Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
@17% of the IB population at Janney is non-white. And @95% of that 17% are biracial children who are black/white or asian/white.

I call bull. I'm a stats nerd and I've never seen stats publicized by DCPS that break out IB/OOB by race. What's your source?

Same question here. How do you know the biracial make-up (black/white asian/white)? Even when those stats are kept and not reported as other, it usually just states two or more races. Are you speaking from your visual observation?

When you are at a school for 10 years with multiple kids you really do get to know pretty much everyone. I am basing this on visuals and I have hosted 4 parent socials in my own house and attended 12 to 15 parent socials over the years--and been active in the PTA. The number might be off by a percentage point or 2 but they are accurate. Not to a stat nerd, but for the basis of this discussion these numbers are valid. Feel free to disregard them. I have no dog in the Hardy fight--we are an AU Park family IB for Janney and Deal and use both.

Translation: I know what I know - don't confuse me with facts.

Not at all. I was admitting that my evidence is based on my perception and personal knowledge--and it does take into account personal details about people actual racial backgrounds which is not reflected in the website statistics.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
@17% of the IB population at Janney is non-white. And @95% of that 17% are biracial children who are black/white or asian/white.

I call bull. I'm a stats nerd and I've never seen stats publicized by DCPS that break out IB/OOB by race. What's your source?

Same question here. How do you know the biracial make-up (black/white asian/white)? Even when those stats are kept and not reported as other, it usually just states two or more races. Are you speaking from your visual observation?

When you are at a school for 10 years with multiple kids you really do get to know pretty much everyone. I am basing this on visuals and I have hosted 4 parent socials in my own house and attended 12 to 15 parent socials over the years--and been active in the PTA. The number might be off by a percentage point or 2 but they are accurate. Not to a stat nerd, but for the basis of this discussion these numbers are valid. Feel free to disregard them. I have no dog in the Hardy fight--we are an AU Park family IB for Janney and Deal and use both.

Wow! Well, who can argue with that! Sounds pretty scientific and conclusive to me!!

The only question I have is why the 17% wasn't expanded to include a decimal point of precision. Surely if you can estimate to within 1% based on observations at parent socials you can get within 0.1%.

LOL!! Thanks - I need a laugh!!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
@17% of the IB population at Janney is non-white. And @95% of that 17% are biracial children who are black/white or asian/white.

I call bull. I'm a stats nerd and I've never seen stats publicized by DCPS that break out IB/OOB by race. What's your source?

Same question here. How do you know the biracial make-up (black/white asian/white)? Even when those stats are kept and not reported as other, it usually just states two or more races. Are you speaking from your visual observation?

When you are at a school for 10 years with multiple kids you really do get to know pretty much everyone. I am basing this on visuals and I have hosted 4 parent socials in my own house and attended 12 to 15 parent socials over the years--and been active in the PTA. The number might be off by a percentage point or 2 but they are accurate. Not to a stat nerd, but for the basis of this discussion these numbers are valid. Feel free to disregard them. I have no dog in the Hardy fight--we are an AU Park family IB for Janney and Deal and use both.

Wow! Well, who can argue with that! Sounds pretty scientific and conclusive to me!!

The only question I have is why the 17% wasn't expanded to include a decimal point of precision. Surely if you can estimate to within 1% based on observations at parent socials you can get within 0.1%.

Anonymous wrote:remember Lafayette is Ward 4

I totally forgot about that.

Dr. Kim changed every molecule of the school! So sorry to see her go!!!!

remember Lafayette is Ward 4

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
@17% of the IB population at Janney is non-white. And @95% of that 17% are biracial children who are black/white or asian/white.

I call bull. I'm a stats nerd and I've never seen stats publicized by DCPS that break out IB/OOB by race. What's your source?

Same question here. How do you know the biracial make-up (black/white asian/white)? Even when those stats are kept and not reported as other, it usually just states two or more races. Are you speaking from your visual observation?

When you are at a school for 10 years with multiple kids you really do get to know pretty much everyone. I am basing this on visuals and I have hosted 4 parent socials in my own house and attended 12 to 15 parent socials over the years--and been active in the PTA. The number might be off by a percentage point or 2 but they are accurate. Not to a stat nerd, but for the basis of this discussion these numbers are valid. Feel free to disregard them. I have no dog in the Hardy fight--we are an AU Park family IB for Janney and Deal and use both.

Wow! Well, who can argue with that! Sounds pretty scientific and conclusive to me!!

Anonymous wrote:
To your broader point, "You cannot limit Deal to Ward 3 feeder schools and continue to maintain diversity," sure you can. Go back to this list:
Bancroft 7% white
Eaton 39% white
Hearst 22% white
Janney 69% white
Lafayette 71% white
Murch 63% white
Oyster-Adams 28% white
Shepherd 6% white

Ward 3 is more diverse than you think. Only three of those schools are whiter than Deal as a whole (and only two Ward 3 schools), and while those three have essentially ceased accepting OOB kids -- 27 this year, out of a combined enrollment of 1704 -- they are still more diverse than the country as a whole or the region as a whole. A Deal with a smaller attendence area may not be as diverse as you want -- and it may not be the kind of diversity you want -- but it would be diverse.

According to the 2010 census, the white population of Ward 3 is 83.5%. The black population is 5.0%. Ward 3 is exactly as diverse as I think. This discussion has become a bit ridiculous because you have started either cherry-picking or misrepresenting data. Of the list above, Bancroft is in Ward 1, Shepherd is in Ward 4, and Oyster-Adams is not a feeder school.

That leaves the following schools:

Eaton 39% white, 36% in-boundary
Hearst 22% white, 19% in-boundary
Janney 69% white, 86% in-boundary
Lafayette 71% white, 88% in-boundary
Murch 63% white, 78% in-boundary

So, in each case (with the possible exception of Janney which has nearly 10% mixed raced), the white population of the school corresponds to the in-boundary registration. So, again, diversity comes as a result of OOB students, regardless of the grade in which they enter the school. I can't believe there is any argument about this. On top of that, Hearst -- which is the most diverse of the bunch -- is only about half the size of the others. Eaton is the second smallest. If you limit Deal to its Ward 3 feeders, there is no way you will be able to retain its current diversity and without OOB students there would be almost no diversity at all. If anyone believes that you can take a school that is nearly 40% black and turn it to 5%-10% black and still consider it to be diverse (given the realities of Washington, DC), they are living on a different planet than me.

thanks for the detailed analysis. Another source of diversity for Deal feeder schools is NCLB transfers, remember the thread about large buses in neighborhoods?

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You misunderstand the OOB lottery. Nobody is getting into a Ward 3 school in Pre-K in the OOB lottery. The lottery has four tiers -- IB w/sibling, IB w/o sibling, OOB w/sibling and OOB w/o sibling. For Pre-K they're not required to take all of the in-boundary kids, and typically what happens is that all the IB kids with siblings get in, and a few of the IB w/o siblings.

Where the OOB kids are getting into the Ward 3 schools is in grades 3-5, as spaces open up as kids peel off for private school.

Not according to the lottery results on the DCPS website. It probably varies by school, but the ones I checked showed a lot more OOB slots filled in pre-K then upper grades. However, if it will make you feel better, I'll concede the point which is tangential to my main argument. You cannot limit Deal to Ward 3 feeder schools and continue to maintain diversity.

Well, your comment was in the context of the three in-boundary feeder schools that are whiter than Deal as a whole, so let's look. From lottery.dcps.dc.gov:

pre-K
Janney: 57 IB admitted, 44 IB waitlisted, 256 OOB waitlisted
Murch: 56 IB admitted, 25 IB waitlisted, 368 OOB waitlisted
Lafayette: 77 IB admitted, 25 IB waitlisted, 282 OOB waitlisted

Granted, these are the initial lottery results, and there is some waitlist movement -- but not 25 spots. No OOB kids are getting into pre-K at any of those schools.

Where are the OOB admissions?

Janney -- K--1, 1st -- 1, 2nd -- 3, 3rd -- 5, 4th -- 0, 5th -- 1
Murch -- K --0, 1st -- 0, 2nd -- 0, 3rd -- 0, 4th -- 3, 5th -- 13
Lafayette -- K --0, 1st --0, 2nd -- 0, 3rd -- 0, 4th -- 0, 5th -- 0

So the three schools admitted a total of 27 kids in the OOB lottery this year, and 22 of them -- 81% -- were in grades 3-5.

To your broader point, "You cannot limit Deal to Ward 3 feeder schools and continue to maintain diversity," sure you can. Go back to this list:
Bancroft 7% white
Eaton 39% white
Hearst 22% white
Janney 69% white
Lafayette 71% white
Murch 63% white
Oyster-Adams 28% white
Shepherd 6% white

Ward 3 is more diverse than you think. Only three of those schools are whiter than Deal as a whole (and only two Ward 3 schools), and while those three have essentially ceased accepting OOB kids -- 27 this year, out of a combined enrollment of 1704 -- they are still more diverse than the country as a whole or the region as a whole. A Deal with a smaller attendence area may not be as diverse as you want -- and it may not be the kind of diversity you want -- but it would be diverse.

Anonymous wrote:

You misunderstand the OOB lottery. Nobody is getting into a Ward 3 school in Pre-K in the OOB lottery. The lottery has four tiers -- IB w/sibling, IB w/o sibling, OOB w/sibling and OOB w/o sibling. For Pre-K they're not required to take all of the in-boundary kids, and typically what happens is that all the IB kids with siblings get in, and a few of the IB w/o siblings.

Where the OOB kids are getting into the Ward 3 schools is in grades 3-5, as spaces open up as kids peel off for private school.

Not according to the lottery results on the DCPS website. It probably varies by school, but the ones I checked showed a lot more OOB slots filled in pre-K then upper grades. However, if it will make you feel better, I'll concede the point which is tangential to my main argument. You cannot limit Deal to Ward 3 feeder schools and continue to maintain diversity.

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Deal Feeders:
Bancroft 7% white
Eaton 39% white
Hearst 22% white
Janney 69% white
Lafayette 71% white
Murch 63% white
Oyster-Adams 28% white
Shepherd 6% white

Most of those schools only have diversity as a result of OOB enrollment. As the current OOB students graduate, the west of the park Deal feeders will become less diverse. In fact, were it not for the pre-K lottery, these schools already would have almost no OOB students and -- given the make-up of the inbound neighborhoods, would be almost entirely white.

The schools with inbound diversity -- Bancroft, Shepherd and Oyster-Adams -- are precisely the schools that would be zoned out if Deal's boundaries were consolidated within Ward 3. The same is true for areas included within the Deal boundaries that are zoned for elementary schools that are not Deal feeders. For instance, Crestwood is zoned for West and Powell for elementary, but Deal for middle school. If you eliminate the non-Ward 3 areas, you are left with schools whose inbound enrollment is almost entirely white. I believe that you and I agree on this point. But, you seem to be counting on the pre-K lottery to continue to provide diversity. Something I am not sure will always be true.

I agree with you that the political situation in DC -- not just DCPC -- is such that we shouldn't expect anything more than a disastrous solution. As a result, no change is greatly preferable.

You misunderstand the OOB lottery. Nobody is getting into a Ward 3 school in Pre-K in the OOB lottery. The lottery has four tiers -- IB w/sibling, IB w/o sibling, OOB w/sibling and OOB w/o sibling. For Pre-K they're not required to take all of the in-boundary kids, and typically what happens is that all the IB kids with siblings get in, and a few of the IB w/o siblings.

Where the OOB kids are getting into the Ward 3 schools is in grades 3-5, as spaces open up as kids peel off for private school.

Kim has been fighting to keep a racial diversity for Deal. Will the new principal, when selected, do the same?

Anonymous wrote:Under DCPS categorization, "white" people cannot also be "Hispanic." You have to pick one or the other (which is absurd, but that's another topic).

So that fact could be contributing to -some- student bodies that look whiter than the DCPS pie chart would suggest.

ie, in my son's class, there is a Caucasian snowy-"white" child whose Mom was born in Buenos Aires. Dad is from Midwest. DCPS considers him non-white and part of the 32% not-white kids in 12:08's example. Even though he is pale like a sheet, lighter-complected than my kid and -- the clincher -- speaks not one word of Spanish.

Wonder what his parents classified him as. I would disclose as 2 or more races. I wouldn't just pick white or hispanic. My DS is also biracial.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
@17% of the IB population at Janney is non-white. And @95% of that 17% are biracial children who are black/white or asian/white.

I call bull. I'm a stats nerd and I've never seen stats publicized by DCPS that break out IB/OOB by race. What's your source?

Same question here. How do you know the biracial make-up (black/white asian/white)? Even when those stats are kept and not reported as other, it usually just states two or more races. Are you speaking from your visual observation?

When you are at a school for 10 years with multiple kids you really do get to know pretty much everyone. I am basing this on visuals and I have hosted 4 parent socials in my own house and attended 12 to 15 parent socials over the years--and been active in the PTA. The number might be off by a percentage point or 2 but they are accurate. Not to a stat nerd, but for the basis of this discussion these numbers are valid. Feel free to disregard them. I have no dog in the Hardy fight--we are an AU Park family IB for Janney and Deal and use both.

Translation: I know what I know - don't confuse me with facts.