my question about turnover in 2010 and 2011, but I hope you will prove me wrong.

Anonymous wrote:20:27's Greatest Hits:

- Linking to data from 2007, pre-recession, and claiming it's relevant to 2012
- The 2007 data above makes apples-to-oranges comparison of MCPS teachers to professors and other educators nationwide
- Banging the drum for an MCPS Parents Union when she's not an MCPS parent
- Loses her cool so, so easily. Like when she was outed as a private school parent a few pages ago and made the regrettable "dog" comment.
- Accuses MCPS of "hiding" FY2012 data that couldn't possibly exist until FY2012 ends

And that's just the last few pages. I'm sure there's more. I can't take credit for all of these, although I'm proud of the FY2012 bit.

My mistake. I said 2011 and 2012, when I should have said 2010 and 2011. The point is still valid, so I think you are overdoing it a bit. If you read the old post, the turnover data that was presented went up to 2009. Someone said the pay freezes stopped in 2010. MCPS must have turnover data for 2010 and 2011. Given an 8 yr trend of 5-8% turnover up to 2009, it is up to MCPS/school board/you to prove that something has changed. Now it could be that you have the opinion is that there is no uptick in turnover now, but we need to act in order to prevent a possible uptick. That is valid, but it is a much weaker case than saying teachers are leaving because of the pay freeze. Given the poor economy, I would wait until I see some uptick in turnover and some decline in teacher job applications before making this case. So what is your opinion, do you or MCPS have data to show that turnover is moving up to 20%, 30% or more from 4.7% in 2009 or are you just anticipating that this to happen? If teachers do leave, where will they go? If they go to other professions, are they leaving because of the pay or because of other factors?

As for all the name calling, that is not me. Your assumptions about who is posting are just not true (for example, my kids are not in private school, they are in MCPS). I just ignore these name-calling posts. If you want to bash me, then I probably won't hit back. If you want to discuss, I will. I am betting that you will find some way to divert the argument away from my question about turnover in 2010 and 2011, but I hope you will prove me wrong.

Parent's Union? Sounds like Parent's Coalition. Same thing. A couple of loud mouthed house fraus with nothing better to do than sling mud upon teachers. Would this Parent's Union have a Janus too?

Anonymous wrote:

JMO, but I'd guess the average person posting here could take over your job for a day a lot more effectively than you could take over theirs.

Nah, anyone can back the car out of the garage, head over to Starbucks, sip an overpriced drink, and then race to arrive on time for the mani-pedi. Nothing to it!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know what's grosser. That, or the hypocrisy that kills me is the PP who says she wouldn't send her dog to public school - check for her post above - doing her utmost to stiff public school teachers so she can have a few more pennies in her pocket for private school. Ugh.

Actually, the grossest is the entitled teacher having a little hissy fit about how much she deserved her raise and carrying on like she spent all day fighting for freedom from a foxhole.

I'd love to see you in my shoes for ONE day.

You could never handle it.

I'd pay YOU to do that b/c it would be worth the entertainment.

JMO, but I'd guess the average person posting here could take over your job for a day a lot more effectively than you could take over theirs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know what's grosser. That, or the hypocrisy that kills me is the PP who says she wouldn't send her dog to public school - check for her post above - doing her utmost to stiff public school teachers so she can have a few more pennies in her pocket for private school. Ugh.

Actually, the grossest is the entitled teacher having a little hissy fit about how much she deserved her raise and carrying on like she spent all day fighting for freedom from a foxhole.

I'd love to see you in my shoes for ONE day.

You could never handle it.

I'd pay YOU to do that b/c it would be worth the entertainment.

20:27's Greatest Hits:

- Linking to data from 2007, pre-recession, and claiming it's relevant to 2012
- The 2007 data above makes apples-to-oranges comparison of MCPS teachers to professors and other educators nationwide
- Banging the drum for an MCPS Parents Union when she's not an MCPS parent
- Loses her cool so, so easily. Like when she was outed as a private school parent a few pages ago and made the regrettable "dog" comment.
- Accuses MCPS of "hiding" FY2012 data that couldn't possibly exist until FY2012 ends

And that's just the last few pages. I'm sure there's more. I can't take credit for all of these, although I'm proud of the FY2012 bit.