To the SAHM: )I am one too_) that have children in school, I am glad to read that there is still lots of stuff to do to fill your day, as I will most likely be a SAHM for a very long time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yep these threads always bring out the feminists to tell you you aren't a good mother or role model for your children unless you are career driven. Oh and that they are better people, more competent and enlightened. Anyone who stays at home is weak, controlled by their husband and so in the dark ages that it isn't even comprehensible.

And people wondered in the feminazi thread why some women don't identify as feminists.

I don't think these things (as a WOHM), but on the flip side, I also get sick of hearing from SAHMs how they are such better mothers than us. That isn't true either. Nor is it true that SAHMs pick up the slack from us WOHMs at schools, etc. That is almost laughable based on my experience (which of course isn't universal).

SAHM is a great choice for many families. It isn't a choice at all though for some families (where mom's income is needed to pay the bills) and in some cases, a person - like myself - just wants to keep her career.

I'm not sure how a lot of these posts are responsive to the OP and her concerns about her DP who seems to be an overwhelmed and quite possibly depressed and/or ADD SAHM.

Anonymous wrote:Yep these threads always bring out the feminists to tell you you aren't a good mother or role model for your children unless you are career driven. Oh and that they are better people, more competent and enlightened. Anyone who stays at home is weak, controlled by their husband and so in the dark ages that it isn't even comprehensible.

And people wondered in the feminazi thread why some women don't identify as feminists.

I don't think these things (as a WOHM), but on the flip side, I also get sick of hearing from SAHMs how they are such better mothers than us. That isn't true either. Nor is it true that SAHMs pick up the slack from us WOHMs at schools, etc. That is almost laughable based on my experience (which of course isn't universal).

SAHM is a great choice for many families. It isn't a choice at all though for some families (where mom's income is needed to pay the bills) and in some cases, a person - like myself - just wants to keep her career.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, what is your issue? So what if you hear the washing machine, some loads take longer then others. And so what if she picks up the kids toys when you're home, one could argue your kids should be doing that. Is something else going on? Does she seem depressed? I would be if I had to live with you, but aside from that, does she? You just seem very micromanaging from where I sit. You mention she hasn't done long term projects, what are these? And does the school day allow for them? What with Christmas and spring break and summer kids aren't in school all that long. Don't forget snow days and teacher workdays.

This is not a fair statement. I can't remember the last time I came home and wasn't walking over/on top of clothes strewn across the bedroom and hallway floor. More often than not, we are out of basic foods and I have to keep reminding her to go shopping. Our fridge hasn't been cleaned out since we were both working and had a housecleaner (which we now can't afford). I am often picking up the family room and I think I'm the only one that vacuums - ever. I put up the holiday decorations, I ordered, signed and mailed out our Christmas cards, I pay the bills, and I have signed our kids up for the afternoon activities (because she has missed a few deadlines in the past and I'm worried the kids will miss out if I don't do it.) If I were micromanaging, I'd have given her a "to-do" list and been on her back last year when this started. I've been overlooking it all and trying to pick up the pieces for a long time and am now just talking about it (even if it's on an anonymous forum). I am VERY laid back but am getting increasingly frustrated. It is hurting our relationship because it no longer feels like a partnership - it feels like everything is falling on my shoulders except babysitting the kids from 3-6 (when I get home) and doing the bare minimum when pushed and nagged and reminded a dozen times.

Clearly, my situation is not the normal SAHM situation - I see that.

I haven't read every post so forgive me if I'm repeating.

But OP, I sympathize. I'm more in your wife's shoes. My youngest just started kindergarten this year. We just moved here. But I'm having a hard time getting myself going. I waste a lot of time during the day. (I still do all the laundry and cooking and grocery shopping. And all the Christmas present shopping and all the cards. (though I only got to a few this year.) The thing is, I think I'm depressed. Staying home with kids is as rewarding as hell, but it's also very isolated. I don't have a routine here, I don't have friends. I want to go back to work or school, but it's hard to get away from the internet. My husband hasn't started nagging me. And I wouldn't want him to. But I would love it if he'd support me in getting my butt in gear. That is, if he'd talk to me seriously about his concern and maybe I could create my own goals and a plan for how to achieve them. (Or a schedule for hte week or whatever. Or ways to create a social life. whatever. I'd love his support, and then his checking in with me on it. I bet your wife doesn't feel good about how she's living. Maybe she could use a little therapy. But talk to her directly and lovingly about your feelings and say you feel unsupported and need her to step up. and ask if there's something else she'd rather be doing and brainstorm about how to get there. Maybe she'd rather be working and hire some help at home. Or something!

In these sort of debates, most of the responders seem to be really insecure in their choice...both SAHMs (They miss their careers, earning their own money and resent having to rely financially on DH. They are a bit insecure when around WOHMs and dread "work" conversations) and WOHMs (They hate their jobs but work because they have to. They secretly are jealous of SAHMs and wish they could do the same.).

I'm the mom of 4 and have done both. My job is not fulfilling, it's dreadfully boring and a trained monkey could probably do it. I don't work because I"m career-oriented, I work because we need the money and I also like interacting with adults in a work setting.

I also stayed at home various times throughout my children's lives. Most recently, for about a year when my DD was born (she's now 3). My older children were school-aged and, honestly, I was quite bored and spent a lot of time watching TV. Unless your child has special needs, doctor's appointments and/or illnesses don't happen that often. Home repairs (while headaches when they occur) are not frequent occurrences. All of the other things I did (laundry, bill-paying, cooking, cleaning/etc) were done when I did and didn't work, so I don't count that as things I wasn't able to do because I WOH.

With that said, I'm now at a point when I *really* don't want to work FT. At least not at a job that's in DC and my commute is close to 1.5 hours each way. I don't like getting home when it's already dark; feels like the day is gone and I haven't even interacted much with my children. A happy medium for me would be a FT job near my home (I'm aggressively pursuing this option) or working PT. I 100% don't want/need to be at home during the day; but would like to be home by 3-4PM.

OP, I hope your DP gets better soon. I agree with others that it sounds like depression. Please address this; it can have major consequences if left unchecked. Good luck.

Anonymous wrote:There is great value, studies show, in a parent being home after school during middle school and high school years. On a personal note, good Family friends, with 3 kids, all super kids (2 went to Harvard) but moreover they never got into too muCh trouble, but many of their friends did. We asked what they thought made the difference for them, and they said having mom at home after school and checking up on us with social stuff, etc.
THat really resonates with me and my own experience. It's a decision we have made for me to be home, especially during those yeArs and I feel extremely lucky. They may still screw up, but I have to think I'll see the signs earlier.

\

Actually, studies don't show this. At all. If all that is keeping your older kids from screwing up is you not working when they are in high school, you will have a major problem on your hands if they go to college. We've all seen the academic probation kids leave after freshman year. Why do teens need babysitting? Why aren't they in school? Sports or activities? Volunteering? What are they putting on their college apps if they aren't doing these things? There are so many factors that go into raising healthy, happy, well-adjusted kids. For most families this won't require babysitting teens.

Yep these threads always bring out the feminists to tell you you aren't a good mother or role model for your children unless you are career driven. Oh and that they are better people, more competent and enlightened. Anyone who stays at home is weak, controlled by their husband and so in the dark ages that it isn't even comprehensible.

And people wondered in the feminazi thread why some women don't identify as feminists.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Clearly, neither of you has my husband's job. Might you even consider that some people have jobs in which they are not able to take off the way you are as to? "

Then the other spouse is essentially forced to SAH or work pt, and hopefully the spouse with the inflexible job is being paid enough to compensate for the inflexibility.

Over $2 million per year. Yes, it's a worthwhile trade-off for us for a few years. I can still do some project work, but nothing that requires me to travel, work long hours on short notice, or work long hours regularly. Actually, I "could" do those things, but it would not make sense for us and he amount that we feel some parent should be available to our kids and for family issues. I'm no less competent than my friends who are currently working FT or PT because I stay home. We're doing what's best for our family, and what will allow us all the most flexibility in the near future.

I'm sure in your case that's correct. But for people not in the 99.5% of annual income, if you're a parent, you need to come up with ways to get flexibility. My DH and I both make about $100,000. Good salaries, but we still need to be flexible in our jobs if we are going to co parent. Your spouse's time is very clearly being bought by his employer and so of course at that income level he can't have any flexibility.

The last post quoted sounds like we all just have flexible arrangements available and we just aren't using them. I WISH I could have a 35 hr. a week job, a short commute and grandparents who could watch the kids or pick them up from school. As it turns out, I spent 10 hrs. per week commuting, have no relatives nearby, worked shift-work with NO flexibility and actually flew my mother into town (at $300 a pop) whenever DH's work scheduled travel (50% of the time the travel plans were cancelled within a week of the travel). I think we all know that it would be nice to have flexibility, but the reality is that we all don't have jobs or opportunities or support networks (or the income to pay for nannies) that allow two parents to work fulltime with limited stress. So, we all evaluate the costs/benefits and make our own plans.

I SO do not get these WOH women who feel the need to report that they are doing all of what I do as a SAHM and MORE! Do you want a prize? News flash here --- I'm not interested in competing with you! I'm doing life my way and you can do it yours. You probably claim to be a feminist, but actually, you're the complete opposite of a feminist b/c you want to choose for all women what we must do. It used to be that men decided for women that they would stay home. If you want to be a real feminist, then accept that your sisters can choose a different path than you and it's all good for all of us.

"PP you've given me great advice in both your posts. I think I was (am) feeling overwhelmed myself and didn't know where to start. The idea of taking baby steps to get things going is a good one and hopefully will help with our "groundhog" day routine. Actually, we have a lot to do for Christmas (some friends coming for Xmas eve dinner) and I've been extra frustrated with things not getting done - probably more because I'm worried about how I'm going to get it all done myself and she said to me just last night to please remind her - one at a time - of what she needs to do THAT DAY and if I didn't mind breaking it down for her. Like, today, clean the bathrooms. tomorrow, go shopping for xmas eve dinner....that kind of thing. I secretly wondered if she read this thread and maybe took to heart some of the more thoughtful and helpful posts such as yours. Anyway, it made me realize that she's probably struggling just as much and is really trying. "

Did you ask her why she felt she needed you to remind her? Why wouldn't she just make a list, with you, of what needs to be done? I can't tell if this is depression, ADD or simple lack of competence. Is she like this at the holidays every year?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Clearly, neither of you has my husband's job. Might you even consider that some people have jobs in which they are not able to take off the way you are as to? "

Then the other spouse is essentially forced to SAH or work pt, and hopefully the spouse with the inflexible job is being paid enough to compensate for the inflexibility.

Over $2 million per year. Yes, it's a worthwhile trade-off for us for a few years. I can still do some project work, but nothing that requires me to travel, work long hours on short notice, or work long hours regularly. Actually, I "could" do those things, but it would not make sense for us and he amount that we feel some parent should be available to our kids and for family issues. I'm no less competent than my friends who are currently working FT or PT because I stay home. We're doing what's best for our family, and what will allow us all the most flexibility in the near future.

I'm sure in your case that's correct. But for people not in the 99.5% of annual income, if you're a parent, you need to come up with ways to get flexibility. My DH and I both make about $100,000. Good salaries, but we still need to be flexible in our jobs if we are going to co parent. Your spouse's time is very clearly being bought by his employer and so of course at that income level he can't have any flexibility.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"........or that you can do everything that I do and more. "

Yes, that IS my point as a full time working mom. We didn't have to give up half of our household income to lower our stress. I own it, I do think people who can't both work and raise children may be less competent than I am.

What makes you think I "can't" do it? I did it for years and enjoy being home more right now. And I'm sufficient competent that I've offered three positions in the past year without even looking.

I didn't say that....I said "may be" less competent.

And a cherry tree may be taller or shorter than a peach tree. Your "may be" caveat doesn't take away from your obvious view that there's a correlation. I'm simply responding that it's not so in my case. As you say, own it.

Just because it's not true in your case doesn't mean it's not true generally.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"........or that you can do everything that I do and more. "

Yes, that IS my point as a full time working mom. We didn't have to give up half of our household income to lower our stress. I own it, I do think people who can't both work and raise children may be less competent than I am.

What makes you think I "can't" do it? I did it for years and enjoy being home more right now. And I'm sufficient competent that I've offered three positions in the past year without even looking.

I didn't say that....I said "may be" less competent.

And a cherry tree may be taller or shorter than a peach tree. Your "may be" caveat doesn't take away from your obvious view that there's a correlation. I'm simply responding that it's not so in my case. As you say, own it.

Anonymous wrote:"Clearly, neither of you has my husband's job. Might you even consider that some people have jobs in which they are not able to take off the way you are as to? "

Then the other spouse is essentially forced to SAH or work pt, and hopefully the spouse with the inflexible job is being paid enough to compensate for the inflexibility.

Over $2 million per year. Yes, it's a worthwhile trade-off for us for a few years. I can still do some project work, but nothing that requires me to travel, work long hours on short notice, or work long hours regularly. Actually, I "could" do those things, but it would not make sense for us and he amount that we feel some parent should be available to our kids and for family issues. I'm no less competent than my friends who are currently working FT or PT because I stay home. We're doing what's best for our family, and what will allow us all the most flexibility in the near future.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Once the kids walk through the door at 3pm it is all kids all the time until 8:30 0r 9pm. I have a 5 hr day right there! "

Gosh golly. How haaaard it is. I get the luxury of getting up at 6:15 am to get my older kids off to middle and high school, then working from 8 to 5. Pick the younger kid up from afterschool care at 5:30, then my "5 hour day" starts.

You sound like friends in law school who used to compete to win the title of Most Exhausted, Most Overworked, and the like. That's just silly. Why should some other family decide to fill their life with additional stress and commitments just because that's a badge you seem I think we should envy or emulate?

I don't think other families should add stress and commitments. I do think people should think before they post about a "5 hour workday" when there are obviously people working virtually all their waking hours - that's what I was reacting to, the obliviousness of some SAHMs to the realities of others' lives.

That was me and I meant that the 5 hr start time was already on the all day ( up at 5am for MS child most days.) of doing chores / household stuff for us. I guess I should have said that I work 1-2 days a week on call as well so I understand both. My point was to the OP that the day is very long and if you equate to a work day then 5 of those hours are being worked when he is home and maybe only three are being done during the day -- as an example only.

But , I apologize to the OP, as I got it wrong anyway. The first post sounded to me controlling and wanting her to be accountable. Since then I u derstand more and agree it sounds like depression. I am sorry for your family and hope she will get help. Hugs.

This is terrible to admit, but when I was in middle school and high school, I was really ashamed that my mom wasn't a professional. My friends moms had really cool jobs (District Attorney, doctor) and I felt embarassed that my mom didn't. I know in retrospect that the reason she didn't achieve more was that she was taking care of me, but at the time, I felt like it was embarassing. It is awful to admit, but that was how I felt.