Your post is full of so many sad assumptions that I don't know where to start. So you think the siblings of kids with Ds are neglected and suffer? I can introduce you to lots of families (many pro-choice and liberal by the way, as I am) where that isn't true at all. True, children with Ds often need therapies. So do many "typical" kids. If you definitely can't provide for the kinds of needs most kids with Ds have financially, then it's doubtful you can provide financially for any kid, because most kids with Ds don't take expensive medicine or need constant expensive therapies. I might add that any one of a number of things can happen with a typically developing kid which would necessitate expensive meds, or therapies. And again, if the strain of a kid with Ds will break up your marriage (the lives of most kids with Ds don't differ that tremendously from those of "typical" kids) then there is a good liklihood it won't survive parenthood, which can be challenging period. Why is it worth it to do all the hard work to raise a "typical" kid but not one with Ds? What are we really striving for here? Would you abort for autism? Extreme shyness? Mental illness? ADHD? Sensory processing disorders? Bi-polar? Because lots of kids fall under some umbrella of special needs, it just isn't detectable prenatally.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PP, are you in DC? If so, find out if your kids can qualify for Katie Beckett Health Care Waiver.
Big hugs, from another Mom with almost your exact same life. xxoo

Thanks but we're in NOVA. It's really frustrating when people say that having an SN child as bad as you think and there are resources out there to assist. There aren't. Those people are all about pregnancy and not about day-to-day life. The two organizations posters provided links to ( http://jillshouse.org/ and http://www.hopeinnova.org/ ) don't provide the kind of support I posted about needing. HOPE in Nova is all about 'crisis pregnancy' and Jill's House only accepts kids starting at age 6 and there's still a cost to the parents - and I also have one 'normal' child. It would be nice to be able to give her more time and to have money for her to do classes like ballet. I forgot to include the cost of relationship counseling for DH and I. Having SN kids has really put a strain on our relationship. I should just walk away from this thread.

No one should think or assume that having a child with special needs is easy. And it's true you have more on your plate than people with only typically developing kids (although those take lots of time and money too, and can put a strain on marriage). But what is the counter argument here? Kids with disabilities don't deserve to be born because they may take more work? No one should talk about the positive aspects of children with disabilities because there are negatives too? Do you wish you had aborted your SN child? I mean maybe you do, and maybe in the context of your situation that makes sense. But it isn't obvious to me that because a person will take more work to raise, or care for, that they don't deserve to be alive. And if, even as a liberal, a person stands up for the rights of disabled kids, many people will say...that child shouldn't even be here, the parents should have aborted him. And also if you argue for the rights of kids with disabilities like Down syndrome to exist, or even just that the obvious solution to the diagnosis doesn't have to be termination, then you are called anti-choice, which I'm not. Abort a kid with Down syndrome, you have that right. But that doesn't mean I have to think it's always the best choice, and that doesn't mean it might not make it harder for kids with special needs who are already born.

I'm sorry you are struggling.

So I should be determined to bring a DS baby into this world for the greater good? Is that your argument? Screw whether I can financially provide the best care and therapy, screw that my marriage might not last over it, screw that my other children will suffer and be neglected while I run around trying to take care of my one child's demanding needs. Screw that. The most important thing here is that I have him/her so you won't judge me and we can populate the world with DS children for everyone else's benefit. Screw my personal choice.

No! Not for the greater good, but maybe for the sake of the kid. And I never said screw your personal choice. Did you actually read what I wrote? I wrote, "Abort a kid with Down syndrome, you have that right."

Your post is full of so many sad assumptions that I don't know where to start. So you think the siblings of kids with Ds are neglected and suffer? I can introduce you to lots of families (many pro-choice and liberal by the way, as I am) where that isn't true at all. True, children with Ds often need therapies. So do many "typical" kids. If you definitely can't provide for the kinds of needs most kids with Ds have financially, then it's doubtful you can provide financially for any kid, because most kids with Ds don't take expensive medicine or need constant expensive therapies. I might add that any one of a number of things can happen with a typically developing kid which would necessitate expensive meds, or therapies. And again, if the strain of a kid with Ds will break up your marriage (the lives of most kids with Ds don't differ that tremendously from those of "typical" kids) then there is a good liklihood it won't survive parenthood, which can be challenging period. Why is it worth it to do all the hard work to raise a "typical" kid but not one with Ds? What are we really striving for here? Would you abort for autism? Extreme shyness? Mental illness? ADHD? Sensory processing disorders? Bi-polar? Because lots of kids fall under some umbrella of special needs, it just isn't detectable prenatally.

The most important thing here is not keeping me from judging you, no! The most important thing is not to stigmatize kids with Ds by perpetuating a lot of the myths you have in your previous post. But in the end the decision should be yours. But I don't have to like it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PP, are you in DC? If so, find out if your kids can qualify for Katie Beckett Health Care Waiver.
Big hugs, from another Mom with almost your exact same life. xxoo

Thanks but we're in NOVA. It's really frustrating when people say that having an SN child as bad as you think and there are resources out there to assist. There aren't. Those people are all about pregnancy and not about day-to-day life. The two organizations posters provided links to ( http://jillshouse.org/ and http://www.hopeinnova.org/ ) don't provide the kind of support I posted about needing. HOPE in Nova is all about 'crisis pregnancy' and Jill's House only accepts kids starting at age 6 and there's still a cost to the parents - and I also have one 'normal' child. It would be nice to be able to give her more time and to have money for her to do classes like ballet. I forgot to include the cost of relationship counseling for DH and I. Having SN kids has really put a strain on our relationship. I should just walk away from this thread.

No one should think or assume that having a child with special needs is easy. And it's true you have more on your plate than people with only typically developing kids (although those take lots of time and money too, and can put a strain on marriage). But what is the counter argument here? Kids with disabilities don't deserve to be born because they may take more work? No one should talk about the positive aspects of children with disabilities because there are negatives too? Do you wish you had aborted your SN child? I mean maybe you do, and maybe in the context of your situation that makes sense. But it isn't obvious to me that because a person will take more work to raise, or care for, that they don't deserve to be alive. And if, even as a liberal, a person stands up for the rights of disabled kids, many people will say...that child shouldn't even be here, the parents should have aborted him. And also if you argue for the rights of kids with disabilities like Down syndrome to exist, or even just that the obvious solution to the diagnosis doesn't have to be termination, then you are called anti-choice, which I'm not. Abort a kid with Down syndrome, you have that right. But that doesn't mean I have to think it's always the best choice, and that doesn't mean it might not make it harder for kids with special needs who are already born.

I'm sorry you are struggling.

So I should be determined to bring a DS baby into this world for the greater good? Is that your argument? Screw whether I can financially provide the best care and therapy, screw that my marriage might not last over it, screw that my other children will suffer and be neglected while I run around trying to take care of my one child's demanding needs. Screw that. The most important thing here is that I have him/her so you won't judge me and we can populate the world with DS children for everyone else's benefit. Screw my personal choice.

No! Not for the greater good, but maybe for the sake of the kid. And I never said screw your personal choice. Did you actually read what I wrote? I wrote, "Abort a kid with Down syndrome, you have that right."

Your post is full of so many sad assumptions that I don't know where to start. So you think the siblings of kids with Ds are neglected and suffer? I can introduce you to lots of families (many pro-choice and liberal by the way, as I am) where that isn't true at all. True, children with Ds often need therapies. So do many "typical" kids. If you definitely can't provide for the kinds of needs most kids with Ds have financially, then it's doubtful you can provide financially for any kid, because most kids with Ds don't take expensive medicine or need constant expensive therapies. I might add that any one of a number of things can happen with a typically developing kid which would necessitate expensive meds, or therapies. And again, if the strain of a kid with Ds will break up your marriage (the lives of most kids with Ds don't differ that tremendously from those of "typical" kids) then there is a good liklihood it won't survive parenthood, which can be challenging period. Why is it worth it to do all the hard work to raise a "typical" kid but not one with Ds? What are we really striving for here? Would you abort for autism? Extreme shyness? Mental illness? ADHD? Sensory processing disorders? Bi-polar? Because lots of kids fall under some umbrella of special needs, it just isn't detectable prenatally.

The most important thing here is not keeping me from judging you, no! The most important thing is not to stigmatize kids with Ds by perpetuating a lot of the myths you have in your previous post. But in the end the decision should be yours. But I don't have to like it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PP, are you in DC? If so, find out if your kids can qualify for Katie Beckett Health Care Waiver.
Big hugs, from another Mom with almost your exact same life. xxoo

Thanks but we're in NOVA. It's really frustrating when people say that having an SN child as bad as you think and there are resources out there to assist. There aren't. Those people are all about pregnancy and not about day-to-day life. The two organizations posters provided links to ( http://jillshouse.org/ and http://www.hopeinnova.org/ ) don't provide the kind of support I posted about needing. HOPE in Nova is all about 'crisis pregnancy' and Jill's House only accepts kids starting at age 6 and there's still a cost to the parents - and I also have one 'normal' child. It would be nice to be able to give her more time and to have money for her to do classes like ballet. I forgot to include the cost of relationship counseling for DH and I. Having SN kids has really put a strain on our relationship. I should just walk away from this thread.

No one should think or assume that having a child with special needs is easy. And it's true you have more on your plate than people with only typically developing kids (although those take lots of time and money too, and can put a strain on marriage). But what is the counter argument here? Kids with disabilities don't deserve to be born because they may take more work? No one should talk about the positive aspects of children with disabilities because there are negatives too? Do you wish you had aborted your SN child? I mean maybe you do, and maybe in the context of your situation that makes sense. But it isn't obvious to me that because a person will take more work to raise, or care for, that they don't deserve to be alive. And if, even as a liberal, a person stands up for the rights of disabled kids, many people will say...that child shouldn't even be here, the parents should have aborted him. And also if you argue for the rights of kids with disabilities like Down syndrome to exist, or even just that the obvious solution to the diagnosis doesn't have to be termination, then you are called anti-choice, which I'm not. Abort a kid with Down syndrome, you have that right. But that doesn't mean I have to think it's always the best choice, and that doesn't mean it might not make it harder for kids with special needs who are already born.

I'm sorry you are struggling.

So I should be determined to bring a DS baby into this world for the greater good? Is that your argument? Screw whether I can financially provide the best care and therapy, screw that my marriage might not last over it, screw that my other children will suffer and be neglected while I run around trying to take care of my one child's demanding needs. Screw that. The most important thing here is that I have him/her so you won't judge me and we can populate the world with DS children for everyone else's benefit. Screw my personal choice.

Anonymous wrote:I think you need to MYOB. People make decisions for themselves based on THEIR life and THEIR situation.

No decision made is easy for parents in respect to this and I find your post offensive.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PP, are you in DC? If so, find out if your kids can qualify for Katie Beckett Health Care Waiver.
Big hugs, from another Mom with almost your exact same life. xxoo

Thanks but we're in NOVA. It's really frustrating when people say that having an SN child as bad as you think and there are resources out there to assist. There aren't. Those people are all about pregnancy and not about day-to-day life. The two organizations posters provided links to ( http://jillshouse.org/ and http://www.hopeinnova.org/ ) don't provide the kind of support I posted about needing. HOPE in Nova is all about 'crisis pregnancy' and Jill's House only accepts kids starting at age 6 and there's still a cost to the parents - and I also have one 'normal' child. It would be nice to be able to give her more time and to have money for her to do classes like ballet. I forgot to include the cost of relationship counseling for DH and I. Having SN kids has really put a strain on our relationship. I should just walk away from this thread.

No one should think or assume that having a child with special needs is easy. And it's true you have more on your plate than people with only typically developing kids (although those take lots of time and money too, and can put a strain on marriage). But what is the counter argument here? Kids with disabilities don't deserve to be born because they may take more work? No one should talk about the positive aspects of children with disabilities because there are negatives too? Do you wish you had aborted your SN child? I mean maybe you do, and maybe in the context of your situation that makes sense. But it isn't obvious to me that because a person will take more work to raise, or care for, that they don't deserve to be alive. And if, even as a liberal, a person stands up for the rights of disabled kids, many people will say...that child shouldn't even be here, the parents should have aborted him. And also if you argue for the rights of kids with disabilities like Down syndrome to exist, or even just that the obvious solution to the diagnosis doesn't have to be termination, then you are called anti-choice, which I'm not. Abort a kid with Down syndrome, you have that right. But that doesn't mean I have to think it's always the best choice, and that doesn't mean it might not make it harder for kids with special needs who are already born.
I'm sorry you are struggling.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What is all this focus on "judging" in today's society? Everything is so relativistic. Guess what, people judge, and they judge all the time. You ran a red light? We judge in society that you did so, and that is wrong. You didn't hold a door for someone who was just walking behind you and it slammed in their face? We judge: "You were rude." Yet in this one issue, everyone goes around repeating hook line and sinker the PP/NARAL line, "Don't judge, don't judge, don't judge." Boy, they really sent a lot of folks down the river on this one.

Hey, judge all you want - no skin off my nose. Your opinion of me is completely irrelevant. Hysterical screeds like the OP's ("How could you DO such a thing") and diatribes from the holy-roller set don't make me second-guess myself. But when you switch from judging my choice to actively trying to strip the ability to make that choice from me - that's where I start to get cranky.

Actually, there are many potential choices that are restricted by various laws. Judges, judgments, opinions, etc limit our choices all the time. We don't get to do whatever we want in this ole world. Sorry.

I'm glad the deliberately obtuse are able to join us today. Obviously, no one's talking about a free-for-all. Currently, the right to terminate a pregnancy is a choice that is protected by law. So when you good folk try to strip others of that choice, you're going to get some pushback. Disapprove all you want, but you'll have a battle on your hands when you move from tut-tutting to "since I don't agree with the choices you made, you lose the ability to make them." This can't be a surprise you you, can it?

Anonymous wrote:I am reading these abortion thread in tears. (Blame the 12 week hormones.) I cannot believe the number of women who are caviler about aborting a baby with downs, spina bifida, etc. My sister (in another part of the country) has an amazing little girl with spina bifida. This little girl is so smart (top reading group!), gorgeous, and has lots of friends. She is a speed demon in her wheelchair and will probably be doing backflips in her wheelchair soon. This is a kid that the doctors encouraged them to abort because of the "low quality of life"!!! There have been some challenging times for the family - 5 significant surgeries, 4 of which I flew out to be there for my sister. BUT, its not nearly as bad as people from the outside might think or imagine. My niece is just like any other 1st grade girl - she just so happens to need a wheelchair to play and has some (manageable!) extra medical needs. We are not a religious family, but I am so proud and grateful that my sister choose life for my niece!!!

My sister recently linked on FB to this blog of another SB family. It has stuck with me, esp this part:

"We have such a double standard going. We pat our kids on the head and tell them that they should be nice to the little kid in the wheelchair. Don't stare at the little girl bouncing on her toes trying to fly. Don't point at the little boy who looks a little different. Be nice. Be friendly. Just don't you dare be my child.

. . . .

If you ever find yourself in that position of discovering that your child is not going to be who you thought: relax. It's not going to be that bad. You are strong enough, you are amazing enough, you will do just fine. There's no need to panic. Remember that people with disabilities are people. They love, they laugh, they play, they communicate, they live. If you can get over yourself, you will do just fine."

http://thelittlekingsley.blogspot.com/2012/03/its-not-that-bad.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PP, are you in DC? If so, find out if your kids can qualify for Katie Beckett Health Care Waiver.
Big hugs, from another Mom with almost your exact same life. xxoo

Thanks but we're in NOVA. It's really frustrating when people say that having an SN child as bad as you think and there are resources out there to assist. There aren't. Those people are all about pregnancy and not about day-to-day life. The two organizations posters provided links to ( http://jillshouse.org/ and http://www.hopeinnova.org/ ) don't provide the kind of support I posted about needing. HOPE in Nova is all about 'crisis pregnancy' and Jill's House only accepts kids starting at age 6 and there's still a cost to the parents - and I also have one 'normal' child. It would be nice to be able to give her more time and to have money for her to do classes like ballet. I forgot to include the cost of relationship counseling for DH and I. Having SN kids has really put a strain on our relationship. I should just walk away from this thread.

PP, I am so sorry. The people on this thread either don't have SN kids or have plenty of resources and money to hire other people to deal with all that their SN child needs. Many have theirs in a community home, that they visit oh maybe once a week. Nice.
These people want to judge, but have truly never lived a day in you life. Fuck them!

PP, I am the one who suggested you look into Katie Beckett waiver. There should be comparable health care waivers available for you in VA. Do you know any social workers who may be able to direct you to some resources? What about your primary care physician? I know that Senator Jim Webb is working hard to help disabled children and their families, including extending eligibility for disabled children for Medicaid. I agree that the two resources previously linked in this thread are not what you need... but there are services that can really make a difference in your life - financially and practically speaking. I'll see if I can come with more ideas... stay tuned.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PP, are you in DC? If so, find out if your kids can qualify for Katie Beckett Health Care Waiver.
Big hugs, from another Mom with almost your exact same life. xxoo

Thanks but we're in NOVA. It's really frustrating when people say that having an SN child as bad as you think and there are resources out there to assist. There aren't. Those people are all about pregnancy and not about day-to-day life. The two organizations posters provided links to ( http://jillshouse.org/ and http://www.hopeinnova.org/ ) don't provide the kind of support I posted about needing. HOPE in Nova is all about 'crisis pregnancy' and Jill's House only accepts kids starting at age 6 and there's still a cost to the parents - and I also have one 'normal' child. It would be nice to be able to give her more time and to have money for her to do classes like ballet. I forgot to include the cost of relationship counseling for DH and I. Having SN kids has really put a strain on our relationship. I should just walk away from this thread.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PP, are you in DC? If so, find out if your kids can qualify for Katie Beckett Health Care Waiver.
Big hugs, from another Mom with almost your exact same life. xxoo

Thanks but we're in NOVA. It's really frustrating when people say that having an SN child as bad as you think and there are resources out there to assist. There aren't. Those people are all about pregnancy and not about day-to-day life. The two organizations posters provided links to ( http://jillshouse.org/ and http://www.hopeinnova.org/ ) don't provide the kind of support I posted about needing. HOPE in Nova is all about 'crisis pregnancy' and Jill's House only accepts kids starting at age 6 and there's still a cost to the parents - and I also have one 'normal' child. It would be nice to be able to give her more time and to have money for her to do classes like ballet. I forgot to include the cost of relationship counseling for DH and I. Having SN kids has really put a strain on our relationship. I should just walk away from this thread.

No one should think or assume that having a child with special needs is easy. And it's true you have more on your plate than people with only typically developing kids (although those take lots of time and money too, and can put a strain on marriage). But what is the counter argument here? Kids with disabilities don't deserve to be born because they may take more work? No one should talk about the positive aspects of children with disabilities because there are negatives too? Do you wish you had aborted your SN child? I mean maybe you do, and maybe in the context of your situation that makes sense. But it isn't obvious to me that because a person will take more work to raise, or care for, that they don't deserve to be alive. And if, even as a liberal, a person stands up for the rights of disabled kids, many people will say...that child shouldn't even be here, the parents should have aborted him. And also if you argue for the rights of kids with disabilities like Down syndrome to exist, or even just that the obvious solution to the diagnosis doesn't have to be termination, then you are called anti-choice, which I'm not. Abort a kid with Down syndrome, you have that right. But that doesn't mean I have to think it's always the best choice, and that doesn't mean it might not make it harder for kids with special needs who are already born.

I'm sorry you are struggling.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the PP, are you in DC? If so, find out if your kids can qualify for Katie Beckett Health Care Waiver.
Big hugs, from another Mom with almost your exact same life. xxoo

Thanks but we're in NOVA. It's really frustrating when people say that having an SN child as bad as you think and there are resources out there to assist. There aren't. Those people are all about pregnancy and not about day-to-day life. The two organizations posters provided links to ( http://jillshouse.org/ and http://www.hopeinnova.org/ ) don't provide the kind of support I posted about needing. HOPE in Nova is all about 'crisis pregnancy' and Jill's House only accepts kids starting at age 6 and there's still a cost to the parents - and I also have one 'normal' child. It would be nice to be able to give her more time and to have money for her to do classes like ballet. I forgot to include the cost of relationship counseling for DH and I. Having SN kids has really put a strain on our relationship. I should just walk away from this thread.

Anonymous wrote:To the PP, are you in DC? If so, find out if your kids can qualify for Katie Beckett Health Care Waiver.
Big hugs, from another Mom with almost your exact same life. xxoo

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

What is all this focus on "judging" in today's society? Everything is so relativistic. Guess what, people judge, and they judge all the time. You ran a red light? We judge in society that you did so, and that is wrong. You didn't hold a door for someone who was just walking behind you and it slammed in their face? We judge: "You were rude." Yet in this one issue, everyone goes around repeating hook line and sinker the PP/NARAL line, "Don't judge, don't judge, don't judge." Boy, they really sent a lot of folks down the river on this one.

Hey, judge all you want - no skin off my nose. Your opinion of me is completely irrelevant. Hysterical screeds like the OP's ("How could you DO such a thing") and diatribes from the holy-roller set don't make me second-guess myself. But when you switch from judging my choice to actively trying to strip the ability to make that choice from me - that's where I start to get cranky.

Actually, there are many potential choices that are restricted by various laws. Judges, judgments, opinions, etc limit our choices all the time. We don't get to do whatever we want in this ole world. Sorry.