21:32 Since you like test scores so much, I would place a bet any day on a DCPS/Charter school kid from a HHI/highly educated family over a kid from Arlington with the same demographic background. As a PP said, talk to me about how the two systems compare when you have an actual head to head comparison.

Nobody on DCUM would send their kid to a "bad" school including those of us who live in the District. Contrary to your belief, you can get your kid into a good school in DC but you have to be persistant and patient because DC's schools are in the midst of a renaissance. The current system is not for the faint-hearted but the options are getting better every year.

If you are going to send your kid to a publicly funded school in DC you have to put some work into the process. You can look at test scores and make a determination about a school based on that factor alone, but that's a lazy way to assess shools, particularly in DC.

Our neighborhood school's test scores were abysmal, however when I went to the school to visit, the facility was beautiful, the kids were sweet, the atmosphere was great and the teachers seemed very good. The school had many ESL students and the test scores reflected the difficulty of getting those children up the learning curve. It was not a "bad" school. As a matter of fact, the parents there were happy and very proud of their school.

Be careful not to judge because beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I'd bet that there is a Virginia parent at GDS that thinks people who send their kids to Arlington county schools are abusive .

Ultimately, through research and relentlessness, I was able to secure a spot at a school that turned out to be a better fit. However, my kids would have been fine at our neighborhood school. There was no boogey man there.

Many of us District parents have done a lot of research on DC schools and have dug beneath the numbers. I made an educated and informed decision when I placed my children in their current public charter. It is obvious that you believe Arlington schools are better. That's fine. Please move there if you haven't already. You will be much happier. In the meantime, stop trying to push the idea that no DC school compares to the schools in Arlington.

The other thing that cannot not be disregarded and should be used in an apples to apples comparison: school demographics.

Most, if not all DC schools are going to look way different when comparing to a suburban school. Give me a side-by-side performance comparison of schools with similar demographic profiles, then we can talk.

One thing that appears to be certain is that average HHI in a school often, though not always, leads to the desired outcomes. Many of us know that our children will be fine because of our SES, but we look to better their chances by seeking the highest performing, i.e. higher SES school environments we can find without over leveraging ourselves financially. DCPS and charters allow us to do that.

This is 21.32. I don't think I used west of the park schools in my post - did I? I agree that the Fairfax bit is probably not as pertinent here. My point was that you cannot in good conscience say that DC schoolchildren have options in form of charter schools, as these are purely driven by luck, and are not an option you can exercise at will.

Secondly, if availability of lottery-based options is an argument for staying with DCPS, then it's perfectly appropriate to note that Arlington, too, has plenty of lottery-based options. Someone said that VA kids would be stuck with their local school if they didn't like it, and I wanted to point out that's not the case.

Super happy with our Cap Hill life. My kids don't want to move to the suburbs. Brent is incredible. Really fabulous education. Older kid going to BASIS next year -- it's a really good fit and we love the location. Cant think of a reason to move to the burbs. Don't have a problem with those who do. Do have a problem with those who question the incredibly careful choices I make for my children and my family.

Then why did you first mention Wotp schools in your comparison? If you can't use lotteries as example of choice, you certainly can't use Tj as an example.

I don't understand why you say that children in DC have educational options when these options are all lottery-based. That's not an option. That's a dice roll. An option is something that's easily available.

Arlington also has "options", all lottery-based. Language immersion, science, traditional, Montessori. Fairfax has G&T, language immersion and TJ. So it's not accurate to say that Virginia children have no options if they don't like their IB.

I agree with you that test scores don't tell the whole story, but absence of (good) test scores doesn't, either. A school with atrocious test scores is not necessarily good in something else. Sometimes they are just bad all around. When we lived in DC, we were in Trinidad. I would have a real struggle to see what that failing IB school is good at.

Test scores are not the first thing I look at when comparing schools. So to answer your question, I am in a good charter that I feel is better than my BFF kid's school in Arlington. Goes back to a PP in saying it depends on who's doing the comparing. I would never judge my friend in Arlington and would hope that she would never judge me. In fact, when she comes to our school's events she admits she's a little envious. So me, I'll take my 75% performing charter over a 90% performing Arlington school. You just mentioned that your original post was to ask parents who were at bad DC schools, but that's not what I gathered - especially when you mention JKLM in the subject. I took the post as a "my school is better than yours and you're bad parents to live in the city." I like having the choice to attend charters over a school district where charters have autonomy to fire poor performing teachers. I like that my charter doesn't teach to the test but teaches independelearninging through creative exploration. I'm very confidant that if my charter were to teach to the test, they'd be in the 90s. Thankfully, test scores aren't my top priority.

Who on DCUM has their kid in a bad school? I live 2 blocks from a metro, owe only $250 K ony house, and my kids go to the best performing EOP elementary. Yes, middle school and high school are up in the air, but I don't need to have their whole future mapped out. We'll probably do Latin. My impression is that Brent to Latin is arguably better than Arlington. I love small schools and my kids seem to too.

Anonymous wrote:The discussion I started below ended up to have been moved to a different forum apparently, but I am still struggling with the issue of DC Public Schools v. Arlington Schools, so this subject should remain on this FORUM. If a mom is trying to figure out whether to stay in DC after living here for over 10 yeards, or whether to move to Arlington for the seemingly better, this should be the forum, no?

I still don't understand why, if Arlington school sare better..why do people still stay in DC? The architechure? The history? The politics?? Location, location, location.......What is it? Why stay in DC when none (yes, including upper NW schools) seem to compare to Arlington????????????????

http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/reply/75/213887.page

To stay away from bitchy moms like you.

Anonymous wrote:To 12:48, this is 11:54. Thanks for the clarification. I fully understand that there are parents in DC that get shut out of some of the good options for public schools in DC. If they can't afford private then moving may be their only option. But some can't afford to move at this time. Moving is expensive, moreover moving to the suburbs could mean an additional car expense among other things. I think posters need to be careful about bashing those parents who decide to stay. People stay for a variety of personal reasons. Moreover, those that leave often didn't consider schools that weren't WOP or a top charters. There are other good schools in DC that aren't talked about much on DCUM like Shepard elementary which is a solid school but majority middle class AA. DCs new gentrifiers often don't want their child to be the "only one." I understand the sentiment, but just because a school doesn't fit your cultural comfort zone doesn't mean that it isn't a good school ,or that it isn't a good option for another family in DC.

The OP said that none of DCs schools seem to compare to Arlington. I think it depends on who is doing the comparing.

You're right, I did base my premise on the ability to move, but, IIRC, none of the responding parents said their reason for not going to a better district was the inability to move. Among the reasons were that they liked their neighborhood, they didn't want an hour commute (in all fairness, my friends' commute downtown increased by only 15mins - from 20 mins to 35), they were hoping to get in lotteries, or just didn't like the idea of living in the 'burbs. I know this is going to sound judgmental, but those don't seem like legitimate reasons to put a child in a bad school. I can understand, though, if they can't afford to move but didn't want to admit it to the OP, so they came up with other reasons. To be honest, I never considered Arlington schools until I looked at the test scores, a direct result of this thread. While Shepard is a solid school, I'd think that most parents would prefer a school that scores in the 90's vs the 60's. I agree with a pp who said that some parents have different priorities. They and their children have to live with their choices; I don't. So, to each his own.

To 12:48, this is 11:54. Thanks for the clarification. I fully understand that there are parents in DC that get shut out of some of the good options for public schools in DC. If they can't afford private then moving may be their only option. But some can't afford to move at this time. Moving is expensive, moreover moving to the suburbs could mean an additional car expense among other things. I think posters need to be careful about bashing those parents who decide to stay. People stay for a variety of personal reasons. Moreover, those that leave often didn't consider schools that weren't WOP or a top charters. There are other good schools in DC that aren't talked about much on DCUM like Shepard elementary which is a solid school but majority middle class AA. DCs new gentrifiers often don't want their child to be the "only one." I understand the sentiment, but just because a school doesn't fit your cultural comfort zone doesn't mean that it isn't a good school ,or that it isn't a good option for another family in DC.

The OP said that none of DCs schools seem to compare to Arlington. I think it depends on who is doing the comparing.

Not everyone will want or value the same lifestyle. FWIW, we know several Asian families who left DC because the city wasn't a very friendly place for them. They felt more comfortable in VA or MD.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK, OP, you've convinced me. There are some parents in DC who would rather stay in the city and enroll their kids in inferior schools, roll the dice with lotteries, or take a chance on a new charter, rather than move.

Who determines what inferior is?

Just look at all the posts of parents saying the school their kid is in is "not their first choice" or they're dealing with it "for now" or they keep applying to lottery after lottery every year hoping they get into something better than their kid's already in. Does any of that make sense? If education is a priority, then move to a school district where your children can get a quality education.

As for determining what is superior and inferior, there are empirical ways to make that determination. They're called test scores.

You should be happy that all of us "inferior" DC parents and our "inferior" children are staying out of your obviously "superior" Virginia schools .

Now, back to reality...you can get a quality public education in DC. To say anything otherwise is ignorant because you would have to ignore the facts. I'm not going to get into the test score argument because there are plenty of threads that explain the role of socioeconomics on the test scores and how test scores do not tell the whole story. But if you insist on having a myopic view of DC schools because it makes you feel better about yourself and your choices, so be it.

The great part about public education in DC is that we have so many options now, no matter where you live in the city. And we have public options for language immersion schools, expiditionary schools, montessori schools and traditional schools. You may have to enter a lottery, and it may be frustrating, but you have options. In the suburbs if the neighborhood school isn't a good fit for your child your only other option is private (and we have that option too in DC).

The great part is, things are getting better here. We now not only have more middle school options but many of the aging facilities have been or are in the process of being repaired. I'm happy here and so are my kids and no we're not moving to Virginia for the schools.

You took what I stated beyond its scope. I'm not saying it's impossible to get a good education in DC. I'm limiting my comments to parents who are NOT in good schools in DC. They keep making excuses to stay and hope for the best. Why are you ignoring all the complaints from parents who do have children in low performing schools? Do you not read post after post of parents complaining about what's happening at their schools or that their IB school is "not an option" but they have no choice because of bad lottery results? (FWIW, friends of mine from Brookland rented out their house and are now renting in Fairfax because they were shut out of good school options. After a tough year in K, they decided not to chance it again and moved. This seems like a reasonable thing to do. I don't understand why parents stay and put their kids in bad schools, knowing they're bad schools, just for the sake of living in DC. (And I don't think DC children are inferior. I never even implied that. You're being overly sensitive. And BTW, I live in DC.)

12:21 I think you and the other poster whose marriage isn't recognized in VA have very valid reasons for staying in DC. I'd never suggest that a parent live somewhere that is potentially hostile to their families. My comments are soley for parents with children in schools they are not happy with, yet insist that living in DC is the only option.

Because we're an LGTB family and VA has some of the WORST laws on record for gay people. I don't really want to raise my kids in a state like that.

Because I don't want to commute an hour or more each day or pay so much more to live close to the metro. or be so far from them if anything happens.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK, OP, you've convinced me. There are some parents in DC who would rather stay in the city and enroll their kids in inferior schools, roll the dice with lotteries, or take a chance on a new charter, rather than move.

Who determines what inferior is?

Just look at all the posts of parents saying the school their kid is in is "not their first choice" or they're dealing with it "for now" or they keep applying to lottery after lottery every year hoping they get into something better than their kid's already in. Does any of that make sense? If education is a priority, then move to a school district where your children can get a quality education.

As for determining what is superior and inferior, there are empirical ways to make that determination. They're called test scores.

You should be happy that all of us "inferior" DC parents and our "inferior" children are staying out of your obviously "superior" Virginia schools .

Now, back to reality...you can get a quality public education in DC. To say anything otherwise is ignorant because you would have to ignore the facts. I'm not going to get into the test score argument because there are plenty of threads that explain the role of socioeconomics on the test scores and how test scores do not tell the whole story. But if you insist on having a myopic view of DC schools because it makes you feel better about yourself and your choices, so be it.

The great part about public education in DC is that we have so many options now, no matter where you live in the city. And we have public options for language immersion schools, expiditionary schools, montessori schools and traditional schools. You may have to enter a lottery, and it may be frustrating, but you have options. In the suburbs if the neighborhood school isn't a good fit for your child your only other option is private (and we have that option too in DC).

The great part is, things are getting better here. We now not only have more middle school options but many of the aging facilities have been or are in the process of being repaired. I'm happy here and so are my kids and no we're not moving to Virginia for the schools.